223 case headspace

[ma96782]

Or....you could/might/maybe try using a gauge like this one. Of course, use the CORRECT one.

Lyman Case Length Headspace Ga 270 Winchester

The Lyman Case Length Headspace Gauge is perfect for reloaders looking to achieve the highest degree of safety and accuracy. Lyman recommends that all...

ads.midwayusa.com

You can use it to test every single piece of brass or you may just do it after every couple of shells. Up to you. Though I'd suspect that it it's faster, easier and will give you GOOD ENOUGH results (especially when speaking of plinking ammo in a semi auto).

Aloha, Mark

PS.....IMHO, it's also good to re-check your die settings.....every time you set up your dies again. Yeah, I don't trust the "lock rings".

 

[dangerranger60]

Bumping the shoulder is a normal part of full length sizing. Adjusting that bump is also a part of setting your die. If you dont want the shoulder resized you would have to go to a neck size only die. That die will give you the longest brass life, because it does not change the shoulder dimentions of your fire formed brass. It only re sizes the neck.
If I only had one 223 I would neck size only.
One of the things you can do to check this is measure a fireformed case and then resize it. Then you will know how much your die is set to reduce your case. Then adjust accordingly.
If I only had the one 223 and brass was a concern I would set my full length die to just touch the shoulder but not really move it. I have several 223's so I set mine to min size. that lets my ammo work equally well in bolt action , single shot Handi rifles, or an AR, without any issues.

When you are making such small adjustments, I use the depth guage on my calipers. The markings on the lock rings are really just whitness marks. Good Luck DR

 

[Koda]

Bumping the shoulder is a normal part of full length sizing. Adjusting that bump is also a part of setting your die.

I knew its part of full length sizing just not controlling the bump all the time, I assumed it was better to fully use the die for semi autos. My last attempts at shoulder bumping were frustrating, I was looking forward to not worrying about it in a semi auto. I need to spend some time watching youtube on it I dont really want to buy the Redding competition shell holders for my 223 project but will if I have to.
When I try to dia the die back just a couple thou it seems its never consistent.

 

[Steel Head]

Im assuming the Hornady gauge measures the same datum point saami is?

I was wanting to avoid shoulder bumping since Im loading for a semi auto. What Im going to check now is if cam over is affecting this vs setting the die so it just firmly touches the ram per Redding instruction.

The Redding dies are supposed to assure it will fit a minimum chamber, so maybe it makes sense the result is under saami spec and it doesnt hurt anything?

They generally aren't perfect

That's why it's a comparator and not a gauge.

Use the Hornandy to measure your fired brass against your sized brass and get the shoulder setback you desire.

Remember that hardness, dwell time in die and lubricant are all important factors in consistent sizing.

If your not controlling those getting a good die setting is frustrating.

 

[Koda]

Remember that hardness, dwell time in die and lubricant are all important factors in consistent sizing.

If your not controlling those getting a good die setting is frustrating

Im working on finding this, its much harder to be consistent... I can get a couple of cases with the same bumb but then the next few will come out way different usually bumped too far..

 

[DizzyJ]

Im working on finding this, its much harder to be consistent... I can get a couple of cases with the same bumb but then the next few will come out way different usually bumped too far..

Same headstamp, lot# and number of times fired?

 

[DizzyJ]

And how much difference are we talking?

 

[Koda]

Yes, i sort brass by mfg, times fired.
Im at work and dont have my notes but ive measured fireformed brass, then try to set the die back 2 or 3 thou and it can be accurate for a few cases but will eventually bump more like 5 thou or more.
I went thru this with my 2506 and so I bought the Redding Competition shell holders.... That helped but still got variations but at least there I knew it wasnt the die setup. I found with that all I needed to use was the -.010" holder to bump the shoulder the least and each case easily fit the chamber.

But right now, I dont have a Redding die set for 223. I tried bumpig last night and the measuerments were all over so I stopped. Might as well have just camed over on the batch, everything would have been the same.

 

[dangerranger60]

Koda, are you anealing your cases? I ask because brass hardness effects spring back, [ a softer anealed case won't spring back as much as a work hardened one.] And when you are trying to eliminate the variables this will go along way to making your cases have the least variations. DR

 

[Koda]

Koda, are you anealing your cases? I ask because brass hardness effects spring back, [ a softer anealed case won't spring back as much as a work hardened one.] And when you are trying to eliminate the variables this will go along way to making your cases have the least variations. DR

This is yet another rabbit hole I need to go down.... I dont have an annealer. The only way I can anneal right now (and based on the cost for a while....) is by hand with a propane torch.

I did a sample of 5 rounds this way, carefully to assure even anneal and time. That sample shrunk my group size. I want to do this for all now but hesitate doing this by hand. Id like to test another sample batch.... But want the shoulder bump consistent too. Maybe these two things are intertwined..... ?
Im low on brass to play with... Will buy more.

 

[dangerranger60]

annealing is the only way you will be totally consistent.
I anneal by hand, using a propane torch and a metronome to time them. I rotate the case in a 9/16" deep socket and a drill motor.
look for a product called Templaque. it paints on the inside of the neck of a case and you time the annealing to end just as the templaque flows out. I do a couple cases to be sure my timing is right. You can get a metronome app for your phone, but I like the old style better. This is how I do it. The annealing machines are timed the same way [ using templaque paint]. DR

 

[Koda]

What temperature does brass anneal at?

Tempilaq Temperature Indicator 650 Degree 2oz

This non-flammable, quick-drying fluid dries to a dull matte finish then liquefies when the rated temperature is reached. When rated temperature is...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[dangerranger60]

I look for 650 to 700 deg F. This is just a range not an exact temp. Annealing starts at 500 deg. but to get the result we want at 500 deg. you would have to hold it at that temp for a while. At 650 to 700 I can quench as soon as it reaches that temp. I don't let them air cool because that lets the heat travel down the case farther. Good Luck DR

 

[DizzyJ]

What temperature does brass anneal at?

Tempilaq Temperature Indicator 650 Degree 2oz

This non-flammable, quick-drying fluid dries to a dull matte finish then liquefies when the rated temperature is reached. When rated temperature is...

www.midwayusa.com

I believe I have read it's variable. Time is one of the elements. Hotter for a shorter period of time or a little cooler for a longer treatment. Obviously within a reasonable frame of reference.

I think some of the induction annealers get hotter but only for a second or two.

Here's some information on the subject from those who've done a lot of research about it.

Induction Annealing Brass | Our Research | AMP

View the latest articles from AMP Annealing. Get tips and tricks from our R&D. Here we upload articles to provide your the best possible information on innovations in the annealing process.

www.ampannealing.com

 

[Koda]

Some good info and reading I will bookmark and soak in. For now Ive splurged again on other reloading supplies so it will be a while before I can consider a real annealing machine. I will probably try some DIY hand annealing separately from other batches and see how they do over a few range sessions compared to not annealing and decide from there for now. I did pick up a supply of new brass this week so I have plenty to experiment with

 

[Steel Head]

What temperature does brass anneal at?

Tempilaq Temperature Indicator 650 Degree 2oz

This non-flammable, quick-drying fluid dries to a dull matte finish then liquefies when the rated temperature is reached. When rated temperature is...

www.midwayusa.com

You don't need that stuff
The brass will tell you when it's had enough heat.

 

[cvstac]

A big difference between Saami and Hornady is where they measure the shoulder at. I am bumping my .223 .003" - .004" and end up at 1.449". I would base your measurements off of cases fired from your chamber and adjust the die accordingly.

Does that mean a case measuring 1.530 is okay to shoot? I'm having the same problem. Some of the brass ranges from 1.525 to 1.620. I'm shooting out of a 5.56 barrel. The fired brass I have from it measured 1.566.

 

[cvstac]

A big difference between Saami and Hornady is where they measure the shoulder at. I am bumping my .223 .003" - .004" and end up at 1.449". I would base your measurements off of cases fired from your chamber and adjust the die accordingly.

Does that mean it's safe to do 1.530? My brass varies from 1.525 to 1.620. I am shooting out of a 5.56 barrel and the headspace measurement from a fired brass is 1.565. Is the brass at the lower end okay to use or do I toss it?

 

[arrowshooter]

Using your tools, what does new ammo measure?