YES WE CAN! kick wounded vets in the........

[MarkAd]

WE might "be behind the rest of the world", but isn't it funny that th rest of the world coms here for health care. Thy don't go to Canada or Britian or Cuba. They come here.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

WE might "be behind the rest of the world", but isn't it funny that th rest of the world coms here for health care. Thy don't go to Canada or Britian or Cuba. They come here.

That's bunk. The rest of the industrialized world does NOT come here for health care.

 

[Chee-to]

You mean like how most of the other industrialized nations do it? And do it quite well. Are we somehow less capable than them? And do start spewing nonsense about how people in canada are coming to America in droves for health care. That is all bunk created by conservative media and news to Canadians. There is the rare case of someone in Canada with money coming to America for quicker and more specialized service and people coming here for elective procedures...but those numbers do not even begin to compare to the number of Americans denied care by insurance companies.

I guess it all comes down to whose "nonsense" you believe........... Well known gov run programs; SS, USPS, Amtrack, Medicare, war on drugs, no child left behind, welfare, poverty programs, not to mention the trillions spent on the TARP bail out programs....

 

[Trlsmn]

The real problem with Socialist programs isn't so much the socialism, it is the waste caused by not having to make a profit on the Management side and waste though abuse on the client side. In the Utopian sense if would be great for everyone to be taken care of for life, if anyone know where this utopia is please tell me because I've yet to even catch a glimpse of it in my 40 some odd years.

 

[cameronhu]

WE might "be behind the rest of the world", but isn't it funny that th rest of the world coms here for health care. Thy don't go to Canada or Britian or Cuba. They come here.

Actually, I think more and more folks are going to India. Especially US citizens...

I've worked for the government. And I've worked in the private sector. My observations have lead me to believe it's a flip of the coin on which is worse- Corporate profits (greed) vs. Government spending (waste). Remember, the money the government "wastes" doesn't just evaporate. Typically that money goes to private contracting companies (now those companies refer to that "waste" as "profit") - Typically those companies are American.

My biggest issue with health care and social programs in general, is that they don't appear to be applied consistently. Logically speaking, why do Vets get government medical coverage? Why not cops, firefighters, etc? Why do the elderly get social security and medicare when they've had their whole lives to save for retirement and plan for their eventual health problems? Kids on the other hand have nothing.

Either we take care of our own, or we don't. Let's just pick one and go with it - If it doesn't work out, let's try the other.

Same thing with education. And transportation. Why is it OK for the government to pick up the tab on roads? Why not privatize them like they do in a true socialist country like France?

And then there's the military... Why is this volunteer? In my country (as I'm sure you all realizing, I'm in my own little utopia now) military service would be mandatory. ****, if we did that in this country we could dispense with the whole healthcare debate, because everyone would be covered by the VA.

That's it. I'm going to buy an Island and set up my own country. Anyone want to come along for the start-up? You can bring your guns. Lots of them.

 

[AGCR]

That's bunk. The rest of the industrialized world does NOT come here for health care.

Exactly. Canada has a huge problem draining their system with Americans running across the border to use their services. The for-profit model has been tried and failed. I formerly lived in Germany and had several first hand experiences demonstrating how much better and more efficient a socialized medical plan can be.

 

[Trlsmn]

That argument fell apart with your very first sentence. I am self employed.

And if insuring workers is bankrupting employers then shouldn't the solution be to fix the whole system and not just benefit the big insurance companies by reducing their payouts?

In BigJohns defense he likely read this post. http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42601&postcount=3

We that know you, know you are no longer employed but are self employed, but back 15 post you weren't.

 

[Chee-to]

Why do the elderly get social security and medicare when they've had their whole lives to save for retirement and plan for their eventual health problems?

Because they've payed in to it for 45-50 years, only about 30% of them will ever get the money they've donated out of it.....

The tax rate is 7.65 percent
of your gross wages (6.2 percent for Social
Security and 1.45 percent for Medicare). In
the year 2000, your employer withholds the
full tax—7.65 percent—up to a $76,200
wage base. If you earn more than $76,200,
your employer continues to withhold the
Medicare portion of the Social Security tax,
or 1.45 percent, on the rest of your earnings.
Did you know that your employer matches
your tax payment dollar for dollar? The next
time you look at your Social
Security deduction, double it, and that’s the
amount you and your employer are paying
into Social Security toward your future
benefits. It ain't free !

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Who do you think is paying the insurance companies? We the people...that is who. Why should they not do what they are being paid to do and allow the government money to go towards improving VA hospitals and providing better care for vets that are not lucky enough to have private insurance?

Very late to this party but here is my two cents worth...

The privately owned insurance companies have a right (to certain extents) as to what, who, and where they are going to cover an individual. I could see an insurance company perhaps offering special 'war zone' coverage for an additional premium. But that is up to them.
For instance, most companies cover their employees from being injured on the job with 'special' employer paid policy.
Likewise, when you go serve at the direction of the POTUS you are being employed by the citizens of the US. Hence, we (the non serving) people should in fact reward and show our appreciation by overing any injuries you experience while serving.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

That's bunk. The rest of the industrialized world does NOT come here for health care.

Canadians DO come here for health care. Frequently.
My family friends who are health care professionals regularly travel to Seattle for health care. Simply because their system, and I quote 'stinks'.

 

[jordanvraptor]

Even Jon Stewart thought this idea was stupid.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-march-17-2009/that-can-t-be-right---veterans--health-insurance

In as far as my situation goes, my service in the Army messed me up. Not my employers fault or their insurance company's fault. Financially, I would also have to pay deductibles out of my pocket up to $1000 per year. Imagine how many soldiers would seek treatment for PTSD after being told they have to pay out of pocket and their health insurance rates might be raised? If its service connected the VA should pay. If its not service connected there are copays and other rules that come into effect. I don't know much about that cause my service connected rating is high enough that I don't have to worry about those issues. To be honest I sometimes feel like I'm a welfare queen getting a lot of stuff from the govt just because I got hurt while working for them. Guess its sort of like workmans comp in that respect and maybe thats how it should be looked at.

 

[SheepDog223]

I think that you should re-read the agreement made between both parties when you joined. You shouldn't get anymore or any less. The govt shouldn't give any more or any less. If any services change they should change from people joining from today forward.

 

[tionico]

One principle binding on ALL insurance policies has been left out: the issue of prior conditions. Buy a used car with a smashed in right door, they'll exclude that from coverege. Any medical insurance will exclude any pre-existing condition. Any company will refuse coverage of "damage" done before you were their client. If injured in military service, no policy will pay for caring for that injury once you are out. That is part of why the military medical system exists, and extends to the Veterans Administration facilities.

I won't get into the quality of care (or lack thereof) in VA facilities. But, bottom line, a private insureror should not be expected to pay for a loss incurred while not their client. Any more than my private policy should now take up coverage for a past industrial injury which is clearly the responsibility of the Workmens' Compensation system.

I'll also leave off any comments on the issue, having snuck in round the corner, of what to do concerning our own national healthcare industry. It was not a part of the OP's question.

I WILL say, though, that, based upon long-term observation of past government policy and performance, any "savings" realised by having private insurance cover service-related medical care will be very unlikely to actually find its way toward improving veterans' medical care. It will end up elsewhere, as always. Yes, it seems the present administration does despise the military, and will be very unlikely to faithfully uphold our end of the contract extended to those who have served. Sad, but too true.

 

[dario541]

Look at it this way: If insurance companies have to pay out too much, where will their CEO's get their 100 million dollar bonuses (AIG comes to mind)?

 

[Jamie6.5]

And if insuring workers is bankrupting employers then shouldn't the solution be to fix the whole system and not just benefit the big insurance companies by reducing their payouts?

Ask any doctor what their largest overhead expense is and they will tell you it's malpractice insurance.
Bringing costs down needs to start with tort reform. Unfortunately the majority in Congress doesn't want to p!$$ off the trial lawyers, because that's where their roots are. The VP and others democrat leaders have even said so outright. And face it, the 'pubs most likely are as bad or worse, but they kowtow to the insurance companies.
The insurance companies know that they are in control of the situation. When they raise MP insurance, the Dr's raise their rates/fees. Then the cost to the patient goes up and along with that comes higher healthcare premiums. They are making it on both ends.
In true capitalism suppliers don't pay increases, they pass them on to consumers,... YOU and ME.

Start with tort reform, move on to FORBIDDING any insurance company from selling insurance on both ends. If they sell MP insurance, then they can't sell healthcare insurance to the general public and vice-versa.
Right now they have a gov't sanctioned monopoly,...
And the current "reform" movement will take it beyond that into a gov't requirement to participate in their monopoly.

If you took the lobby $$$ from the trial lawyers and insurance companies out of the picture, you'd have doctors fees you could afford to pay yourself, and wouldn't need health insurance.
That is capitalism!!

Don't get me started on the insurance sponsored, gov't requirements on healthcare practices!!! Those are almost as stupid!

 

[dario541]

In my opinion the Government does NOT do anything well! Social(ist) (in)Security sucks! If a private insurance company operated the way that SS does, they would be shut down and their owners arrested for running a Ponzi Scam! Medicare is so bad that a person has to purchase a Medicare supplement to fill the massive holes in it! The Medicare prescription plan has a huge hole (Called the "Doughnut Hole). There is NO coverage for DENTAL in any government insurance plan. Aren't dental problems a health issue, too? It goes on and on. I don't know anything at which government is efficient.
If it didn't cost so much for Social Security, welfare, unemployment checks and Medicare - NOBODY would need Social Security, welfare, unemployment checks and welfare!

 

[Jamie6.5]

And when they're done doing that TO the insurance company profits,...
Then your Congressional Representatives and Senators can DEMAND that the Gov't meet it's obligation to our war veterans, and see that they get adequate, if not premium, healthcare.

Asking someone to lay down their life for you and then crapping on them when they are injured doing so is not the American way. Not now, in the past or ever.
I'm not saying it hasn't happened before, but when a political figure promises "change," it should be change for the better.

 

[Cliph]

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/would-obama-have-soldiers-pay-for-own-war-injuries/

I am a severely disabled Vietnam Veteran and I have my own medical insurance. It seems to me the question is: Do you want to pay for my healthcare through increased taxes or through increased medical insurance premiums? The issue is now moot, because the idea has beenwithdrawn from consideration. See above link for facts.

 

[AGCR]

In my opinion the Government does NOT do anything well! Social(ist) (in)Security sucks! If a private insurance company operated the way that SS does, they would be shut down and their owners arrested for running a Ponzi Scam! Medicare is so bad that a person has to purchase a Medicare supplement to fill the massive holes in it! The Medicare prescription plan has a huge hole (Called the "Doughnut Hole). There is NO coverage for DENTAL in any government insurance plan. Aren't dental problems a health issue, too? It goes on and on. I don't know anything at which government is efficient.
If it didn't cost so much for Social Security, welfare, unemployment checks and Medicare - NOBODY would need Social Security, welfare, unemployment checks and welfare!

Incorrect. Just look at, say, Indiana, which privatized their food stamp program several years ago and gave the contract to IBM. The company completely failed at being either cheaper or more efficient. Or take when Canada privatized several of their water utilities years ago. Turned out that making a profit in the water business means cutting quality control and people in Walkerton, Ontario started dropping dead from contagion. Then of course there's been privatization of the prison system which actually increases criminality.
Plus, my grandparents remember the days before social security. Our elders fought for those privileges we now enjoy because so many old folks were living like dogs in the street once they couldn't work anymore. I'm proud my tax money goes to help the old generations.

 

[GED]

Edited because the personal attack was deleted. - Mods

Easy there partner. Seems to me like you're tell'n the Penguin that maybe this ain't the right(note the double entendre)forum/venue for him(or by inference, those that share his opinions?).

I actually look forward to PP's intelligent and insightful posts. Besides these, he's a real asset here in that he breaks the stereotype that many liberals seem to have about gun owners(and he owns many).

But apart from any of this, he stated in post #3 on this thread that he is a Vet of the Gulf War which in my book makes him more than welcome here or anywhere, regardless of where he stands politically or his opinions (which, again, IMO, are pretty right on. I'm no "liberal either-nor a conservative–more of a realist than anything.