20-Somethings Fueling a Stick-Shift Renaissance

[ilikegunspdx]

My son is 2 weeks away from getting his permit.

I have been actively seeking out MT vehicles for a few reasons:

-I prefer MT, and since my commute went from 37 miles on I-5 in soul-crushing Seattle traffic to a 7 minute back-roads drive, I can now get a MT again
-Many, Many of the newer vehicles I am looking at (2007-2015) have automatic transmissions with a bad reputation but the rest of the vehicle is solid. This seem to begin when manufacturers moved out of 4AT and into CVTs and more than 4 gear automatics...
-Less likely to be stolen.
-Might force my son to focus on the driving, as it demands involvement.
-I have noticed MT versions of vehicles are slightly less expensive, and I feel if I pursue one I might be able to negotiate further savings...

So far, I have been very interested in the newer Accords with the 6MT (well, 2008 and up, I guess that's new to me), I have found a few Nissan Frontier 4WD V6 trucks with 6MT....
Getting a 10 year old vehicle with over 100K on it is a daunting search, vehicle prices are still too high, but by going with MT I can reduce the maintenance costs and probably get a good deal

It'd be nice to find something new enough that it has all the airbags, including curtains....

I haven't been paying much attention to what are still stick shifts but I seem to see Subarus with stick shifts (probably pre cvt tranny). Other than that it's performance oriented cars like some bmws and oddballs like early Audi tt (which are almost exclusively manual) that I have seen. Also audi S4, S5.

Re reliability on tranny just depends on 2 things: who built it, and was it maintained well. Some brands are notorious for bad auto trannies and a few are known to be long lived. Have had several autos with over 200k on original tranny but they were maintained properly. Have one right now with 366k on original tranny (Toyota) and shifts literally like new. It has been well maintained.

 

[Krinkov]

When a 0.5% increase in sales = stick shift renaissance, it's clickbait nonsense

 

[ATCclears]

@ilikegunspdx the Subaru Crosstrek offers a manual transmission in some models. I recently got the wife a new Crosstrek - we wanted the 2.5L engine and a manual transmission, but Subaru only offers the combo of the 2.0L engine and the manual transmission.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

@ilikegunspdx the Subaru Crosstrek offers a manual transmission in some models. I recently got the wife a new Crosstrek - we wanted the 2.5L engine and a manual transmission, but Subaru only offers the combo of the 2.0L engine and the manual transmission.

Nice! I think all the Subaru 4 cylinders are great based on past experience and history anyway. 6 cylinder was/is more troublesome. Suggest changing the coolant more often than recommended though just in case. Seems like they have been battling head gasket issues for 35 years or so. When I say "issues" I mean head gasket failure at 175-250kish miles, so it's not really an "issue", more like the weakest spot in an incredibly robust design. I suspect that nearly all of those were from folks who didn't change the coolant regularly but just a guess. Had one friend that had a Impreza that had around 225k miles on it. I asked him when the last time he changed the oil was. He said "never". He had it for like 12-15 years. He said he never changed anything and never had it worked on. Crazy!

 

[made in china]

When a 0.5% increase in sales = stick shift renaissance, it's clickbait nonsense

I feel that small bump was more attributed to people trying to find something cheaper as vehicle prices have exploded

 

[Provincial]

I haven't been paying much attention to what are still stick shifts but I seem to see Subarus with stick shifts (probably pre cvt tranny). Other than that it's performance oriented cars like some bmws and oddballs like early Audi tt (which are almost exclusively manual) that I have seen. Also audi S4, S5.

Re reliability on tranny just depends on 2 things: who built it, and was it maintained well. Some brands are notorious for bad auto trannies and a few are known to be long lived. Have had several autos with over 200k on original tranny but they were maintained properly. Have one right now with 366k on original tranny (Toyota) and shifts literally like new. It has been well maintained.

Ditto on this.

I have a 2001 Ford F250. It came with the troublesome "mechanical diode" version of the 4R100transmission. I bought it with 270,000 miles on it, almost all from being a Ford lease, so I got a complete maintenance history, and the transmission had never been worked on, but serviced on the factory schedule.

At 320,000 miles, I figured that it was better to fix it before it failed, bought a core transmission, and overhauled that one, addressing the known weaknesses with upgraded parts. I swapped out the old one, and didn't even look inside. It was still working just fine.

 

[made in china]

Nice! I think all the Subaru 4 cylinders are great based on past experience and history anyway. 6 cylinder was/is more troublesome. Suggest changing the coolant more often than recommended though just in case. Seems like they have been battling head gasket issues for 35 years or so. When I say "issues" I mean head gasket failure at 175-250kish miles, so it's not really an "issue", more like the weakest spot in an incredibly robust design. I suspect that nearly all of those were from folks who didn't change the coolant regularly but just a guess. Had one friend that had a Impreza that had around 225k miles on it. I asked him when the last time he changed the oil was. He said "never". He had it for like 12-15 years. He said he never changed anything and never had it worked on. Crazy!

I wouldn't minimize the severity of the Subaru head gasket problem. There was one engine type they used from the early 2000's to a few years ago, it was called the EJ25__ the suffix denoting what state of tune or if it's one of the turbo engines used in the WRX and certain other models. They are notorious for blowing head gasket. My wife had a 2007 Impreza that was lemon-lawed for airbag issues, then we leased a 2008 Impreza and it's head gasket failed at the end of the lease (42 month lease, 42k miles). We also had a Saab 9-2x that head gasket did last longer, but around 100k it was finally leaking.

I did find a 2008 Subaru Outback wagon with the turbo engine and a 6MT that I'm going to look at, if the head gaskets have been done recently, I can consider it, supposedly the issue has been greatly improved with upgraded/revised gaskets that recently were introduced.

Any of the newer Subarus, especially the years with CVT option, no longer use the EJ motor, and the new motor doesn't seem to have this issue. But, the new motor only began to be introduced in 2012, and didn't make it's way into all models for a few years.

 

[Provincial]

Replacing a clutch on modern vehicles, especially Front Wheel Drive, is a major project. That said, they rarely fail, but it is an issue when buying used.

My SIL had an automatic transmission fail on a 2001 Accord recently, and it was more practical to sell the car for salvage (someone bought it as a project, since it was straight and well-maintained) than repair/replace the transmission.

 

[Provincial]

While I never owned one, I remember that people I knew with Subarus in the mid-1970's often had head gasket problems. It has been a weak point for a long time!

 

[made in china]

I haven't been paying much attention to what are still stick shifts but I seem to see Subarus with stick shifts (probably pre cvt tranny). Other than that it's performance oriented cars like some bmws and oddballs like early Audi tt (which are almost exclusively manual) that I have seen. Also audi S4, S5.

Re reliability on tranny just depends on 2 things: who built it, and was it maintained well. Some brands are notorious for bad auto trannies and a few are known to be long lived. Have had several autos with over 200k on original tranny but they were maintained properly. Have one right now with 366k on original tranny (Toyota) and shifts literally like new. It has been well maintained.

Transmission reliability is all over the place.
All Nissan CVT are Jatco, and complete rubbish. But Nissan 5AT used in their RWD/4WD vehicles of the same era are some of the best transmission ever made.
Early Honda 5AT were nicknamed "glass transmission" weren't sorted out until 06-07, they ruined Honda reputation for 5 years prior.

Ford "Power shift" DCT used in Focus and Fiesta must be avoided at all costs. It was never resolved.

Pretty much only Toyota can be trusted, but they resisted CVT longer than most manufacturers. They still sold 4AT in the Corolla until 2018, current 4Runner still uses the old 5AT, and most mainstream Toyota cars still use a reliable 6AT.

Our 2020 Corolla has a dual mode CVT, it has a torque converter and physical 1st gear, "2nd gear" is the CVT, jury's out on if it'll be reliable

 

[made in china]

Replacing a clutch on modern vehicles, especially Front Wheel Drive, is a major project. That said, they rarely fail, but it is an issue when buying used.

My SIL had an automatic transmission fail on a 2001 Accord recently, and it was more practical to sell the car for salvage (someone bought it as a project, since it was straight and well-maintained) than repair/replace the transmission.

I can replace a transmission on that particular car, in my driveway, on jackstands, in a day.
The problem with your sil relation wasn't that the car is difficult to service, but modern costs for repairs have skyrocketed. Also, it's so expensive to find good junkyard parts now. That's the generation of Honda that had transmission issues, not many good used ones left.
I have been recently quoted $12k to replace the cats on my truck, an independent shop wanted $9k to do it.. I couldn't believe it. I paid $2k for the parts (4 cats) and I'll do it myself.

Everything seems to be set up for "it's just better to replace it with new" these days. I don't like crawling around on the driveway to fix my machines, but to save $7-10k to keep my beloved truck on the road, I'll do it.

 

[Provincial]

I can replace a transmission on that particular car, in my driveway, on jackstands, in a day.
The problem with your sil relation wasn't that the car is difficult to service, but modern costs for repairs have skyrocketed. Also, it's so expensive to find good junkyard parts now. That's the generation of Honda that had transmission issues, not many good used ones left.
I have been recently quoted $12k to replace the cats on my truck, an independent shop wanted $9k to do it.. I couldn't believe it. I paid $2k for the parts (4 cats) and I'll do it myself.

Everything seems to be set up for "it's just better to replace it with new" these days. I don't like crawling around on the driveway to fix my machines, but to save $7-10k to keep my beloved truck on the road, I'll do it.

I agree. My SIL is not capable of doing the work himself, and I'm overbooked on my own work.

I've saved 100's of thousands of $$$ repairing my personal and business equipment. Latest was spending about $20.00 on parts and 12 hours of time repairing the steering gear on a front end loader. A used unit costs $2,500.00.

 

[made in china]

I agree. My SIL is not capable of doing the work himself, and I'm overbooked on my own work.

I've saved 100's of thousands of $$$ repairing my personal and business equipment. Latest was spending about $20.00 on parts and 12 hours of time repairing the steering gear on a front end loader. A used unit costs $2,500.00.

It seems that there used to be a time when repair costs were more "reasonable". I used to do my own repairs because I am capable and I enjoyed it (also a former ASE tech). A few years before the pandemic, I actually was paying trustworthy local shops to service my vehicle. I only paid $500 to have a water pump replaced with OEM on my previous Maxima. I felt it was a fair deal.
Fast forward 10 years and I took my truck to the same shop, he is overwhelmed with work because no one can afford a new car and they're having their old cars repaired, he's ready to retire, and he straight told me he didn't know when he could get to my truck.

I do feel too old to be crawling around under a vehicle, but I gotta get back into it. Otherwise, I'll be feeling REAL inflation.... the only other choice is a new vehicle, and I think it's been reported they've increased about 40% in transaction price the last 3 years......

 

[teflon6string]

Motorcycles aside, Mrs. Teflon and I normally own 3 vehicles. His, hers and a beater truck with a V8 for hauling/towing/dumping. We both really enjoy driving a clutch so we're open to that if the right fun car comes along. The truck, however, will always be automatic, which I prefer on boat ramps.

A friend of ours insists on a clutch, always, and ended up with a garishly ugly purple Honda. Turns out it's the only color that dealers could finally locate for her - after looking for months.

That same friend's daughter had an Outback with a clutch for a while and got rid of it (I forget what year it was). I drove it and, seriously, first gear was super tall - like second on any other vehicle. Downright awkward in parking lots and driveways.

Choices for stick/clutch cars today are scant (at least in non-sports car sectors). A tiny fraction of what they always were until about 10-20 years ago.

 

[Provincial]

Years ago business found that finding someone who could drive a stick-shift truck was becoming difficult. That lead to automatics taking over the light vocational (construction, delivery, etc.) market, leaving heavy trucks the only segment that still has a large proportion of manual transmissions.

 

[Provincial]

It seems that there used to be a time when repair costs were more "reasonable". I used to do my own repairs because I am capable and I enjoyed it (also a former ASE tech). A few years before the pandemic, I actually was paying trustworthy local shops to service my vehicle. I only paid $500 to have a water pump replaced with OEM on my previous Maxima. I felt it was a fair deal.
Fast forward 10 years and I took my truck to the same shop, he is overwhelmed with work because no one can afford a new car and they're having their old cars repaired, he's ready to retire, and he straight told me he didn't know when he could get to my truck.

I do feel too old to be crawling around under a vehicle, but I gotta get back into it. Otherwise, I'll be feeling REAL inflation.... the only other choice is a new vehicle, and I think it's been reported they've increased about 40% in transaction price the last 3 years......

My second career was in General Aviation. I quickly learned that the only way for a business to survive in that sector was to do most, or all, the maintenance in-house. Specialized and major repairs were mostly outsourced because of skills and/or equipment needed, but they were not often needed.

 

[Alexx1401]

I feel that small bump was more attributed to people trying to find something cheaper as vehicle prices have exploded

That would make sense. The one I bought I only chose because they had cut the price so much due to no one wanting one. I am sure several others did the same thing when they saw one deeply discounted just because of being manual.

 

[made in china]

I told my wife that I plan to get a MT vehicle for our son. She wasn't happy because she thought it wouldn't be convenient or easy for him.

Pretty much solidified my decision to go ahead and get a manual!

 

[made in china]

Took my son out to give him his first driving lessons today.

Our current fleet of vehicles are newer and don't have the traditional parking brake between the front seats. When I taught my wife to drive, we had a car with an automatic that had the traditional shifter on the floor next to the parking brake that was between the seats. In case my wife would confuse the gas with for the brakes, I could pop the car into neutral and pull up the brake.

No such ability on newer cars, fortunately my son seems to pick it up just fine, but is was a bit concerning that I couldn't shut him down from the passenger seat...

I think he'll pick up driving a stick just fine. At first he said he preferred an automatic, but once I explained how the females will be lining up to get a ride in an old-school stick shift car, he was on board.....

 

[CamoDeafie]

You know what they used to say.. women love men who know how to shift their sticks.