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What do we do about the teachers?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Karma, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    My brother is in his senior year in high school. Their school has started a strange teaching style where multiple classes are merged together. The class that is of particular concern to me is his English/Civics class.

    In that class, both teachers spend the bulk of the time pushing their political agendas. A HUGE part of that political agenda is to completely discredit the second amendment. They are teaching that it is a collective right, if a right at all. They also are using the good old argument that when the constitution was written that modern guns weren't even thought of and all of that. About a half hour out of each class has been dedicated to their one sided bash on the second amendment. Why the school has a English teacher teaching about the constitution is beyond me anyhow!

    My question is what do we do about all of the anti-gun teachers that are pushing their politics on all our kids? It has to change if we want things to get better. The liberals have been smart. They have planted themselves in schools all over the US. Shaping and molding our children. In my opinion, teachers are there to teach facts, not to push politics. It is present all the way from my daughters grade school, into the Universities I have attended.

    I would like to hear what you all think. I feel that it is a very important issue that we are going to have to address, if we intend to keep our rights safe.
     
  2. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    It is time to go visit with the principal. Take a copy of the Constitution with you. If that doesn't get results, then it's time to attend PTA meetings and school board meetings.
    You may have the right to "monitor" the classes also, if you can spare the time from work.
    Take your copy of the Constitution, Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence with you if need be. If you can, get a history teacher involved too.
    In attending the school board meetings I would enlist the help of any friends with pro-gun views as well.
    Then there is the private or home school option.
     
  3. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    You have to remember that the Constitution does NOT GIVE RIGHTS! According to the Declaration of Independence all people of the world are endued by the Creator with "Certain Inalienable Rights (Inalienable-Cannot be given or taken away)". Therefore the Constitution was written to spell out the rights of individuals. Of course there are many parts of the world where God-given Rights are not recognized. Rights are possessed only by people, not governments. Governments only have such powers as the governed give them. The Bill of Rights is only talking about individuals.
    The Constitution was written to chain up (said Thomas Jefferson) the government and protect the individuals' Rights.
    The words "THE PEOPLE" are found in Amendments #1, 2, 4 and 10. In none of these can the "People" be construed to mean any form of government. Amendment 10 says "The Powers not delegated to the United Sates by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." This is unchallengeable proof that the word "People" in the Constitution can never be twisted to mean a State, collective Rights, the National Guard or any other government organization.
    Probably the most important Right of all is the most forgotten one - #9! "The enumeration in the Constitition, of certain Rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." This means that the Founding Fathers knew that we have also other Rights.
     
  4. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    +1 Took the words right out of my mouth. Screw the public brainwashing system. I know it's an inconvenience but what is more important that our children? I was home schooled through 5th grade and went to private school through my senior year. I can spell, have a decent command of the English language and have good grammar (not all of the time of course:D).

    If publicly funded schools can't even teach kids to read and write properly, then how in Hades do we expect them to teach anything else? My wife is a bi-product of the public school system (educationally supplemented by her parents) and refers to it as 'teaching to the lowest common denominator'.
     
  5. xstayfrostyx

    xstayfrostyx PDX Member

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    The public FOOL system is an absolute joke. What's next, singing songs about our "glorious leader"? Oh, wait...

    "School kids taught to praise Obama"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zrsl8o4ZPo
     
  6. simpleguy

    simpleguy Clackamas Active Member

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    Not only 1 parent should complain, I am sure there are friends of his and parents of those friends that should shut this down.

    A little media would not hurt to let them know, we are all watching and will not let this stand.
     
  7. elsullo

    elsullo Portland Oregon New Member

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    When civics teachers recite that argument that modern "military" firearms were not forseen by the Founding Fathers when they wrote the Constitution and the Amendments, they are trying to rewrite history.

    In that Colonial era nearly every citizen personally posessed the most advanced military weapons in the world. The Colonists mostly used "rifled-barrel" muskets, which were much more advanced than most of the British Crown smoothbore army weapons. Every city maintained its own armory of cannon for its milita to muster, and every small town also maintained a couple of smaller cannon for local citizens to employ in emergencies. The French and Indian War was a very recent memory, and nobody lived very far from the frontier and its possible Indian uprisings. Even major coastal cities had to be prepared for pirate attack, which occurred several times in the South.

    Colonial local militias were always more prominent than any tiny standing army, and when they assembled, THEY BROUGHT THEIR PERSONAL MILITARY WEAPONS WITH THEM. This is the real American history!......................elsullo :cool:
     
  8. fingolfen

    fingolfen Oregon Member

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    I think there are a lot of avenues...

    Obviously there is the talk to the teacher / talk to the principal / talk to the school board route.

    Then, assuming it is a public school, bring local council representatives in - escalate to state representatives from there.

    If you want lasting influence - join the PTA or run for the school board. I intend to be on the school board when my son gets closer to school age...
     
  9. eriknemily

    eriknemily Tillamook County (Cheese!) Member

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    That is thoroughly disgusting. I understand teaching about our political system. I understand even teaching respect for the position of president even if the current president isn't acting in a manner deserving of respect (my dear mother pounded this into my head when Bill Clinton was in the oval office:cigar:). This goes far beyond the anything any publicly funded agency should condone.
     
  10. roguebowhunter

    roguebowhunter medford Member

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    disgusting isn't the word ??? WTF where the parents ??? sorry i have no background i'm assuming this was inner city and not real world ... Don
     
  11. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Well, these "teachers" seem to think they know more than the SCOTUS who decided that the 2nd Amendment IS an individual right when the DC gun ban was challenged, and I believe that the 9th "circus" court even managed to recently issue a decision supporting this as well in another unrelated matter on how a couple other amendments tied together the context of "right(s) of the people"... lay THAT at their feet and see how they shuffle!!!
     
  12. cameronhu

    cameronhu Ridgefield, Wa Member

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    I think the first thing to do, is to stop equating "liberals" with "anti-gun advocates."

    I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume that there are a fair number of folks on this board that may be pro-gov't healthcare, pro-abortion rights, pro-gay rights, agnostic, atheist, anti-religious, pro-Obama, or even <gasp> Democrats. They are also firmly pro-gun. If you begin your argument by calling out your opponents as "Liberals," you've immediately alienated a percentage of your allies.

    If the goal is to enlighten and persuade, stick to the facts. Ask pointed questions. Be respectful. Your brother can do this in his class, and if you arm him with the facts, he'll be a lot better off than if you went to speak with the school staff. This might be different if he were in grade school, but you said he was a high-school senior, right?

    If he's going on to college, it will be a good skill to acquire, as there are a lot of flakey professors out there with an equal number of flakey opinions.

    If the goal is to vent and look for some reaffirmation, well, I suppose this is the place to do it. I'd go a bit easy on the "liberal" thing though. Just my 2cents.
     
  13. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    I agree. There are plenty of pro-gun Liberals and anti-gun (so-called) Conservatives out there. Those who support the right to keep and bear arms are our friends. Let's keep them that way.
     
  14. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I wish all of you folks that have the liberal friends and who are liberal yourselves would spend as much time educating those "enlightened" liberal buddies of yours, as you try to do here with conservative forum members.
    Why do they repeatedly refer to gun owners/carriers as: Neanderthals, ignorant, paranoid, redneck, knuckle dragging kooks etc? How many of you "liberal" gun owners chuckle under your breath at that and don't refute it publicly for fear of reprisal?
    That air of superiority they like to adopt when they start throwing that rhetoric around makes me want to dismiss them for their ignorance, until I remember that they have the ear of the ruling party.
    On to teachers and professors.
    With status as teachers they have a distinct advantage in that they have control of our kids' minds for 8 hours a day. The kids know their instructors have the power of pass/fail in their hands and are subject to a certain amount of coercion as to their thinking where guns and gun rights are concerned, as well as other social/legal issues. Ask any kid that has been subjected to that coercion and most will confess to keeping quiet for fear of failing the class. My son felt he had to. It was so bad he asked us, his parents, to leave it alone because he was afraid it would affect his grade(s).
    For some reason teachers also garner a certain amount of reverence with the public, as if their choice of occupation was/is entirely altruistic.
    One only has to watch the proceedings when the NEA is negotiating a new contract to know that is bunk.

    I suggest we all take up the issue with every anti-gun person out there, regardless of their political leanings.
    I know I have. I have run across very few conservatives who are anti-gun, but those I have were at least open to the argument for gun rights. Unlike most of the liberal anti-gun people that silently wrote me off as some kind of nut. Albeit to my face. It wasn't until others mentioned it that I found out what these people really thought of me,...
    Simply because I believe in gun rights.

    Perceptions need to change, and it it needs to start with the people we already have the ear of because we are "like minded" about other issues.
     
  15. Searcher451

    Searcher451 Oregon Member

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    Don't waste your time with the school principal, or with the teacher(s) in question. Go directly to the school superintendent with specifics: days and dates and details. Ask for a speedy remedy of the situation. If one is not forthcoming, then go to the next school board meeting and state your case there, which would likely result in publicity negative to the district. No district wants negative publicity. Remember that the teachers are the low men on the totem pole. The superintendent and the school board are where policy is made.
     
  16. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    Too many school board members are retired teachers. They should not be. We have the same problem with legislators being lawyers and writing laws that only benefit lawyers.
     
  17. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Complain that discussion of the second amendment and weapons is promoting violence and is harming your child and he/she does not feel safe...:(

    Or, seriously, bring a copy of the Heller case when you go talk to them.
     
  18. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    My point is that no matter what political party they belong to, or what there belief system is, they shouldn't be teaching it in school! The classroom is not a playground for teachers to push partisan politics, or lifestyle views. It is a publicly funded school. It is funded by democrats, republicans, and independents. It should be politically neutral. Yes, these teachers are liberal and do believe in abortion and Obama in addition to squashing our gun rights. I know this because they reprimanded one of the other kids in class yesterday because he said he didn't believe that abortion was right! These same teachers who don't believe that the second amendment is a right, sure viciously support the rights that they believe in!

    I could care less what your political affiliation is. That is the great thing about the USA. You are free to have your beliefs. By God you better not push them on me or my kids though, and/ or try to stomp on our rights. That is what we are dealing with. I could care less what political party those two teachers are, until they start pushing their political views on kids. Then it becomes a problem.

    I understand that there are liberal democrats who believe in gun rights. I would have to guess they are in the minority in my dealings. I myself am a independent. I have no problems with people who have religious beliefs, atheists, hetro-sexuals, homo-sexuals, pro-abortion, anti-abortion, or even Obama supporters, until they try to force their beliefs on others or in public schools. It is happening all over, and it needs to stop now.
     
  19. cameronhu

    cameronhu Ridgefield, Wa Member

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    I agree with you, that for the most part, teachers shouldn't "push" their beliefs in the classroom. They should definitely not reprimand students for challenging those beliefs if the student bases his or her argument on fact.

    The primary point of my post was that any solution to your problem should be issue focused. If you decide to speak with the school's superintendent, you aren't going to be very successful if your complaint is that the teachers are pushing their liberal views on your brother. However, you might be successful if you present a case that the teachers are neglecting to educate their classes on both sides of specific important issues.

    The second point of my post was that like it or not, all teachers have their own biases and opinions. They _will_ teach what they believe in the classrooms. I can think of a handful of college classes where I had to make a choice on whether to continue to challenge a professor on a subject I believed they were wrong about (and risk my grade doing it), or suck it up and regurgitate what the teacher wanted to hear to get a good grade.

    My guess is, that as a high-school senior, this is the position your brother is in. His core beliefs have been challenged, but he's not likely to take their word as gospel.

    If these teachers were elementary school teachers or middle-school teachers, it would be a different story; and I would most certainly speak to the school administrators.
     
  20. el gringo loco

    el gringo loco PDX Member

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    Thank you for saying this. On this and several other threads, I have seen a tendency to make blanket statements that group anyone who does not 100&#37; echo Michael Savage, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc. as one of those "gun grabbing liberals." The fact is that most Americans fall somewhere in the middle of the political spectrum--picking and choosing their beliefs on issues from both sides of the aisle. When we mix issues (ie. healthcare and guns, abortion and guns, religion and guns) we immediately narrow the field of people who are "on our side." Most Americans are pro gun rights.....BUT, that is not the most important issue for many of those people. Given a choice between gun rights and (insert issue here), many Americans will go with the issue that is more important to them. AND...many of those folks that consider themselves pro-gun may see the issue as an area where certain compromises can be made. If we alienate them, they have no incentive to listen to our argument.

    While my experience is anecdotal and in no way scientific, a lot of times this is true.;);)


    I would, however, be careful about believing everything a high school student says as the gospel. I have no doubt that he believes he is telling the truth, but everything the teachers are saying is being filtered through the mind of a young adult. The fact is that teenagers, in various scientific studies, have been shown to stink at non-verbal communication and to have trouble interpreting more abstract communication with adults (ie. sarcasm, devil's advocate, or simply stating where the law stands, regardless of the fact that people have differing opinions). A teacher may have reprimanded a student for a rude statement or incoherent argument (the delivery) and was interpreted by a teen as a reprimand for the opinion (the content). Unless he is directly quoting the teacher, a good portion of this could could be how he INTERPRETS what is being said, not what was actually said. Then again, the teacher could be an Obama drone trying to indoctrinate your brother into the new world order/communism/socialism/fascism.