YES WE CAN! kick wounded vets in the........

[Trlsmn]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/10/veterans.health.insurance

"Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance."

YES YOU WILL!

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[wichaka]

Even the thought of such a thing is the last straw in what was a great country.....we are now forever lost.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I am a vet of the first Gulf War and I see nothing wrong with this. If I have private insurance through my civilian employer, where tons of money is being paid into the insurance companies pocket, why should they not shoulder some of the burden for my medical care...allowing government resources to be freed up to care for those that do not have privately paid insurance? It will not cost me anything, and it allows for me to see my own doctor.

I say make the private insurance pay it's share and make it illegal for them to then punish the insured party.

 

[wichaka]

I agree you should be able to see your own doc if need be, but we the people should cover the cost, it's the least we can do for your service.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I agree you should be able to see your own doc if need be, but we the people should cover the cost, it's the least we can do for your service.

Who do you think is paying the insurance companies? We the people...that is who. Why should they not do what they are being paid to do and allow the government money to go towards improving VA hospitals and providing better care for vets that are not lucky enough to have private insurance?

 

[Trlsmn]

Who do you think is paying the insurance companies? We the people...that is who. Why should they not do what they are being paid to do and allow the government money to go towards improving VA hospitals and providing better care for vets that are not lucky enough to have private insurance?

If only!

 

[Generator]

PlayboyPenguin,
I don't think you should have to pay into anything except for taxes. You served and it is part of our citizen's tax obligations to serve you in return (in a different way of course), all politics aside of what any American thinks of the Presidents decision to go to war.
Insurance agencies are out for profit and have turned our health-care industry into an Armani-dressed group of greed mongers. Wichaka had it right, and I think that you should be able to see who you want. As should the rest of us, but as I remember seeing in middle school along side USSR historical posters "The Business of America is Business" I'm not a socialist, but there is a better way to take care of our warriors and our citizens.
and "make the private insurance pay it's share and make it illegal for them to then punish the insured party"? well thats no longer capitalism. Insurance only makes money by NOT paying its share and always overcharging the insured.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

If only!

You say that, but how can it happen if every time real progress is attempted people fall for the propaganda of the large insurance companies and become enraged for all the wrong reasons about all the wrong topics. It is time the American people start looking at things with an open and logical mind and stop acting like pavlovian dogs for the big corporations.

 

[wichaka]

I'm on your side, I really am.....been there had it done to me.

But I see where this is going, so I will excuse myself from the conversation.

Be well...

 

[Trlsmn]

You say that, but how can it happen if every time real progress is attempted people fall for the propaganda of the large insurance companies and become enraged for all the wrong reasons about all the wrong topics. It is time the American people start looking at things with an open and logical mind and stop acting like pavlovian dogs for the big corporations.

Well "if only" wasn't real descriptive I should say "if only" the government would use the savings to improve VA hospitals and provide better care for vets.

As for insurance companies, though I'm not a socialist I believe health insurance should be an equal right for all US citizens, In that we are way behind the rest of the world.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I'm not a socialist, but there is a better way to take care of our warriors and our citizens.
and "make the private insurance pay it's share and make it illegal for them to then punish the insured party"? well thats no longer capitalism. Insurance only makes money by NOT paying its share and always overcharging the insured.

No, that is NOT how insurance companies are supposed to make their money. That is falling prey to brainwashing by large corporations. Insurance companies are supposed to do what they charge you to do. They make their money by insuring 1000 people and only having a small percentage actually need expensive medical care...not by denying services for which you have already paid. That is capitalism. Taking money and then not paying on their own whim is not capitalism. It is not a free and fair market. It is an oligarchy.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Well "if only" wasn't real descriptive I should say "if only" the government would use the savings to improve VA hospitals and provide better care for vets.

But how can they even try if the issue is "dead on arrival" because of uproar from the uniformed and angry masses foaming at the mouths at the command of the corporations? How many times must we fall for the "why even try" message from the people looking to stall progress?

 

[Trlsmn]

But how can they even try if the issue is "dead on arrival" because of uproar from the uniformed and angry masses foaming at the mouths at the command of the corporations? How many times must we fall for the "why even try" message from the people looking to stall progress?

I think you give people a lot less credit than they deserve, you shouldn't be so quick to put people into the category of mindless drones.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I think you give people a lot less credit than they deserve, you shouldn't be so quick to put people into the category of mindless drones.

Credit is given where credit is due, but in these cases I am afraid it continues to work again and again. You even admit yourself that it would be a good thing to do if the government then used the freed up funds to improve VA hospitals and care for the uninsured vets but you were so quick to start shouting down the idea before even thinking it through or considering that the people in charge might actually do the right thing. All because a Senator or two, who are shills for the big insurance interests, start whining about the proposal to the media...which is largely supported by the same interests.

 

[Trlsmn]

Credit is given where credit is due, but in these cases I am afraid it continues to work again and again. You even admit yourself that it would be a good thing to do if the government then used the freed up funds to improve VA hospitals and care for the uninsured vets but you were so quick to start shouting down the idea before even thinking it through or considering that the people in charge might actually do the right thing. All because a Senator or two, who are shills for the big insurance interests, start whining about the proposal to the media...which is largely supported by the same interests.

Ding Ding Ding, that post illustrates that you failed to see when someone was agreeing and not just taking the mindless corporate line. For the record I read Generators post several times and couldn't find a reason for you to label him as a corporate drone either.

Where we disagree is that I don't believe that the government will do the right thing. Sure I would like to see change for the better but sorry if I'm not a mindless Obama drone thinking he is the answer. As I've said many times I blame Dems and Reps for the condition of the country, they are all there to serve the Corporations not just the Reps.

 

[Scott]

I have to way in on this matter. I disagree with you PP but I am glad you served. I did serve as well and gave 12 years of my life to do it. I look at this way when someone gets out they get crap and the government can pay for people who give their life to protect freedom and liberty and that is something Obama does not want to do. He does not like the military. I have only a 20% service connected disability but I have lost friends in combat and have seen people injured (shot, gernades, RPG's) and the government should take of these people no matter what!!!! Why should private insurance pick it up? They had nothing to do with that injury and it's not their problem. Why should Obama and his family get treatment from the military and not people who actually served? Look at Kennedy and his treatment why can't he just go pay for it himself? I think that this plan is a little one sided and not very fair. But dems have never been fair to vets. So again why should the government not pay for vets with missing limbs, psych disorders, gs wounds, head woulds along with many other problems? That is the least this Dumb A!! administation could do. Again thanks to all the fellow vets that had balls to serve. Kudos to you!!!!!!

Scott

No offense to the people that did not serve. The last sentence is basically for all the liberals in the administration, congress, and senate plus the rest of America. I am sick of the anti-gun and anti-military people out there and I wonder where their head is at most of the time.

 

[BigJohn]

I am a vet of the first Gulf War and I see nothing wrong with this. If I have private insurance through my civilian employer, where tons of money is being paid into the insurance companies pocket, why should they not shoulder some of the burden for my medical care...allowing government resources to be freed up to care for those that do not have privately paid insurance? It will not cost me anything, and it allows for me to see my own doctor.

I say make the private insurance pay it's share and make it illegal for them to then punish the insured party.

The company you work for if is of any size is probably self insured. If they were exposed to having to pay your medical bills it would affect their bottom line, which would affect your pay, which could bankrupt the company. If they are not self insured and they are paying premiums that is fine. Until the next time that renewal comes up. They would do one of two things. Cancel the policy that they have with the company or raise the premiums to reflect the risks that they are now responsible for. If they cancel your insurance then the company may decide that they are no longer going to offer health insurance. If they do continue to offer insurance then you can be assured that they will let the employees pick up most if not all of the increased premiums. The way I see it is either way you are screwed. It is a great thought but one that I am afraid would backfire on you and the rest of the employees in your company. This would also increase their costs of doing business. They would then have to increase the prices to their customers. This could make them non competitive in the market and would then loose business and then the doors might close. I believe that your idea is a good one but one that would have a very negative effect on your company.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The company you work for if is of any size is probably self insured. If they were exposed to having to pay your medical bills it would affect their bottom line, which would affect your pay, which could bankrupt the company. If they are not self insured and they are paying premiums that is fine. Until the next time that renewal comes up. They would do one of two things. Cancel the policy that they have with the company or raise the premiums to reflect the risks that they are now responsible for. If they cancel your insurance then the company may decide that they are no longer going to offer health insurance. If they do continue to offer insurance then you can be assured that they will let the employees pick up most if not all of the increased premiums. The way I see it is either way you are screwed. It is a great thought but one that I am afraid would backfire on you and the rest of the employees in your company. This would also increase their costs of doing business. They would then have to increase the prices to their customers. This could make them non competitive in the market and would then loose business and then the doors might close. I believe that your idea is a good one but one that would have a very negative effect on your company.

That argument fell apart with your very first sentence. I am self employed.

And if insuring workers is bankrupting employers then shouldn't the solution be to fix the whole system and not just benefit the big insurance companies by reducing their payouts?

 

[Chee-to]

That argument fell apart with your very first sentence. I am self employed.

And if insuring workers is bankrupting employers then shouldn't the solution be to fix the whole system and not just benefit the big insurance companies by reducing their payouts?

Fixing it is one thing , government run is quite another....

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Fixing it is one thing , government run is quite another....

You mean like how most of the other industrialized nations do it? And do it quite well. Are we somehow less capable than them? And do start spewing nonsense about how people in canada are coming to America in droves for health care. That is all bunk created by conservative media and news to Canadians. There is the rare case of someone in Canada with money coming to America for quicker and more specialized service and people coming here for elective procedures...but those numbers do not even begin to compare to the number of Americans denied care by insurance companies.