Wells Fargo won't do business with "weapons" related businesses

[The Heretic]

Hogue Inc: "Wells Fargo Refused Our Business Due to Weapons Manufacture." - The Firearm Blog

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[Flopsweat]

Politics over profit? Of have they had a visit from Bloomberg?

 

[Osarion]

I sort of view this kind of thing the way I view the whole "gay wedding at wedding cake baker" scenario.

If you choose to turn away someone that wants to give you their money, so be it. Someone else will get their money and you can pay your bills with your principals. And you absolutely should have the right to do that.

 

[AMProducts]

Heard about this one a few days ago... I find it rather odd, as I bank with wells and the name of the company has "ammunition" in it.

 

[Swedish K]

Wasn't there a similar problem Stag arms had a year or two ago? Had to switch banks? Also, about that time wasn't there a problem with some credit card companies refusing to process charges for "weapons manufacturers" ?

If more of them start doing this we should start "gunbank" and only deal with weapons manufacturers/sellers and gunfolk? All employees would have to carry on premises and annual bonuses would be paid in ammo....

 

[Osarion]

Wasn't there a similar problem Stag arms had a year or two ago? Had to switch banks? Also, about that time wasn't there a problem with some credit card companies refusing to process charges for "weapons manufacturers" ?

If more of them start doing this we should start "gunbank" and only deal with weapons manufacturers/sellers and gunfolk? All employees would have to carry on premises and annual bonuses would be paid in ammo....

As silly as that sounds, that is capitalism. You seize the opportunity to earn a profit where others are too inept/foolish/incapable of doing so, and you win.
Imagine if you were the one and only bank that gun manufacturers did business with. That would be a nice little business you'd have for yourself.

 

[clearconscience]

I sort of view this kind of thing the way I view the whole "gay wedding at wedding cake baker" scenario.

If you choose to turn away someone that wants to give you their money, so be it. Someone else will get their money and you can pay your bills with your principals. And you absolutely should have the right to do that.

I'm with you, or places refusing service to police officers. How is that not the same as refusing service to LBGT or certain religions?

Just like every other liberal arguement. Pot calling the kettle.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to injustice everywhere.

 

[edslhead]

Their number 3 an determined to stay that way

 

[The Heretic]

It is capitalism and their choice until the government tells the bank that they shouldn't do business with certain types of other businesses, and then it is government repression.

Operation Choke Point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Member 3687]

I guess I agree with some it's your business you should be able to run it the way you want but at the same time if we are not allowed to discriminate based on religion, race, or gender why should they be able to discriminate against a legal business both state and federal.

But hay what do I know, I stopped trying to make sense of the world some time ago.

 

[MountainBear]

Funny, they've been doing business with me for years. Gunsmith, retail gun shop, merchant services, checking, savings, loans. All knowing what I do for a living. Well, sad change of events...

 

[Lange22250]

At least the Portland branches work with one of the biggest gun clubs on the west coast. Don't know about the rest of it but there can be other reasons for a bank to choose not to work with a business. Corporate accounts are a very different animal from personal accounts. Maybe they had a clear look at what Stage was doing and made a good decision based on what happened to them.
There is usually more to these stories than what's in the news release.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Politics over profit? Of have they had a visit from Bloomberg?

It's called operation choke point, started under AG Eric Holder, of F&F fame...

"For the past several months, the U.S. Department of Justice has been pressuring banks to refuse service to businesses the DOJ is targeting politically, such as gun stores, in a program entitled Operation Choke Point."

Under the program, the DOJ, headed by Attorney General Eric Holder, is attempting to shut down various legal businesses, including firearm dealers, dating services, purveyors of drug paraphernalia and pornography distributors, by coercing financial institutions to close the bank and merchant accounts associated with these businesses.

Holder's Latest Scandal: DOJ Now Pressuring Banks to Refuse Service to Gun Stores

 

[decklin]

It's amazing they have a moral issue with legal businesses yet this is the same Wells Fargo that got caught laundering $380 billion for the cartels.
What was their punishment? A $50 million fine. Not jail time, not loss of business. A fine that didn't even make a dent in the money they profited from blood.

 

[Dungannon]

Hogue Inc: "Wells Fargo Refused Our Business Due to Weapons Manufacture." - The Firearm Blog

Did Wells Fargo disarm their guards? Just saying...

 

[edslhead]

So they wont do business with manufacturers supplying the military?

 

[SBC97281]

There is usually more to these stories than what's in the news release.

I also suspect there is more to this story than we have heard. A local branch employee may have made a bad decision and it is taking on internet meme status quickly. Or Hogue could have been turned down for some other reason related to their finances. We could even be "being played" as readers by a viral marketing campaign.

If Wells Fargo was systematically dumping weapons related companies from there business lists, we would hear about from more than one place than a facebook post that is getting repeated and repeated without verification or investigation of the rest of the story.

Wells Fargo holds funds from and shares in a wide variety of businesses related to weapons, arms, and so forth. On Stockzoa.com you can see that March of this year, Wells Fargo held 25,553 shares of Ruger and 331,231 shares of Smith and Wesson -- both noted arms manufacturers. If all of a sudden those drop to zero, then there may be a lot more going on. The two links you can verify this on are:

Who owns Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation? Top holders of SWHC according 13F SEC filings - stockzoa & Who owns Sturm, Ruger & Company? Top holders of RGR according 13F SEC filings - stockzoa

I do not have the whole story on what went on with Hogue. And, Wells Fargo is far from a totally wonderful corporate entity. But, few large institutions make decisions in a knee jerk reaction like that. They are just to big.

It may be prudent to see how the rest of this story plays out before closing accounts and dumping positions.

 

[The Heretic]

This is not the first bank to do something like this for gun related businesses.

As pointed out, by myself and others, this is part of an effort by the justice dept. to pressure financial institutions to not do business, at the banking level (not pressuring anybody to not buy stock) - i.e., do not provide them with banking services - with various financial services (checking, savings, loans, credit card services to handle purchases, etc.)

The alleged reason is that these types of businesses are sometimes a source of money laundering and fraud.

There have been other businesses - gun shops, and so on - that have reported these problems.

So yes, this isn't an isolated instance where some single bank employee decided on their own to do this, and it isn't just Wells Fargo.

Just google "operation choke point".

Here again is an article on this effort by the government to harm businesses it doesn't like for whatever reason (and the current admin does not like guns or gun businesses):

Operation Choke Point - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And some banks, such as Wells Fargo, for whatever reason, are cooperating.

 

[AMProducts]

FWIW, I'll take wells most days of the week over Citi, BofA, and a lot of the other major financials. I'd like to shift over to a CU, but at the moment, I really need the versatility of a national bank, as I'm constantly traveling, and I often need to do business in branch.

Personally, I would like to see a gun friendly bank start. There was a real threat of this happening when operation chokepoint was in full steam, and at the moment there are currently gun friendly merchant services companies that have started for exactly this reason. The same thing has been happening with product liability insurers and others.

 

[The Heretic]

Yeah, I switched to a local CU some years ago when I moved here - gave me ~2% on my checking funds, bill pay and online access. Pretty much what most "banks" offer, except for the interest which many do not.

Previously I was with Schwab who has offices but not branches so not convenient.

I don't travel much anymore so don't need to have access outside my local area, which is good because the CU doesn't have offices outside the local area. Mostly I got there every couple of months to get cash over the ATM limit or to deposit a check - everything else is either paid online or with plastic. I don't write checks anymore - just have the CU send them occasionally (takes 5 to 10 days to send the check, not sure why - maybe someday banks will have faster processing of a check, but right now it isn't a big deal for me).