Study: ‘True Costs’ Of Electric Vehicles Far Higher Than Most Believe

[L84Cabo]

Great article in the Daily Wire where they tried to get to the true costs of EV's if it wasn't all being heavily propped up by the massive amount of guberment subsidies.

Begs the question, "why in the hell are our tax dollars being used to prop this up, when the tech is miles away (PUN intended) from being ready for prime time."

That was rhetorical. I know why. It's a key element in the Marxist's plan for total domination and control.

Study: ‘True Costs’ Of Electric Vehicles Far Higher Than Most Believe | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

Adding the costs of the subsidies to the true cost of fueling an EV would equate to an EV owner paying $17.33 per gallon of gasoline.

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[CamoDeafie]

Great article in the Daily Wire where they tried to get to the true costs of EV's if it wasn't all being heavily propped up by the massive amount of guberment subsidies.

Begs the question, "why in the hell are our tax dollars being used to prop this up, when the tech is miles away (PUN intended) from being ready for prime time."

That was rhetorical. I know why. It's a key element in the Marxist's plan for total domination and control.

Study: ‘True Costs’ Of Electric Vehicles Far Higher Than Most Believe | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

And people will still ignore the truth as long as possible in order to keep feeling superior to gasoline heads

 

[Nosferatu]

While I have no personal use for an EV and am very much a car guy, I don't mind the development of them. They have their place and people should have as many options for propulsion as technology allows. More EVs on the road mean fewer people at the gas pump when I need to fill up!

I don't even mind tax money being used to subsidize the building of infrastructure to support them. Petroleum companies have received their fair share of subsidies as the current infrastructure was being built to support gasoline & diesel engines. At least that money is being used stateside to benefit Americans rather than funding some proxy war somewhere else, even if I'm not the one directly benefiting. I still pay for crappy schools, despite having no kids.

What I do mind is governments forcing us to switch. A few states have passed legislation preventing the sale of petroleum powered vehicles after a certain date. That is the sticking point with a lot of people and EVs - it's being shoved down everyone throat whether we want it or not.

It is possible for both to coexist. An EV isn't going to save the planet and just might be worse in the long run, but freedom of choice shouldn't be legislated away from us.

 

[Bacchus]

I'm a car guy, but I find the EVs interesting enough. For a local commuter I think they're great.

But what about people like me who treasure their vehicle as a way to drive cross country? From what I can tell, the time it takes to recharge your vehicle in the middle of your day's drive is much longer than it takes to stop and fill up with gasoline. For me that's the deal breaker.

I guess the Tesla's recharging stations work much faster than the other recharge stations, and the other EV automakers are starting to cave to the inevitable, making their cars compatible with Tesla recharging? I think it's still comparatively slow to recharge compared to gasoline, but somebody with actual experience can jump in and correct me.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Don't forget testicle shrinkage.

 

[Richo877]

Fuel sources of all kinds should be explored until we refine our energy needs to the point where our consumption can be sustained. One of my personal favorites is electromagnetic levitation and propulsion. It's very under-researched and probably the most beneficial to explore. Nuclear and hydrogen are also very effective, but more volatile. Strictly battery powered is only effective if the electricity itself is produced through clean sources like hydroelectric generators or wide range solar collection. Lithium mining itself is an absolute nightmare for the environment, but if the mining processes become regulated and the pollutants excreted are better controlled, there's potential for efficiency. Overall though, strictly battery powered cars aren't a long term solution. But neither is gasoline, as it's not that efficient in converting the amount of energy it consumes in the combustion process. It works, but with standard combustion engines converting the power of burning a fuel into mechanical propulsion, there is a lot of energy wasted in every moving part. But even then, there's better fuel to burn that gasoline. Diesel, for example, is just one that's loads better. Why gasoline then? Because it's cheap and easy... until it's gone.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

That is what is known as .....The electric sliding scale....
Andy

Not to be confused with these guys...

 

[Nosferatu]

But what about people like me who treasure their vehicle as a way to drive cross country? From what I can tell, the time it takes to recharge your vehicle in the middle of your day's drive is much longer than it takes to stop and fill up with gasoline. For me that's the deal breaker.

That's the biggest dealbreaker for me.

In my F350 pulling the travel trailer, I can go a tad over 500 miles between refills, which take ~10 minutes to do before going another 500+ miles.

No electric vehicle can do that, and they aren't even close to having the technology to accomplish it.

I've watched a few tests of electric trucks towing. The range gets cut in half as soon as you hook up a trailer to it, then takes around an hour to recharge. This puts you recharging about every 150-200 miles at one hour each. That make any distance travel impossible. Not to mention, no current charging stations allow for a vehicle with a trailer, so you have to park & unhook the trailer each time before pulling into the charging station. This is a non-starter for me.

What I'd like to see is a heavy-duty truck with a diesel-electric powertrain. You could have a small 4-cylinder diesel engine powering 4 electric motors at each wheel. This would give you all the torque benefits of the electric powertrain, with the fuel savings of a small diesel that simply maintains a constant RPM just producing electricity. Locomotives have been doing this for decades. Other than politics of pushing EV-only platforms, there's no reason not to put some effort into this platform. You don't even need batteries, so your truck won't melt down a parking garage!

 

[Richo877]

That's the biggest dealbreaker for me.

In my F350 pulling the travel trailer, I can go a tad over 500 miles between refills, which take ~10 minutes to do before going another 500+ miles.

No electric vehicle can do that, and they aren't even close to having the technology to accomplish it.

I've watched a few tests of electric trucks towing. The range gets cut in half as soon as you hook up a trailer to it, then takes around an hour to recharge. This puts you recharging about every 150-200 miles at one hour each. That make any distance travel impossible. Not to mention, no current charging stations allow for a vehicle with a trailer, so you have to park & unhook the trailer each time before pulling into the charging station. This is a non-starter for me.

What I'd like to see is a heavy-duty truck with a diesel-electric powertrain. You could have a small 4-cylinder diesel engine powering 4 electric motors at each wheel. This would give you all the torque benefits of the electric powertrain, with the fuel savings of a small diesel that simply maintains a constant RPM just producing electricity. Locomotives have been doing this for decades. Other than politics of pushing EV-only platforms, there's no reason not to put some effort into this platform. You don't even need batteries, so your truck won't melt down a parking garage!

One thing I've wondered is why there aren't multiple alternators to eliminate the need to recharge? Because money. They've gotta sell you a power source. The capabilities are there, but capitalist interests rule the market; without them, what market?

 

[Nosferatu]

One thing I've wondered is why there aren't multiple alternators to eliminate the need to recharge? Because money. They've gotta sell you a power source. The capabilities are there, but capitalist interests rule the market; without them, what market?

I don't think the on-board charging tech is quite there yet. Those electric motors are power hogs and need a massive amount of power to run. I think most EV batteries are 48 volt systems. An alternator to run that would be ridiculously large and produce a bunch of additional heat.

Chrysler/Ram/Jeep have an interesting system that is essentially a slave motor between the gas engine and transmission. This electric motor adds HP & torque to the system. I can see this tech being used to recharge onboard batteries, but I don't believe it's still enough to keep them topped off. It would be an assist to regenerative braking at best right now.

Heat is also a huge problem to solve. Charging and discharging lithium batteries produces a TON of heat. There are variances, but you can expect ~4000 charge cycles for every battery pack. Doing this live would mean replacing the entire battery pack every 5 years or so, depending on usage, should they not catch fire and melt to the core of the earth.

Batteries still need to get better better before a self-sustaining platform is feasible.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Fuel cell vehicles are IMO better but tech still not quite there.

 

[Bacchus]

why there aren't multiple alternators to eliminate the need to recharge

That's not free energy. When an alternator is producing electricity, it is being turned by the engine and the alternator mechanical load costs the engine more fuel.

More alternators would mean more fuel to the engine. You're not going to come out ahead.

 

[Richo877]

That's not free energy. When an alternator is producing electricity, it is being turned by the engine and the alternator mechanical load costs the engine more fuel.

More alternators would mean more fuel to the engine. You're not going to come out ahead.

Ok, hear me out, an alternator on each axle....

 

[Richo877]

Ok, hear me out, an alternator on each axle....

Or wait, how about alternating turbines in the air intake. Multipurpose with cooling.

 

[Nosferatu]

Ok, hear me out, an alternator on each axle....

That's essentially what regenerative braking is.

 

[Richo877]

If it doesn't exist yet... we make it

 

[Certaindeaf]

 

[Richo877]

That's essentially what regenerative braking is.

Right, but not using the braking, but consistently while the axles spin. HeII, the whole hub can be an alternator

 

[Nosferatu]

If it doesn't exist yet... we make it

That annoying physics thing keeps getting in the way.

Until cold fusion, that is!

 

[Richo877]

Now you're speaking my language