Oregon Would FFL License Negate Restrictions in IP43 REDUX?

[arakboss]

sorry, do not miss the point...at the moment FFLs are exempt, single pen stoke of the Gov on an EO, and FFLs are not exempt.

Wishing would of, could of, doesn't make it happen...glance over here to WA and see how your wish of more FFLs has resulted in crippling legislative curbs on business practices in terms of tariffs or taxes or loss of business in specific counties along the megalopolis on the west coast of the state.

Do you believe that increased numbers of FFLs are a cause of the increased anti-gun sentiment among the residents of WA?

 

[arakboss]

sorry, do not miss the point...at the moment FFLs are exempt, single pen stoke of the Gov on an EO, and FFLs are not exempt.

Wishing would of, could of, doesn't make it happen...glance over here to WA and see how your wish of more FFLs has resulted in crippling legislative curbs on business practices in terms of tariffs or taxes or loss of business in specific counties along the megalopolis on the west coast of the state.

I would have to drill in to the numbers but I believe there are other sources for the increase in anti-gun policies. Here is a 2016 article that would refute the notion that more FFLs would increase anti-gun sentiment, and in fact the states with the largest reductions in FFLs are some of the most restrictive: Number of Gun Dealers in U.S. Drops 77 Percent Since 1994—From 245,628 to 56,577—New Violence Policy Center (VPC) Analysis Reveals

How are we going to increase interest and normalize firearms if we are shuddering, suppressing or hiding sales of firearms. I vote for more firearms in the hands of the people and at cheaper prices, same goes for ammo.

 

[arakboss]

sorry, do not miss the point...at the moment FFLs are exempt, single pen stoke of the Gov on an EO, and FFLs are not exempt.

Wishing would of, could of, doesn't make it happen...glance over here to WA and see how your wish of more FFLs has resulted in crippling legislative curbs on business practices in terms of tariffs or taxes or loss of business in specific counties along the megalopolis on the west coast of the state.

Also a left interest argument could be made for more FFLs per capita. It could be argued that having cheaper and easier access to an FFL would discourage private parties from transferring firearms outside the state system. Much like having cheap easy access to landfills would discourage dumping. Also less damage to environment from traveling if FFL access is closer. And more access for poor and minorites who are stuck in "FFL Deserts". More homebased FFLs will deprive large corp FFLs of some of their greedy profits. Some /s included in this comment.

 

[justcuz]

Ok, no more is not better...

Economics 101, ROI on firearm sales is marginal at best, e.g., cabelas sells, on sale, the M&P 9m hi performance ported shield for $424 + tax. My FFL friends tell me it costs them $414 + $30 s/h to purchase wholesale. Humm, guess my friends aren't maintaining inventory of that pistol?

LGS FFL ROI per unit if sold for MSRP is only around $150-200 per unit.

Oh wait, distributors offer LGS FFLs, manuf packages for LGS FFLs to buy 10 firearms at say $650/each + s/h get one free [$650] so LGS FFL invest $6500 in inventory w/MSRP maybe + $175 [which is max & high] over wholesale per unit. But why would any cheep & savy citizen pay full MSRP price when they can wait till big box retailer, who buys hundreds/thousands directly from manufacturers, has a sale selling the exact same firearm significantly below what LGS FFL paid wholesale for the same firearm?

The above is just for one, one firearm inventory item the LGS FFL maintains, not the hundreds the big box store has on hand, at any given time, to up-sale to citizens. Don't forget the big box retailers will also special order!

So no, why on earth would someone advocate more sellers when the sellers can't make a decent profit to their local community as it is...look at this site...internet not local citizens with everyone looking for the almighty sale price!

 

[justcuz]

Truly, you honestly believe big city e.g., Chicago's ethnic population uses FFLs to purchase their firearms? The windy city's ordnance(s) have ran LGS completely out of cook county!

 

[arakboss]

Ok, no more is not better...

Economics 101, ROI on firearm sales is marginal at best, e.g., cabelas sells, on sale, the M&P 9m hi performance ported shield for $424 + tax. My FFL friends tell me it costs them $414 + $30 s/h to purchase wholesale. Humm, guess my friends aren't maintaining inventory of that pistol?

LGS FFL ROI per unit if sold for MSRP is only around $150-200 per unit.

Oh wait, distributors offer LGS FFLs, manuf packages for LGS FFLs to buy 10 firearms at say $650/each + s/h get one free [$650] so LGS FFL invest $6500 in inventory w/MSRP maybe + $175 [which is max & high] over wholesale per unit. But why would any cheep & savy citizen pay full MSRP price when they can wait till big box retailer, who buys hundreds/thousands directly from manufacturers, has a sale selling the exact same firearm significantly below what LGS FFL paid wholesale for the same firearm?

The above is just for one, one firearm inventory item the LGS FFL maintains, not the hundreds the big box store has on hand, at any given time, to up-sale to citizens. Don't forget the big box retailers will also special order!

So no, why on earth would someone advocate more sellers when the sellers can't make a decent profit to their local community as it is...look at this site...internet not local citizens with everyone looking for the almighty sale price!

OK I understand the motivation for having less FFLs from FFLs financial point of view. I was looking at it from the consumers point of view and I thought you were making an argument that more FFLs would cause greater anti-gun sentiment. Your financial interest point of view is understood.

 

[arakboss]

Truly, you honestly believe big city e.g., Chicago's ethnic population uses FFLs to purchase their firearms? The windy city's ordnance(s) have ran LGS completely out of cook county!

There was some sarcasm in that comment.

 

[wired]

Washington is a good example of a little of what you want. It is illegal for the vast majority of Washington residents to own machine guns or even purchase machine gun parts. The exception being licensed machine gun dealers ( and a few other grandfathered individuals we don't need to get into ) . So there are quite a few kitchen table o2/07 manufacturers and 03 kitchen table dealers. Most sell for a fraction over cost or even for flat fee plus tax. I'm sure someone in the state would love for them to go away but they cause not problems and keep their mouths shut. As long as taxes are paid and zoning is followed there is not much the state can do. It really all comes down to what the locals are willing to put up with and if you follow your zoning regs. Thats why there has been a precipitous drop in the number of kitchen table dealers in the last 40 years. People werent following zoning regs and it caught up with them as the ATF began to require people to follow all the law and not just their rules.

 

[justcuz]

There was some sarcasm in that comment.

Really? I truly hadn't noticed

well maybe i might have noticed

perhaps a smidgen of sarcasm and rest reality...

 

[justcuz]

snippp... People werent (sic) following zoning regs and it caught up with them as the ATF began to require people to follow all the law and not just their law.

The FED agency, ATF, cannot in any shape or form, require anyone to follow state statutes/local ordinances as it is completely outside their judicial charter & purview.

 

[wired]

The FED agency, ATF, cannot in any shape or form, require anyone to follow state statutes/local ordinances as it is completely outside their judicial charter & purview.

Sure they can. They can refuse to issue a permit for the dealer to do business until all the local zoning law regs are met. And thats exactly what they do every day. The way they do it is you cannot get an FFL without a business license. You cannot get a business license unless your local zoning regs are met. See how that works?

When you go through the application process they require all of the applicable conditions are met. Not just "oh gee wiz heres the regs but don' worry about it". They want to see permits, business licenses etc. or they WILL NOT ISSUE THE FFL.

From the ATF ...

• To receive a license as a dealer (including pawnbrokers & gunsmiths), importer, or manufacturer of firearms, you must intend to engage in a firearms business. ( requires a business license )
• You can expect to be contacted by an ATF officer during the application process. ( who will want to see said business license )
• You will be required to prepare and keep detailed records of all firearms transactions.
• Your records and premises will be subject to inspection by ATF officers.
• ATF notifies State and local authorities regarding applicants for Federal firearms licenses.
• State laws or local ordinances may require additional licenses or permits for firearms licenses. ( The ATF agent will want to see those )
• Other State or local requirements, such as cash bonds, liability insurance, zoning restrictions, collection of sales taxes, etc., may also apply to your proposed firearms business. You should contact your State and local authorities for specific information on their requirements. ( The agent will want to see that stuff too. And if you don't have it you will not get issued an FFL )
• Firearms licensees should contact the Internal Revenue Service for information regarding business operations and Federal income taxes.
• When requested by ATF, licensees are required to furnish information regarding firearms traces.

Instructions for Form 7/7CR - Application for Federal Firearms License | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[Vepr545x39]

If I live in pearl district I rent an apartment would I be able to obtain home base FFL ?

 

[CountryGent]

If I live in pearl district I rent an apartment would I be able to obtain home base FFL ?

It would be best to check the zoning before bothering. Also, assuming you rent your apartment, you will need to provide ATF a letter from your landlord saying he/she gave permission. I own my home, but where I have the FFL located is a leased commercial building. ATF required a signed/dated letter from the company that owned my building.

Good luck.

 

[Vepr545x39]

It would be best to check the zoning before bothering. Also, assuming you rent your apartment, you will need to provide ATF a letter from your landlord saying he/she gave permission. I own my home, but where I have the FFL located is a leased commercial building. ATF required a signed/dated letter from the company that owned my building.

Good luck.

Where or who did you call to find out about zoning?

 

[CountryGent]

Where or who did you call to find out about zoning?

If you are in Portland, I believe this will help. Cheers.

 

[BSG 75]

If I live in pearl district I rent an apartment would I be able to obtain home base FFL ?

Read your lease. Standard leases prohibit tenants from operating a business in the rental property. For example:

2. Use of Premises. The premises shall be used for dwelling purposes only and not for business without landlord's prior written consent.

You can try asking your landlord's permission to be a gun dealer in your rental. I'm sure that will go over real well.

 

[Vepr545x39]

If you are in Portland, I believe this will help. Cheers.

Nice thank you I know it will be tough especially here in Portland lots of leftists who do oppose anything 2A but I figured it's worth a try

 

[Vepr545x39]

Read your lease. Standard leases prohibit tenants from operating a business in the rental property. For example:



You can try asking your landlord's permission to be a gun dealer in your rental. I'm sure that will go over real well.

I move getting into the business to do online sales so no traffic will be conducted to my apartment

 

[CountryGent]

Nice thank you I know it will be tough especially here in Portland lots of leftists who do oppose anything 2A but I figured it's worth a try

I'd imagine the city government is pretty hostile to anything firearms related. Good luck with your business plan; if I can answer any questions about becoming FFL licensed, I would be glad to help.

 

[BSG 75]

I move getting into the business to do online sales so no traffic will be conducted to my apartment

English please.

Again, your landlord can evict you if you are running any kind of business from that location without their written permission.