Oregon 114 and Shooting on pubic land

[Savage Jav]

Curious for some opinions on how 114 effects target shooting on public land? As its written I can take normal magazines to designated ranges. BLM land is legal to shoot on. Curious for your opinions on what we have to deal with until this unconstitutional measure is overturned.

Read More

 

[Alexx1401]

Curious for some opinions on how 114 effects target shooting on public land? As its written I can take normal magazines to designated ranges. BLM land is legal to shoot on. Curious for your opinions on what we have to deal with until this unconstitutional measure is overturned.

Not a lawyer and did not stay in Holiday Inn. Does the law say "designated ranges" ? If those exact words are in there my best guess is a place that may be safe to shoot that is not a "designated range" is not going to cut it. Unless it's your private property.

 

[arakboss]

Curious for some opinions on how 114 effects target shooting on public land? As its written I can take normal magazines to designated ranges. BLM land is legal to shoot on. Curious for your opinions on what we have to deal with until this unconstitutional measure is overturned.

Here is what the actual measure text says is exempt:

(C) While engaging in the legal use of the large-capacity magazine, at a public or private shooting range or shooting gallery or for recreational activities such as hunting, to the extent permitted under state law; or

Before you take your Standard Cap 10+ mags out to the woods to do some recreational shooting, ask yourself these questions:

1. Am I participating in a recreational activity? If answer is yes move on to next question.

2. Am I am otherwise legally permitted to shoot in the area I plan to shoot at?

If you answered yes to both questions then feel free to take your 20, 30, 40 rounders, drums, etc out and have fun.

 

[Alexx1401]

Here is what the actual measure text says is exempt:

(C) While engaging in the legal use of the large-capacity magazine, at a public or private shooting range or shooting gallery or for recreational activities such as hunting, to the extent permitted under state law; or

Before you take your Standard Cap 10+ mags out to the woods to do some recreational shooting, ask yourself these questions:

1. Am I participating in a recreational activity? If answer is yes move on to next question.

2. Am I am otherwise legally permitted to shoot in the area I plan to shoot at?

If you answered yes to both questions then feel free to take you 20, 30, 40 rounders, drums, etc out and have fun.

Now that is FAR different than a designated range. Shooting on land that is public and allows it would certainly have to fall under recreation. Wonder if the scum shooting at each other around Potland can call that recreational activity?

 

[Richo877]

It would depend on whether or not the public land you're shooting on is designated as a shooting range or gallery. Plinking around in undesignated national forest property might raise some questions, but if a tree falls in the woods...

 

[Richo877]

 

[arakboss]

It would depend on whether or not the public land you're shooting on is designated as a shooting range or gallery. Plinking around in undesignated national forest property might raise some questions, but if a tree falls in the woods...

If it's legal to recreationally shoot there, you can have your 10+ mags there.

 

[wombatz]

Just doing the math on how often I have talked to law enforcement while in the local forest shooting...

0.00%

 

[Gbirk]

Problem solved...Just take this with you.

https://byallen.com/ez-aim-shooting-gallery-target-kit-15476

(C) While engaging in the legal use of the large-capacity magazine, at a public or private shooting range or shooting gallery or for recreational activities such as hunting, to the extent permitted under state law.

I will bet money "shooting gallery" is not legally defined in Oregon law.

 

[HotRodGuy]

View attachment 1311299

And if you highlight right above that instead of picking and choosing...
"It is the policy of the Bureau of Land Management to allow recreational target shooting on public lands as long as permitted by federal, state, and local laws."

In other words, BLM sees target shooting as a recreational activity and as long as no other laws forbid it, they allow it. If 114 does not expressly say public lands do not qualify for recreational activity, it is good to go.

 

[Richo877]

This creates some gray area

permitted by federal, state, and local laws.

 

[arakboss]

I am wondering if Rev Knutters has joined the forum to convince us we can't use 10+ cap mags for recreational shooting where state law allows it.

 

[Richo877]

I am wondering if Rev Knutters has joined the forum to convince us we can't use 10+ cap mags for recreational shooting where state law allows it.

Not familiar with your reference, but if it's me, I'm not trying to convince anyone of the sort, I disagree wholeheartedly with the measure in its entirety. I'm curious how all of this will be defined. In speculation of 114 becoming law, and BLM land being undesignated; even though shooting is permitted as long as within state guidelines, does it then mean only allowed while using 10 rd max mags as permitted by state law?

 

[Savage Jav]

Just doing the math on how often I have talked to law enforcement while in the local forest shooting...

0.00%

Likewise, would suck for it to be that 1 in million

 

[PKFan]

What kind of land do you want to shoot on again?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Here's the actual pertinent text from M114:

(5) As of the effective date of this 2022 Act, it shall be an affirmative defense, as provided in ORS 166.055, to the unlawful possession, use and transfer of a large-capacity magazine in this state by any person, provided that:
(a) The large-capacity magazine was owned by the person before the effective date of this 2022 Act and maintained in the person's control or possession; or
(b) The possession of a large-capacity magazine was obtained by a person who, on or after the effective date of this section, acquired possession of the large-capacity magazine by operation of law upon the death of a former owner who was in legal possession of the large-capacity magazine;

Assuming we get past these first two requirements, it behooves us to dig a bit deeper here...

(c) In addition to either (a) or (b) of this subsection the owner has not maintained the large-capacity magazine in a manner other than:
(A) On property owned or immediately controlled by the registered owner;
(B) On the premises of a gun dealer or gunsmith licensed under 18 U.S.C. 923 for the purpose of lawful service or repair;
(C) While engaging in the legal use of the large-capacity magazine, at a public or private shooting range or shooting gallery or for recreational activities such as hunting, to the extent permitted under state law; or
(D) While participating in firearms competition or exhibition, display or educational project about firearms sponsored, conducted by, approved or under the auspices of a law enforcement agency or a national or state-recognized entity that fosters proficiency in firearms use or promotes firearms education; and
(E) While transporting any large-capacity magazines in a vehicle to one of the locations authorized in paragraphs (c)(A) to (D) of this subsection, the large-capacity magazine is not inserted into the firearm and is locked in a separate container.

Looks like we are good to go on our own property (A).
OK at a dealer or gunsmith (B).
At an event sponsored by an approved organization (D).
In transport (locked separately) to a legal destination. (D)
At a public or private range or shooting gallery (The first clause in C)
Or for recreational activities SUCH AS HUNTING, to the extent permitted under state law (The remainder of C)

Now here is where it gets really interesting. The phrase "recreational activities" is extremely broad. It doesn't say it HAS TO BE hunting. "Recreational activities" include fishing, surfing, bowling, golf, boating, etc. "Such as" means that there must be other unstated legal recreational activities, and it does not specify where these activities must take place. What it actually says is that these grandfathered magazines are OK anywhere you would be able to legally use them now, prior to M114. That would include public land, like national forests. Since there is a state limit on magazines for big game hunting they would be prohibited when deer hunting. Not so for coyote hunting. My conclusion is that outside of proving that a 30 round magazine was yours before M114, M114 doesn't change much about how you can use them, except they must be locked in a separate container for transport.

I did once attend law school, but I am not a lawyer, so take my ramblings for what they are worth. Thoughts?

 

[Soli]

I hope that's the case, but being in a dark mood the past few days I'm not optimistic.

In one of the (many...) other 114 threads it was brought up that the rules of the statute and its administration still have to be written. Those rules may be more or less than appear in the measure. And that "Lift Every Voice Oregon committee members are conferring with state lawmakers and state police on setting up a Measure 114 committee and workgroup to write the rules on everything from the information sought on permit application forms to the type of courses required for safety training."

So I can imagine this in the "workgroup":

Politician: "Regarding where the magazines can be used, we've got private property, shooting ranges, federal and state land..."
LEVO: "For hunting, of course."
Politician: "Um... well, not necessarily. Recreational shooting, target practice and training, casual competition and the like are perfectly legal on those public lands."
LEVO: "What?!? I didn't know that! No, no, that's not our vision for getting those horrible things out of circulation."
Politician: "Of course! I'll have my aid 'clarify' that part."

And bam, no use for anything except hunting. Where it's largely restricted anyway.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I hope that's the case, but being in a dark mood the past few days I'm not optimistic.

In one of the (many...) other 114 threads it was brought up that the rules of the statute and its administration still have to be written. Those rules may be more or less than appear in the measure. And that "Lift Every Voice Oregon committee members are conferring with state lawmakers and state police on setting up a Measure 114 committee and workgroup to write the rules on everything from the information sought on permit application forms to the type of courses required for safety training."

So I can imagine this in the "workgroup":

Politician: "Regarding where the magazines can be used, we've got private property, shooting ranges, federal and state land..."
LEVO: "For hunting, of course."
Politician: "Um... well, not necessarily. Recreational shooting, target practice and training, casual competition and the like are perfectly legal on those public lands."
LEVO: "What?!? I didn't know that! No, no, that's not our vision for getting those horrible things out of circulation."
Politician: "Of course! I'll have my aid 'clarify' that part."

And bam, no use for anything except hunting. Where it's largely restricted anyway.

No worries. The whole thing will be trashed in federal court.

 

[GrayGoose]

You can either:

A) Be a big pussy
B) Live your life

Your choice.

 

[40Garand]

Curious for some opinions on how 114 effects target shooting on public land? As its written I can take normal magazines to designated ranges. BLM land is legal to shoot on. Curious for your opinions on what we have to deal with until this unconstitutional measure is overturned.

It really boils down to how you and your shooting party carry yourselves. If you are in a safe location, utilizing natural back stops, not shooting over hill tops or into stands of trees, acting like fools, drinking, mag dumping, or shooting at garbage targets and making a mess LEO will most likely leave you alone. I lived in Southern California on and off for 30 some years of my shooting life and I never complied with capacity laws or feature restrictions like bullet buttons. Myself and our groups were never sought out or contacted by LEO. However they have driven by and we've stopped shooting to politely acknowledge their existence and struck up a few conversations but they never gave that city cop vibe that they were looking to wet a hook or land a desert Marlin. It was usually quick pleasantries and they'd move on. It's simple, people need to make their own choice. Either you comply or you don't but I surely wouldn't waste a whole ton of time probing social media for others opinions on the matter. As far as I'm concerned, the ones willing to lay down and comply in Oregon probably voted yes on 114 in the first place.