Why those flintlocks were so tall?!?!

JimmieD · Mar 20, 2019

Saw this in my trapping forum, thought it interesting, no matter if truth, fiction or the stretching of a....tail?!?!

"I once heard, that in the old days "Long Guns" were traded for Beaver Pelts by stacking them up until they reached the top of the barrel.
By making the Gun Barrels longer than before, it would take more pelts being stacked up to reach the top of the Barrel. (sounds like they might be related to some of our modern day Traders).

From its beginning in 1670, the Hudson's Bay Company traded long guns on a large scale. By 1742, beaver pelts were valued at: one pelt for one pound of shot or three flints; four pelts for one pound of powder; ten pelts for a pistol; twenty pelts for a trade gun."

If thats the case then I'd like to stack my trapped beaver on end....one flintlock trade gun please! hahaha

Andy54Hawken · Mar 20, 2019

The fur trade value for furs and trade goods was at a fixed rate ...the myth that one needed to stack beaver as tall as a Trade Musket was just a myth.

Flintlock length was a matter of style and what would sell , at a given time and location.
Andy

JimmieD · Mar 20, 2019

Thought it was a myth, but saw 'flintlock' in the trapping forum and got a lil excited!

Although trapping season right now.....got the flintlock bug and its most of what I try to learn about at this time!

Andy54Hawken · Mar 20, 2019

The flintlock bug is a great bug to have...
Here are a few of mine to look at :

CountryGent · Mar 20, 2019

@AndyinEverson in your travels have you seen many very short muzzleloading long-guns? The ones I can think of are the percussion shotguns that were cut way back by Confederate soldiers, at least one Lupara-style muzzleloader shotgun in Europe, and of course the stocked percussion revolvers. Just curious and I hope the minor tangent isn't an issue.

Andy54Hawken · Mar 21, 2019

Please note that what follows is only my opinion after many years of collecting , studying and shooting of original muzzleloaders , with original ( 18th and 19th century shooting methods ) ...Other folks will have wildly different opinions...

As a very general rule you can find original flintlock barrels from 30-48 inches when made from a factory.
Barrel length varied in size and barrel profile , simply because :
That was how it was done in a certain time or place...kinda like tall tail fins on cars in the 50's and early 60's
Or because that is what sold well at a time and place.

You can find short barrels on original muzzleloaders often on the smoothbore Trade Guns.*
Short as in 30 inches or much less...sometimes you will see a Trade gun cut off at the wrist and having a 10 -16 inch barrel...Kinda like a flintlock Remington "Tac-14" or Mossberg "Shockwave"...

These are sometimes called "Blanket guns" , the terms blanket guns and canoe guns I think are 20th and 21st century terms...I can't recall seeing either of those terms used in the 18th and 19th century accounts that I have read.
* Rifles were shortened as well...but most of the ultra short barreled guns that I have seen , were Trade Guns...

Guns that were shortened , which many originals are , were often shortened "in the field" as it were , due to a plugged barrel , factory barrel was too long , the not very often happening of a barrel bursting...
I would say that most guns were used up so to speak , until a new could be bought , traded for or stolen...

Andy

slidecreek · Mar 21, 2019

AndyinEverson said:
The flintlock bug is a great bug to have...
Here are a few of mine to look at :
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View attachment 560694

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Nice Andy

Rickenbacher39 · Mar 21, 2019

I didn't think flintlocks were tall.
I thought they were long.
I'm so confuused now.

Andy54Hawken · Mar 21, 2019

15-6-6.InterlakeMountainManRendezvous.LeaningMuseum.1963.JPG

Not the best picture...but it can give you an idea of firearm length...
Andy

Andy54Hawken · Mar 21, 2019

As a general rule :
Most barrels are between 30 and 48 inches...depending on the style of the gun and the time period...
Most common length of pull is from 12-13ish inches...
Andy

thorborg · Mar 21, 2019

A little off subject but I often wondered why, somewhere in transitioning to the cap lock, barrels became hex.
I never liked the hex look over the sleek round barrels, and seems an awful lot of added weight which was one reason I never was too enthused to get into cap locks more, since the majority of what I could afford (which were rifled) (and reproductions) seem all to be hex.
Being served by poor memory, somewhere, fairly recently I believe, I read, heard or otherwise acquired the possibly dubious speck of information or folk lore that hex barrels started as ready witness that this gun was a rifle, or had rifling, and was not a smoothbore. Something good to know not just for its new fangled accuracy, but when selecting projectiles for it. Notwithstanding the fact that many during this period still liked the ability to shoot something other than slugs in their muskets and so precluding the new rifled gun.

Hopefully, Likely @AndyinEverson , or someone else, can pin the truth or tale on the donkey of unverified knowledge for me.
Thank you kindly

CountryGent · Mar 21, 2019

Thanks @AndyinEverson for the details.

KKG · Mar 21, 2019

Some how I missed this Yesterday!!!

Andy54Hawken · Mar 21, 2019

@thorborg and anyone else who is interested...

Octagon barrel have been the style for civilian arms for centuries ...long before caplocks.
It was just a "style thing"...sometimes popular and sometimes not.
Mostly they are seen on civilian arms , because of the work involved and the expense of making a octagon barrel look good.
Other than balance the octagon barrel really has no real affect on accuracy.

Octagon barrels can be seen on rifles and smoothbores as well...some firearms will have :
A Octagon barrel ...
Front and rear sights like a rifle...
Rifle style butt plate and triggers along with a rifle style trigger guard...
Yet were made as a smoothbore...these are known as Smooth Rifles.

Some firearms are part octagon and part round barreled ...again these can both be rifles and smooth bored.
Andy

Spitpatch · Mar 21, 2019

Sometimes I can't believe the truth-stretching and conjecture seen here.

Muzzleloaders were (are) generally long barreled for one (obvious to ANYONE with any common sense) simple reason:

A longer barrel reduces the range to the target.

Geez! Doesn't anybody know ANYTHING????

thorborg · Mar 21, 2019

AndyinEverson said:
@thorborg and anyone else who is interested...

Octagon barrel have been the style for civilian arms for centuries ...long before caplocks.
It was just a "style thing"...sometimes popular and sometimes not.
Mostly they are seen on civilian arms , because of the work involved and the expense of making a octagon barrel look good.
Other than balance the octagon barrel really has no real affect on accuracy.

Octagon barrels can be seen on rifles and smoothbores as well...some firearms will have :
A Octagon barrel ...
Front and rear sights like a rifle...
Rifle style butt plate and triggers along with a rifle style trigger guard...
Yet were made as a smoothbore...these are known as Smooth Rifles.

Some firearms are part octagon and part round barreled ...again these can both be rifles and smooth bored.
Andy

Thanks Andy. I know little though have read much, and no where else had I come across that the octagon barrel originated to distinguish between rifling and smooth bore. it just wouldn't digest. I wish I could remember where I read/heard that so I could properly apply "BS" moniker to them.