why voluntary regulation of corporations is such a bad idea

[unionguy]

Obama has found his Katrina. His incompetence in dealing with this spill has caused alot of grief. Maybe if he hadn't taken huge contributions from the oil companies then things would be different.

jj

Your Obama swipe is laughable, given the large amounts of oil money that washed over the previous administration. The problems at MMS suggest years and years of a too-cozy relationship with the industry they were supposed to regulate...do you really think that all started under Obama?

Now, does that mean Obama and the Dems are off the hook? No way. The real problem is the money that has flowed to both Reps and Dems over the years from Big Oil.

As I've said often here, the anti-government ideologues need to remember one thing: Government works quite well when its serving the interests of the rich and the corporate elite. It's only when it comes to serving OUR interests that it gets all messy.

 

[Just Jim]

Your Obama swipe is laughable, given the large amounts of oil money that washed over the previous administration. The problems at MMS suggest years and years of a too-cozy relationship with the industry they were supposed to regulate...do you really think that all started under Obama?

Now, does that mean Obama and the Dems are off the hook? No way. The real problem is the money that has flowed to both Reps and Dems over the years from Big Oil.

As I've said often here, the anti-government ideologues need to remember one thing: Government works quite well when its serving the interests of the rich and the corporate elite. It's only when it comes to serving OUR interests that it gets all messy.

There is nothing wrong with our system of government, we just have crooks running it. It doesn't help either that unions in government are bleeding us dry.

jj

 

[unionguy]

There is nothing wrong with our system of government, we just have crooks running it. It doesn't help either that unions in government are bleeding us dry.

jj

Unions are both more heavily overseen by the government and have far more democracy by their members than do the corporations. And, if you really believe unions influence things more than corporations, there's nothing I can say to change your mind...except maybe that corporations outspend unions 14 to 1 in every Presidential election the past 30-odd years.

 

[Just Jim]

Unions are both more heavily overseen by the government and have far more democracy by their members than do the corporations. And, if you really believe unions influence things more than corporations, there's nothing I can say to change your mind...except maybe that corporations outspend unions 14 to 1 in every Presidential election the past 30-odd years.

Government employee unions have destroyed our Oregon economy with their PERS retirement. Government unions should be illegal. We have more government workers now than people who work as producers and on average government workers get paid far more than regular people. This doesn't work when taxpayers get soaked to to keep the real rich (government employees) in money.



jj

By the way, I was a member of a union for many years and found their election process corrupt as can be. Too often they are in bed with the employers and they will not fight for what is right for the members. Face it; unions and liberal socialist policies are sinking economies globally.

 

[Just Jim]

<broken link removed>

Big Labor's Payoff

Posted 05/25/2010 06:29 PM ET

Unions: Those who give to politicians expect a lot in return. That's clear from the budget-busting payoffs directed largely at organized labor by Democrats in Congress and the White House.

A bill making its way through the Senate would bail out union pension funds to the tune of $165 billion. The bill's author, Democratic Sen. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, wants the public to pay for the gold-plated union retirement benefits that the funds have mismanaged into oblivion.

This has to be galling to average working saps who watch as their 401(k)s and IRAs plummet, only to be asked to pony up billions of dollars in subsidies for unionized workers &#8212; many of whom get to retire into the lap of unlabored luxury while still in their 50s.

Casey's bill isn't the only gift that the White House and Congress have for the unions. Last year, economist and columnist Ben Stein estimated that as much as half of the $862 billion stimulus would go to unions, directly or indirectly. Even that might underestimate organized labor's take.

And just last week, the White House proposed $23 billion in aid to states for education. For education? Well, in point of fact, increased federal involvement in education has had zero positive effect on test scores.

So this money has nothing to do with "the children" or schooling. It has everything to do with teacher unions, which will see billions in payouts from money ostensibly intended for school kids.

In short: bailouts for the unions; higher taxes and penury for you.

So beholden to the unions have the Democrats become, it's fair to say they are a de facto Organized Labor Party &#8212; a far more accurate name than "Democrats."

Don't agree? According to OpenSecrets.org, 12 of the 20 biggest spenders on public elections since 1989 have been unions. In just the 2008 election alone, unions spent $400 million dollars. Virtually all of it went to Democrats.

This shocks even those on the left. "Four hundred million dollars on one election cycle," wrote David Macaray of the lefty CounterPunch, a Web magazine. "What on God's earth were they thinking?"

Well, now they're getting their payback &#8212; kickbacks, if you will &#8212; in the form of massive, billion-dollar public projects that come straight from the pockets of nonunion taxpayers and add further to the fiscal ruin of our nation, now $13 trillion &#8212; and rising &#8212; in debt.

 

[bugeye]

... We have more government workers now than people who work as producers and on average government workers get paid far more than regular people...

jj

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=228

Total US government (fed, state and local) employees is about 21 million, including about 2 million in the military. Total employment is about 130 million people. This ratio is less than 1 in 6 working for the gov, not half. Of course. some clever weasel, could define the term 'producer' to mean almost anything.

I think 1 in 6 is terrible and we can make a case that we have more gov than we can afford based on real numbers.

 

[unionguy]

<broken link removed>

Big Labor's Payoff

Posted 05/25/2010 06:29 PM ET

Unions: Those who give to politicians expect a lot in return. That's clear from the budget-busting payoffs directed largely at organized labor by Democrats in Congress and the White House.

A bill making its way through the Senate would bail out union pension funds to the tune of $165 billion. The bill's author, Democratic Sen. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, wants the public to pay for the gold-plated union retirement benefits that the funds have mismanaged into oblivion.

This has to be galling to average working saps who watch as their 401(k)s and IRAs plummet, only to be asked to pony up billions of dollars in subsidies for unionized workers — many of whom get to retire into the lap of unlabored luxury while still in their 50s.

Casey's bill isn't the only gift that the White House and Congress have for the unions. Last year, economist and columnist Ben Stein estimated that as much as half of the $862 billion stimulus would go to unions, directly or indirectly. Even that might underestimate organized labor's take.

And just last week, the White House proposed $23 billion in aid to states for education. For education? Well, in point of fact, increased federal involvement in education has had zero positive effect on test scores.

So this money has nothing to do with "the children" or schooling. It has everything to do with teacher unions, which will see billions in payouts from money ostensibly intended for school kids.

In short: bailouts for the unions; higher taxes and penury for you.

So beholden to the unions have the Democrats become, it's fair to say they are a de facto Organized Labor Party — a far more accurate name than "Democrats."

Don't agree? According to OpenSecrets.org, 12 of the 20 biggest spenders on public elections since 1989 have been unions. In just the 2008 election alone, unions spent $400 million dollars. Virtually all of it went to Democrats.

This shocks even those on the left. "Four hundred million dollars on one election cycle," wrote David Macaray of the lefty CounterPunch, a Web magazine. "What on God's earth were they thinking?"

Well, now they're getting their payback — kickbacks, if you will — in the form of massive, billion-dollar public projects that come straight from the pockets of nonunion taxpayers and add further to the fiscal ruin of our nation, now $13 trillion — and rising — in debt.

I could punch holes in your arguments all day long...a bill introduced by Casey doesn't mean it will happen...Ben Stein? 1/3 of the Stimulus was tax cuts...so I'd like to see how he cuts his numbers and what "going to the unions" really means...but the real question is: If unions run everything how come the Employee Free Choice Act hasn't passed yet?

Finally, the US has been on a rightward drift for over 30 years...we have went from about 30% of workers being in a union in the early 1970's to 13% today...tax rates have been cut from 90% for the richest 1% in the 1930's to 38% today...there are actually LESS public employees per capita than in the 1970's...we have more 'free market' than we did in the 1970's...more deregulated industries...and on and on. We have followed the Right agenda since at least 1980 (Clinton did nothing signficantly different, passing NAFTA for example and cutting welfare benefits).

So, tell me how you're blaming all of our current ills on unions and socialists?

Personally, I think we took the trip down right-wing ideological fantasy road and the chickens are coming home to roost...we have a devastated manufacturing base...our infrastructure is crumbling...our wages are in steep decline...our TRADE deficits are astronomical and MORE detrimental to our economy than the government debt...and so on.

 

[CEF1959]

Is this gun related?

 

[Just Jim]

Is this gun related?

This is off topic

jj

 

[Just Jim]

"Personally, I think we took the trip down right-wing ideological fantasy road and the chickens are coming home to roost...we have a devastated manufacturing base...our infrastructure is crumbling...our wages are in steep decline...our TRADE deficits are astronomical and MORE detrimental to our economy than the government debt...and so on. "

Well, so much for your comprehension of world events.

While private industry has been moving away from unions and out of the country because of unions and the government unions have fleeced the public to the point of no return.

PERS needs to be changed to government workers working to age 65 and haveing to contibute to their own pension. Government union leeches are quiting work in their 50s and making the taxpayers pay for their laziness. They have allready wasted our money on social programs then want us to pay exstravagant retirements.

It will stop and you are seeing just the start with the 9% state layoffs announced yesterday. There is no money to pay the PERS contracts foisted on us by government and unions. Just keep watching

jj