“We’re not coming out to save you”

[EHJ]

So... on a lighter note

 

[turbo_vanner]

It may be that the absolute fringe of Antifa are the terrorist wannabes and most of the group is not, but the judgement on that group will be led by its worst offenders. Unlike people, however, groups can shed those responsible for atrocities and can redeem themselves of the labels thrust onto them by those violent actors.

The fact that Antifa chooses to harbor those people instead of ostracize them tells you all you need to know about the group ethos as a whole.

you could say the same about PP/PB and white supremacists.

 

[EHJ]

you could say the same about PP/PB and white supremacists.

Say what? No - really... I've read this reply and quote for more than a few minutes... I see no corollary to what Hueco said - and your reply...

What "could say the same about PP/PB and white supremacists" mean?

And for the record - could you please define for me a, 'white supremacist'? You use that term quite liberally here. It's a common day catch-all phrase I hear constantly. It's attention grabbing, for sure - but... unless you've ever come face to face with a true WS - you wouldn't be so casual.

 

[CRBMoA]

Equating the PBs to Antifa is all you need to know.

That's not even apples and oranges; that's apples and terrorists!

 

[Hueco]

you could say the same about PP/PB and white supremacists.

I could and do, when they're the topic of the conversation.

You seem to be under the impression that, in order for one to be critical of a left wing thug organization that idealizes terroristic action, one must also prepare to be critical of right wing thug organizations that idealize terroristic actions...in the same post no less.

I find this tactic often employed by those who disagree with the initial criticism, and instead of debating the initial points on their merit decide to slyly toss out an ad hominem by trying to pair the speaker with a negative group, that wasn't even the topic of conversation, using the flimsy logic of: You didn't criticize X so you must believe in X...all in the hopes of disproving the original point.

So, yes, I could say the same about them. Please start a thread about white supremacists and I'll be happy to critically post there as well. Until then, if you're looking to critique my posts based on things that I have not said...well, don't. Let's stick to the merits of the words as written. Thanks.

 

[turbo_vanner]

that works for me. I just bring them up since pretty much any and all antifa activity, which is what this thread is about, is directly related to PP/PB, and the folks they allow to join them, and is absolutely in the topic of conversation. No PP/PBs hosting racists? No antifa problem. Its a connection worth mentioning anytime someone thinks antifa is just wrecking havoc on portland willy-nilly.

as far as ad hominems, I don't remember calling anyone out for supporting nazis, especially by way of bashing antifa, and certainly don't think anyone posting here is, except for that one guy who just flat out admitted it a few weeks ago. That was weird.

 

[EHJ]

No PP/PBs hosting racists? No antifa problem. Its a connection worth mentioning anytime someone thinks antifa is just wrecking havoc on portland willy-nilly.

No - afa is wreaking havoc across the country at the personal and financial behest of shall-not-be-named entities in order to foment the continued division of our country. They are proudly [domestic] terrorists and should be treated as a threat to our nation. I and probably half the folks here took a literal oath to defend against same.

 

[NW Backpacker]

Someone is still digging a hole.

Clint Eastwood might put it this way:

 

[Mikej]

I'm not going to get drawn into a ridiculous debate with you. Do your research on the 2016 Portland riots from Nov. 10th-12th and that bit of damage will be a lot more come next election if Trump is re-elected.

I didn't want a debate either. I just asked the question, and sadly, got the same basic response I have seen before.

And if President Trump is elected for a second term, I would hope our panty waste mayor would use appropriate steps to arrest people that break the law this time. I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Mikej]

Just from what I've heard, one of the guys he stabbed pushed him once or twice while confronting him about his harassment. Another was filming on his phone, which agitated him, and the third was stabbed from behind. I don't recall there being a 'beatdown' but the first victim may have technically started the physical contact.

This was all prefaced by two days worth of verbal abuse on the max towards brown folks. I'm just saying im keeping an eye and ear out for that kind of behaviour, and not worrying about someone with the antifa patch on their messenger bag.

That ^^ is all I had seen. Then I saw the part of a video, the one the media hadn't been showing, that showed the victims throwing Jeremy Christian to the ground twice. Don't get me wrong, Christian NEEDS to be put away, maybe even for the rest of his life. Hell, it could be argued that he should have been in an institution ALREADY! From what little I've seen and read it sounds like he has some serious mental issues. And, he had shown himself to be a danger to society before the stabbings. WUT?

 

[HA556]

I didn't want a debate either. I just asked the question, and sadly, got the same basic response I have seen before.

What ever! My answer was to do some searching on your own. You obviously wanted something else so you could debate the response. I'm done!

And if President Trump is elected for a second term, I would hope our panty waste mayor would use appropriate steps to arrest people that break the law this time. I won't be holding my breath.

This we can agree on!

 

[bbbass]

According to Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at the California State University, San Bernardino, antifa activists feel the need to participate in violent actions because "they believe that elites are controlling the government and the media. So they need to make a statement head-on against the people who they regard as racist".[8] According to Mark Bray, the adherents "reject turning to the police or the state to halt the advance of white supremacy. Instead they advocate popular opposition to fascism as we witnessed in Charlottesville".[23]

The idea of direct action is central to the antifa movement.[44] Former antifa organizer Scott Crow told an interviewer:

The idea in Antifa is that we go where they [right-wingers] go. That hate speech is not free speech. That if you are endangering people with what you say and the actions that are behind them, then you do not have the right to do that. And so we go to cause conflict, to shut them down where they are, because we don't believe that Nazis or fascists of any stripe should have a mouthpiece.[8]

According to Beinart, antifa activists "try to publicly identify white supremacists and get them fired from their jobs and evicted from their apartments", and they also "disrupt white-supremacist rallies, including by force".[44] According to a Washington Post book review, "Antifa tactics include 'no platforming,' i.e. denying their targets the opportunity to speak out in public; obstructing their events and defacing their propaganda; and, when antifa activists deem it necessary, deploying violence to deter them."[24] According to National Public Radio, antifa's "approach is confrontational," and "people who speak for the Antifa movement acknowledge they sometimes carry clubs and sticks."[46] CNN describes antifa as "known for causing damage to property during protests".[8] Scott Crow says that members of antifa believe that property destruction does not "equate to violence."[8] The groups have been associated with physical violence in public against police[47] and, according to The Los Angeles Times, they have engaged in "mob violence, attacking a small showing of supporters of President Trump and others they accused, sometimes inaccurately, of being white supremacists or Nazis."[48] Antifa activists used clubs and dyed liquids against the white supremacists in Charlottesville[49] and caused property damage

I don't typically trust Wiki but this one cites a lot of source materials at least: Antifa (United States) - Wikipedia

 

[Xaevian]

There is a world of difference between a protest/rally/march and a riot. The 1st amendment gives people the right to peaceably assemble. The Supreme court has affirmed on more than one occasion that any group, including white supremacists and anti fascists have this right.

A group wants to march, let them march. They want to protest, let them protest. Rally? Go ahead.

An opposition group has the same rights. Pick a different day or place, or choose not to infringe on either group's own rights. It's not that complicated. Frankly, I don't think much of either previously mentioned groups. I do respect their right to peaceably assemble, though. Rioting by any group should not be tolerated.

 

[Hueco]

that works for me. I just bring them up since pretty much any and all antifa activity, which is what this thread is about, is directly related to PP/PB, and the folks they allow to join them, and is absolutely in the topic of conversation. No PP/PBs hosting racists? No antifa problem. Its a connection worth mentioning anytime someone thinks antifa is just wrecking havoc on portland willy-nilly.

as far as ad hominems, I don't remember calling anyone out for supporting nazis, especially by way of bashing antifa, and certainly don't think anyone posting here is, except for that one guy who just flat out admitted it a few weeks ago. That was weird.

I agree that the PB/Antifa dichotomy is a toxic one but disagree that if one disappeared, so too would the other. I also disagree that, had PB never developed, Antifa wouldn't have either.

Antifa has been around for a while but stepped up their activism in response to Trump being elected. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Trump but those aren't the ones that facilitated Antifa's recruiting strategies over the time period. Buy-in to the "Trump is Hitler" rhetoric is what grew their numbers. That hatred spilled over to Trump's party in short order (all Republicans).

It wasn't a fight against PB Racists that led to over $100k in property damage being done to Berkley in the lead up to a speech by Milo Yiannopoulos. The same destructive actions have been leveled at many bread and butter conservative speakers in that part of the world.

It wasn't a fight against PB that led to the Anti-KKK rally and the property damage, harassment of passersby, and harassment of police that ensued there.

Antifa isn't a response to PB. They're a response to increasing polarization in this country and heightened alarmist reporting by the media. If you literally thought that Trump was Hitler and was going to gas the brown people as soon as he got into office, well, Antifa has a black sweater and bandana with your name on it.

Now, they do oppose PB and the fringe elements on the right, that's fair enough. But they also oppose everything to the right, fringe and middle of the road alike.

This last demonstration by them proves that they're wreaking Portland all willy-nilly. Nay a KKK member in site and they still managed to deface a memorial, throw stuff at cops, and harass people going about their day. Honestly, when was the last time the actual KKK held any sort of event here? Not the PB, not Patriot Prayer, not any other right wing group or fringe right wing group - the actual KKK? And why would they hold a protest here, now? To be honest, this stinks of a hoax: Someone in Antifa plays a KKK organizer to get on the books so that Antifa can "scare" those evil people away - showing that they're oh-so-awesome. Except, they still managed to come out of this looking like pestilent children.

Any and All Antifa activity is related to PB, you say? That's demonstrably false.

 

[bbbass]

Per my earlier statement regarding justifying actions:

In a new episode of Fox Nation's "No Interruption," Tomi Lahren sat down with the president of Black Lives Matter of Greater New York, Hawk Newsome, who argued that his organization and others like it are justified in using destruction to call attention to their grievances with American society.

"The riot is the language of the unheard," said Newsome, who compared modern-day protests to The Boston Tea Party.

Good Lord, how could they be unheard today? It's a constant drumbeat!!!

 

[bbbass]

Welcome back to the '60s!!!

 

[EHJ]

To be honest, this stinks of a hoax: Someone in Antifa plays a KKK organizer to get on the books so that Antifa can "scare" those evil people away - showing that they're oh-so-awesome.

Bingo.

 

[titsonritz]

No body ask you to, just stay out of the way and don't come looking for me after I deal it.

 

[gryghin]

let me know when someone from antifa goes off on a racist tirade and stabs three people in the neck on the max, killing two of them, or runs someone down in their jeep due to racial hatred. ...

You mean like this?

Dayton shooter Connor Betts may be antifa’s first mass killer

Over the weekend, America suffered two mass shootings within hours of one another, in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio. These followed another mass shooting in Gilroy, Calif., a week earlier. The a…

nypost.com