Water in California and the rest of the western USA - going, going, gone...

[03A3Sporter]

Had California not been allowed to steal water from others for generations , the state would never have grown like it has..

 

[sunuvaB]

I'm pretty sure that people drink a cup of water and then they p a cup of water. No water is destroyed in the process. The exited solution will filter naturally if it's committed to nature.

Running out of water is an imagined problem that doesn't really exist.

If you believe running out of water isn't a problem, I would think a better answer is that the earth is made up of 2/3 water. The oceans are unbelievably large containers of water. But the problem isn't the existence of water-- it is the availability of water for use by people in specific places and for specific purposes. Only a very small portion of the water on the planet is drinkable. Only a very small portion of the water we need for irrigation is located where farming takes place. If that cup of pee goes into a sewer or a river that drains into the ocean, it's not destroyed but it's salt water now and we need the help of a stable climate, currents and jet stream to get it back.

 

[sunuvaB]

It's difficult to take a crisis serious when gooberment is bringing in millions of people from other countries. Same crap when they demand you quit useing so much water but gooberment employees use water three times a week to wash gooberment cars. It's really hard to believe in all this demand we cut back on fuels when those who demand it fly in huge jets all over the world.

Honestly if the left wants to sell us that we need to make changes then the left should remove the log from their own eye.

I certainly agree with your charge of hypocrisy, but you're speaking in such broad terms that I think the point gets lost. Hollywood activists and tech billionaire might be flying jets but that's a pretty tiny portion of the left. I've had to move to storing water dropped in winter for use in summer. With a drip system, our gardens and fruit trees very little of our well water. It's taken three years and significant cash to get it done. No one demanded I do it other than Mother Nature, I guess.

 

[Certaindeaf]

One almond takes 3 gallons of gas and one cubic acre of water to produce.






Lol, good enough for me

 

[sunuvaB]

The bigger picture is that here in the USA, and worldwide actually, water is in short supply.

Did anyone see the movie or read the book The Big Short. It's about a handful of people who could see the '08 crash coming and made billions shorting banks.The first to see it coming was Micheal Burry (played by Christian Bale) and everyone else was using his playbook. He was sued by the people he made rich and investigate (harassed) by the government he tried to warn. He gave up on traditional investing. His ONLY investment now is water.

 

[The Heretic]

Did anyone see the movie or read the book The Big Short. It's about a handful of people who could see the '08 crash coming and made billions shorting banks.The first to see it coming was Micheal Burry (played by Christian Bale) and everyone else was using his playbook. He was sued by the people he made rich and investigate (harassed) by the government he tried to warn. He gave up on traditional investing. His ONLY investment now is water.

A number of people during that time predicted both the dot com and mortgage bubbles. The mortgage bubble predictions were why I waited so long to shop for real estate. When I finally got around to looking at buying (I got tired of people saying the bubble would collapse and decided that it wasn't going to), it did collapse and I got laid off (the investors in the startup I worked for were firms like Morgan Stanley). Eventually I moved here and bought my current property - now it is worth double what I paid for it 9 years ago.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

http://www.wired.com/2015/10/devastating-chart-shows-why-el-nino-wont-fix-the-drought/

It isn't just the drought, and it isn't just California.

Oregon has severe aquifer problems too.

http://www.opb.org/news/article/study-aquifers-draining-quickly-less-in-pnw/
http://www.blueoregon.com/2007/03/oregons_approac/

And indeed, the rest of the country too:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...er-california-drought-aquifers-hidden-crisis/

Clean water for drinking, cleaning, growing food and other uses is very important for survival.

The basic problem boils down to this: there is a finite amount of clean potable water; 97.5% of the water on earth is salt water, that leaves 2.5% being fresh water, with over 1.5% being locked up in frozen water (mostly the polar ice caps), which leaves less than 1% being usable potable water.

Every day the earth's population grows.

The math is inescapable and should be plain for anybody to see; more people equals plus a fixed finite amount of potable water equals less water per person. Even if we solve the problems with pollution, even if we are lucky enough to live in an area where climate change won't have a local effect on our water supply (and given this summer, I have a real doubt about that supposition), more people will mean less water - and people are not inclined to stop reproducing.

The bigger picture is that here in the USA, and worldwide actually, water is in short supply. This is causing problems. It will increasingly cause problems. California produces a lot of food. Oregon, it seems to me, is somewhat self-sufficient (or could be) right now when it comes to water, food and energy - but our population is still growing. Don't think for a second that won't continue. Indeed, as California gets worse, I expect to see a significant increase in migration from California to the PNW.

Prepare for it.

On an anecdotal level; my neighbors have their wells drilled to 250' to 450' deep. Mine is 120' and I have not problems with water supply. One at 250' just had to have his well pump lowered because his water level dropped 40' in the last decade. Here on the mountain we get 50% more rain than the valley, but most of it runs off down into the valley. This was a pretty dry year for us too - we had to be very careful about fire danger.

I grew up in the heart of the Central Valley in CA. I now CA water and its history first hand. CA has plenty of water. Nothing has really changed except politics. It NEVER rained there between May and October, not now and not 70 years ago That area has ALWAYS been dependent on irrigation to grow crops, and that irrigation water ALWAYS came from the melting snow pack in the Sierras. What's changed is a cyclical drop in snow accumulation, along with the fact that CA is now DUMPING 70% OF THE AVAILABLE FRESH WATER IN ITS WATER SYSTEM STRAIGHT INTO SF BAY.

That's right. They are dumping fresh water from rivers and reservoirs straight into the bay in order to protect the non-existent Delta Smelt (nobody has seen any in a long time). This probably extinct fish is costing CA and everyone else billions of dollars in lost agricultural and industrial production per year. 100 year old vineyards and orchards are dying and being ripped out as you read this. Farmers are plowing crops under. Why, because the federal government, which controls the water allocations from federal water projects has allocated 0% of the normal agricultural water allocations. This is a man made disaster and you need look no further than the Sierra Club which receives money from China with which to sue our government and influence our elected officials to place the blame.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Did anyone see the movie or read the book The Big Short. It's about a handful of people who could see the '08 crash coming and made billions shorting banks.The first to see it coming was Micheal Burry (played by Christian Bale) and everyone else was using his playbook. He was sued by the people he made rich and investigate (harassed) by the government he tried to warn. He gave up on traditional investing. His ONLY investment now is water.

Iran owns a bunch of huge crop circle operations in Colorado. They grow and export to themselves hay and alfalfa.

 

[sunuvaB]

A number of people during that time predicted both the dot com and mortgage bubbles. The mortgage bubble predictions were why I waited so long to shop for real estate. When I finally got around to looking at buying (I got tired of people saying the bubble would collapse and decided that it wasn't going to), it did collapse and I got laid off (the investors in the startup I worked for were firms like Morgan Stanley). Eventually I moved here and bought my current property - now it is worth double what I paid for it 9 years ago.

Good for you! I too believed the predictions and sold my California house for triple and bought a banked own property in Oregon which sold for double and paid for our dream property, but I doubt any of that happens without Micheal Burry. He saw in 2005, by looking into the details of mortgage bonds, that a collapse of the housing market would begin in 2007. To short Mortgage Backed Securities, he INVENTED the credit default swap and put down a billion dollar bet. Many of us are prophets of doom, but I know of no one else who bets a billion on something 2 or 3 years out... is all I'm saying.

BTW. Too Big to Fail is a very good movie, too. Boring book mostly, but the details of the AIG bailout and the board meeting where the fate of western civilization hung in the balance are mind blowing. It really let's you know how little "elites" control. One example: president of investments division at B of A (don't quote me on any of the details) is fired because he lost billions of the banks money. A month later, the bank realizes they didn't understand any of the paper they now held and had to hire him back as a consultant for $1 Million a month. Mind blowing

 

[NWF McKeon]

Governments around the world are experimenting with forcing clouds to rain. Look it up. Not only is water in high demand, but humans are bubbleguming with global natural rain cycles which will inevitably change every landscape on earth. If people aren't concerned with water availability then they aren't paying attention.

 

[NWF McKeon]

So, here's an elegant solution. "Scientists" swear the oceans are rising and in 50 years coastlines will dramatically change due to this "drowning" cities like NY, NO, etc. We build large coastal desalination plants...I mean we suck up that ocean water by the billions of gallons, convert it to freshwater to drink or at the very least...agriculture... We have an inexhaustible supply of water and we keep the sea level rise in check.
Don't give me a bunch of technological excuses, we put men on the moon nearly 50 years ago.
Brutus Out

Desalination is indeed a solution, but that could come with its own consequences such as dwindling habitat for fish which are already an over taxed resource. The desalination process also requires quite a bit of energy - sure, just another drop in the big scheme of energy consumption but it's still one more thing to consider.

Another thing to consider is how much the government will charge you for it. The question isn't whether we can or not, the question becomes who has access to water for how much money. Knowing our government they'll privatize that bubblegum and having water will become a pay-to-play system and somehow the Supreme Court won't find access to water a basic human right when it inevitably goes to court... They'll find a way to give the ocean to Nestle.

The government doesn't care about you, they only care about how much money they get from you.

 

[The Heretic]

Desalination is very expensive, and requires a huge amount of energy, not to mention supplies. The remaining salt (after the osmosis filters are back flushed) is another issue too. There is a reason desalination is not very widely used.

 

[Siglvr]

Yes, it's a manufactured crisis. They are trading farmers/land food production for some fish. I don't know the exact or the specifics, but they all but are doing this to themselves. California knows they have massive dry years so they build a water storage system so that they can go 5 years and smooth out the dry years. 2 years back they had a massive amount of water. Now everyone is upset and seeing a looking disaster as they were earlier taken to court by environmentalists and Natives and by the time the courts were though instead of a 5 year system, they have a messed up incomplete non-system. This was predicted many many years back. The book "Cadillac Desert" laid it out in the 80s or 90s. The bill has come due, and California will likely get you, me and the rest of the country to pay for it.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/california/water-and-drought/article251710398.html

 

[sunuvaB]

California knows they have massive dry years so they build a water storage system so that they can go 5 years and smooth out the dry years. 2 years back they had a massive amount of water.

What water storage system. I assume you don't mean tanks of some kind. If you mean damns . . . Can't imagine where or even how new ones were built. Back to the storage tank idea. (This is just fun with numbers) Normal water usage of the 30 million Californians over 5 years would be 5.5 Trillion gallons. As this is supplemental call it half that. To store that would require 13,000 super tankers, which is five times the number that exists in the world. A physical storage system the size of 13,000 super tankers would be the greatest engineering project of the modern world.The cost would be interesting. If it cost half as much to build this storage facility as it does to create an equal number of super tankers, it would about $750 Billion or 50 time California's largest expense, it's prison system. I love spreadsheets.

 

[JedB]

If you all want to read something on the general topic, I would suggest Cadillac Desert.
Well researched, well written.
Scary as fsck with what the implications are.

 

[arakboss]

If you believe running out of water isn't a problem, I would think a better answer is that the earth is made up of 2/3 water. The oceans are unbelievably large containers of water. But the problem isn't the existence of water-- it is the availability of water for use by people in specific places and for specific purposes. Only a very small portion of the water on the planet is drinkable. Only a very small portion of the water we need for irrigation is located where farming takes place. If that cup of pee goes into a sewer or a river that drains into the ocean, it's not destroyed but it's salt water now and we need the help of a stable climate, currents and jet stream to get it back.

We should be better utilizing that water before it is turned into saltwater.

Edit: I like to think of the river as a tap and the ocean as a drain. Letting all that freshwater go down the drain is a waste, especially with all the concerns that the oceans are rising. Same goes for ice melt. Use it or lose it.

 

[sunuvaB]

If you all want to read something on the general topic, I would suggest Cadillac Desert.
Well researched, well written.
Scary as fsck with what the implications are.

View attachment 901066

Just bought it. Thanks

 

[gmerkt]

There is no water shortage. There is a growing shortage of CHEAP water.

 

[coop44]

"I live in a desert!" B. S., I'm from Yuma, real desert. No scrub brush, tumbleweeds, no seasonal greening, nothing but rock and sand. Drill for water? Good luck drilling through solid volcanic rock into, you guessed it, more rock. No matter how deep you go, no water. The poor colorado river, once as wide as 200 yards is but a trickle and disappeared before it reaches the gulf.
Wonder where they film alien landscapes? Yuma, probably looks more like mars than mars does.

 

[coop44]

There is no water shortage. There is a growing shortage of CHEAP water.

Somewhat correct. Lots of water is where people don't live. Where people want to live, like socal there are no rivers, or natural bodies of water. How stupid is that?