Simply Triggers
Oregon Rifleworks
Buster Beaver Cerakote
J&B Firearm Sales
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Low Price Guns
Sporting Systems
Defensive Arts
HighLine Firearms
Gun Deals
Southwest Firearms
Messages
632
Reactions
191
Went shooting yesterday and I have a Sig P2022 that I bought new for under $400 iirc. I have kept it in my truck for years. Don't shoot it much but have pulled it a few times for protection. What an under valued pistol. Shot about 10 pistols, and I am by no means a Sig fan boy, but man does this sucker shoot, and shoot accurately! Best gun of the 10 I shot yesterday, well a close second to the Legion P226, but I think that is a different league, not an entry level gun like the P2022. Great gun for the money. Shot my 365xl, yeah that might go up for sale, not sure yet. I defiantly like my glock 43 over the 365. YMMV? o_O sig2022.jpg
 
Traditional muzzle loading rifles , in my experience are often under estimated.
That is until one actually sees them in use or takes the time to learn how to shoot with them.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard :
You will be lucky if that round ball makes it 50 yards...
You can really hit that , with that rifle...?
Those rifles are messy , stinky , heavy and don't work for hunting or targets...
I could retire...and live nicely...:D

With my .54 Hawken rifle copy I have won many a rifle match , some with shooting as far as 200 yards.
I have also kept myself fed with this rifle.
Game that I killed with my Hawken :
Deer..
Black Bear...
Antelope...
Elk...
Grouse ( Head shots only )
Coyote ( Killed , but not eaten )

With a proper fitting round ball and patch...and the appropriate powder charge , a round ball rifle can be used for any game you wish to take in North America , or for a rifle shooting match.
If you wish to use a military style rifle or rifled musket of the 1840's -1860's period shooting a Mine Ball , you will achieve the same result....dead game or good shot placement on the target.
Andy
 

Boboclown

Messages
9,050
Reactions
17,268
Muzzleloaders don't work for hunting. Tales talk of how people would hunt deer in groups with a spear even when muzzleloaders were available.

The muzzeloaders just weren't available to them yet. :rolleyes:
 
Messages
1,286
Reactions
3,219
Traditional muzzle loading rifles , in my experience are often under estimated.
That is until one actually sees them in use or takes the time to learn how to shoot with them.

If I had a dollar for every time I heard :
You will be lucky if that round ball makes it 50 yards...
You can really hit that , with that rifle...?
Those rifles are messy , stinky , heavy and don't work for hunting or targets...
I could retire...and live nicely...:D

With my .54 Hawken rifle copy I have won many a rifle match , some with shooting as far as 200 yards.
I have also kept myself fed with this rifle.
Game that I killed with my Hawken :
Deer..
Black Bear...
Antelope...
Elk...
Grouse ( Head shots only )
Coyote ( Killed , but not eaten )

With a proper fitting round ball and patch...and the appropriate powder charge , a round ball rifle can be used for any game you wish to take in North America , or for a rifle shooting match.
If you wish to use a military style rifle or rifled musket of the 1840's -1860's period shooting a Mine Ball , you will achieve the same result....dead game or good shot placement on the target.
Andy
I agree with you Andy, but you folks also tend to want to make your own boots, wear animals as hats and fight bears with a knife.:)
 
Muzzleloaders don't work for hunting. Tales talk of how people would hunt deer in groups with a spear even when muzzleloaders were available.

The muzzeloaders just weren't available to them yet. :rolleyes:

So are you saying that Daniel Boone and Kit Carson , starved to death , 'cause they hunted with muzzle loading firearms....?
( Spoiler alert...they didn't )

Yes spears , bow and arrows , rocks , and sticks have been used long before the invention of firearms...and even after to hunt with.
All the above will will work for hunting , if one takes the time to learn how to hunt , and learn how to hunt with a spear , bow , rock , stick or muzzle loading firearm.
Andy
 

Boboclown

Messages
9,050
Reactions
17,268
So are you saying that Daniel Boone and Kit Carson , starved to death , 'cause they hunted with muzzle loading firearms....?
( Spoiler alert...they didn't )

Yes spears , bow and arrows , rocks , and sticks have been used long before the invention of firearms...and even after to hunt with.
All the above will will work for hunting , if one takes the time to learn how to hunt , and learn how to hunt with a spear , bow , rock , stick or muzzle loading firearm.
Andy
Was a joke saying the only ones who didn't hunt with muzzleloaders were ones who didn't have muzzleloaders. Cause they weren't available to them.
 
I agree with you Andy, but you folks also tend to want to make your own boots, wear animals as hats and fight bears with a knife.:)

I have made many a pair of moccasins....the wearing of an animal as a hat , was not as popular with folks like Daniel Boone and David Crockett , as folklore / myth makes it to be...and I have no desire to fight anything with a knife....let alone a bear.

While I do get your humor...
My first post here in this thread was simply to say that in my experience many folks dismiss the muzzle loading rifle as useless for hunting or target work.
To do so , is to under estimate the muzzle loading rifle , as it can do both very well , if one takes the time to learn how to use and shoot with it.
Andy
 
Messages
1,286
Reactions
3,219
So are you saying that Daniel Boone and Kit Carson , starved to death , 'cause they hunted with muzzle loading firearms....?
( Spoiler alert...they didn't )

Yes spears , bow and arrows , rocks , and sticks have been used long before the invention of firearms...and even after to hunt with.
All the above will will work for hunting , if one takes the time to learn how to hunt , and learn how to hunt with a spear , bow , rock , stick or muzzle loading firearm.
Andy
The Montagnards of the Central highlands in Vietnam were hunting and killing both Viet long and NVA soldiers with Bows, cross bows and spears. The VC and NVA were scared to death of them. You gotta' wonder when you walk by a dead VC with three arrows in him and his head cut off with a stone knife. Creepy!
 

Wombat of Doom

Messages
2,166
Reactions
4,107
Single shot rifles. Seriously, 454 casull out of my T/C encore is amazing. the 500 S & W magnum barrel,, keeping the sights not vibrating off has been a chore. I have a 30-06 barrel as well, and am getting a 327 magnum barrel for it. But it looks like it belonged to Grandpa (Well the 327 barrel is getting a suppressor, so maybe not that one)

This may sound funny from someone who likes weird space guns, but I feel most at home with a lever action or a break barrel. Would not be my first choice to hold off a mob, but fine guns for all other purposes.Now as soon as Oregon clears my BGC for the Stevens I will cut down, some break barrels of mine may be NFA. But I am finding, the more I shoot, the more I gravitate to wheel guns and levers, falling blocks and break actions.


Steel framed autos. I hear people bash the hi power and such, and inside I laugh a little. Those are mostly guns that will outlive us all. Fine guns.

And I hear people describe various guns as obsolete. Unless you are talking about my beretta 1915 which is in 9mm Glisenti, I can't say too many guns are obsolete. Mine is mostly so because nobody makes 9mm Glisenti that I can find.
 

Boboclown

Messages
9,050
Reactions
17,268
I have made many a pair of moccasins....the wearing of an animal as a hat , was not as popular with folks like Daniel Boone and David Crockett , as folklore / myth makes it to be...and I have no desire to fight anything with a knife....let alone a bear.

While I do get your humor...
My first post here in this thread was simply to say that in my experience many folks dismiss the muzzle loading rifle as useless for hunting or target work.
To do so , is to under estimate the muzzle loading rifle , as it can do both very well , if one takes the time to learn how to use and shoot with it.
Andy
I mean, people undervalue AKs and FALs... Just as they undervalue ARs.

The list of guns that aren't undervalued is a short one when you think about it.
 

Wombat of Doom

Messages
2,166
Reactions
4,107
I mean, people undervalue AKs and FALs... Just as they undervalue ARs.

The list of guns that aren't undervalued is a short one when you think about it.
I would start that list with Glock and Ar personally. Some people overvalue the gun and undervalue the skill required. This is not a bash against either, but I have seen enough people who think owning these make them Rambo Owning a gun is not worth much if you can't shoot worth a darn, and the media tends to portray those as be all, end all weapons systems, and I have met enough people who would miss a target at 7 yards with an AR that I consider those to be often overvalued. An Ar is just a piss poor club if you can't hit with it.
 
Messages
1,286
Reactions
3,219
I have made many a pair of moccasins....the wearing of an animal as a hat , was not as popular with folks like Daniel Boone and David Crockett , as folklore / myth makes it to be...and I have no desire to fight anything with a knife....let alone a bear.

While I do get your humor...
My first post here in this thread was simply to say that in my experience many folks dismiss the muzzle loading rifle as useless for hunting or target work.
To do so , is to under estimate the muzzle loading rifle , as it can do both very well , if one takes the time to learn how to use and shoot with it.
Andy
Yes, yours was a serious and thoughtful response. In the wonderful world of the American 2nd Amendment, there are a myriad of choices a person can make and I'm grateful for the array of choices that are available. However, we tend to like what it is we like and dismiss that which is of little or no interest to us. As a result, there are those in the AK community that would dismiss a particular brand. Others in the rimfire community would do the same. I'm sure you get my point. I've owned black powder rifles, shotguns and revolvers. I grew tired of the fuss and bother and elected to move on to other firearms. I fully understand your affection for the noble muzzle loader.
 

Boboclown

Messages
9,050
Reactions
17,268
I would start that list with Glock and Ar personally. Some people overvalue the gun and undervalue the skill required. This is not a bash against either, but I have seen enough people who think owning these make them Rambo Owning a gun is not worth much if you can't shoot worth a darn, and the media tends to portray those as be all, end all weapons systems, and I have met enough people who would miss a target at 7 yards with an AR that I consider those to be often overvalued. An Ar is just a piss poor club if you can't hit with it.
Meanwhile people get shocked if I hit something at 200 yards using a BRN-180S upper... Yeah 10.5" means more drop, but also means just the same math just different numbers.
 
Lever-actions in revolver cartridges (e.g., .327 Federal, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull, et al.). Many are accurate, hard-hitting, light-handling, capable of taking deer-sized game, enough to make two-legged varmints take a seat, some can be suppressed if one wishes, etc. And with practice, one can become very fast with them.

Da Vinci is reported to have wrote "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." I believe this applies to this class of carbine; they just works. :s0155:
 

Wombat of Doom

Messages
2,166
Reactions
4,107
Meanwhile people get shocked if I hit something at 200 yards using a BRN-180S upper... Yeah 10.5" means more drop, but also means just the same math just different numbers.
I like shooting the gong at 200 yards with a Henry single shot with a cut down16.25 inches and threaded barrel with a suppressor. The holdover is stupid, and realistically, I doubt it would do much other than ring a gong at that range. But ti is very doable and quiet, and fun.
 
Messages
32
Reactions
38
The Smith & wesson Model 14 series revolvers are in some cases way under valued and in most cases just under valued. A lot of them were produced. They are among the finest target revolvers ever made.
 

washagonian

Messages
586
Reactions
898
I am not the best role model for staying on topic, but I will force myself to do so here.

My thoughts about a significantly under valued, under appreciated firearm relate to the Canik TP9 series.

Excellent quality and function - super low price. Inexpensive but definitely not cheap.

Canik manufacturing facilities (in Turkey) are ISO-9001 and NATO certified for manufacturing firearms. They manufacture firearms for several NATO military forces.

For example, the TP9SF out of the box:
  • Standard polymer frame, striker, semi-auto
  • NEW Price: $370 (I've seen them as low as $270 NEW at NW Armory)
  • Cold hammer-forged barrel - 32CrMoN12-10 steel rated for +P - tested to 60,000 rounds
  • Mec-Gar 18-round mags
  • Inter-changable back straps
  • Pic rail
  • Warren Tactical drift-adjustable sights
  • Excellent ergonomics
  • Excellent trigger (4.5 lb, best out-of-the-box trigger I've ever felt for this type of firearm)
  • Standard safety mechanisms: trigger blade, striker block/drop safety
Great shooter, super accurate.

Great "bang for the buck!" ( :) Sorry, couldn't resist).

Fun post topic. Thanks @Gas for getting the ball rolling.
 
Last Edited:

gmerkt

Messages
2,766
Reactions
5,728
but have pulled it a few times for protection.

Wow. Tough neighborhood. Last time I had to pull a gun on someone was in Vietnam. But I can think of one time here that I might've and wasn't armed.

getting a 327 magnum barrel for it.

After my experiences with this cartridge, I think it may work best in a rifle length barrel.

Steel framed autos.

And some aluminum ones, perhaps. Like Smith & Wesson 1st and 2nd generation autos.

Lever-actions in revolver cartridges (e.g., .327 Federal, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .454 Casull, et al.).

Underestimated by some, maybe. Surely not undervalued.
 
Southwest Firearms
Copeland Custom Gunworks
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Let Freedom Ring
Sporting Systems
Cerberus Training Group

Upcoming Events

Jefferson State Shooting Association Gun Show
Klamath Falls, OR
Wes Knodel Gun Shows
Redmond, OR
Rickreall Winter Gun Show
Rickreall, OR

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Top