Washington WA State Law - Private Transfers as “Receiver Only”

[jzilla]

Hi All,

I'm hoping to clarify my understanding of WA state law regarding private transfers of pistols. Specifically, my understanding is that if a "complete" firearm is being transferred, then WSP runs the background check and includes psychiatric history, as well as criminal history, and a holding period as mandated by WA state. If a stripped or new receiver is being transferred, it can be run through the FBI database for quicker transfer because it is not considered to be immediately useable (in the eyes of the state). As such, it is illegal to transfer a complete pistol as just the receiver/lower, due to the transfer process imposed by the state.

I imagine there are nuances here I may be missing, or my understanding may be entirely off base. As a private seller, I am interested in understanding this issue fully as I have no interest in giving the state or any LE agency cause to come after me. CYOA.

Lastly, I do ask that responses are based solely in legal understanding of this. I know that many opinions of constitutionality, fairness, equity, logic, etc. exist in regards to this issue - and I respect all those opinions. However, I would genuinely like to understand the explicit legalities here.

PS. I looked for a thread covering this, but could not find one. My apologies of there is already one on the forum.

Thank you!

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[User 1234]

There are threads about this on NWFA and other sites.

The key is that WA uses a different definition of "firearm" than the federal government does. From there the conversation branches apart into different scenarios.

 

[jzilla]

There are threads about this on NWFA and other sites.

The key is that WA uses a different definition of "firearm" than the federal government does. From there the conversation branches apart into different scenarios.

Thanks for the input, I wasn't able to find these threads maybe I was searching the wrong terms.

 

[Alexx1401]

Since ANY transfer has to go through an FFL here an easy way to get your answer may be to simply ask the local FFL you are interested in using. Lot of them due these transfers here for people who want to sell. So stop in one you like, or have been wanting to look over, while there just ask. How they handle this. I have to assume they know if they are doing it. If nothing else who does not like stopping in a shop to drool, "look" at guns?

 

[User 1234]

Since ANY transfer has to go through an FFL here an easy way to get your answer may be to simply ask the local FFL you are interested in using. Lot of them due these transfers here for people who want to sell. So stop in one you like, or have been wanting to look over, while there just ask. How they handle this. I have to assume they know if they are doing it. If nothing else who does not like stopping in a shop to drool, "look" at guns?

Well, parts of this are not completely accurate, as they assume that a "firearm" is being transferred. In some cases it is not.

 

[Alexx1401]

Well, parts of this are not completely accurate, as they assume that a "firearm" is being transferred. In some cases it is not.

Did I miss something here?
I thought the OP was asking about transfers of a lower, so had to assume he means a serial numbered lower that does need an FFL.

 

[jzilla]

Did I miss something here?
I thought the OP was asking about transfers of a lower, so had to assume he means a serial numbered lower that does need an FFL.

Thanks for your response, and I apologize if my original wording wasn't entirely clear. I have heard that many FFL's will transfer a complete firearm (i.e. functional) as just the receiver, in order to use the NICS as opposed to waiting for WSP to process. I have actually called an FFL and been told this is potentially illegal; I've heard similar from a friend who was formerly in LE. I'm just trying to understand what the law says about this scenario, as I also understand that liability falls on the seller and not the FFL or buyer.

Again, thanks for your input!

 

[Zingularity]

Thanks for your response, and I apologize if my original wording wasn't entirely clear. I have heard that many FFL's will transfer a complete firearm (i.e. functional) as just the receiver, in order to use the NICS as opposed to waiting for WSP to process. I have actually called an FFL and been told this is potentially illegal; I've heard similar from a friend who was formerly in LE. I'm just trying to understand what the law says about this scenario, as I also understand that liability falls on the seller and not the FFL or buyer.

Again, thanks for your input!

It's not "potentially" illegal, it is clearly illegal. A pistol as defined by 9.41.010 is: "...any firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand."
Pistols, under this definition, can be transferred only after either 1. The LEA in the purchaser/transferee's jurisdiction has completed their background check and approved the WA state Firearms Transfer Application, or 2. 10 business days have elapsed from the date the FFL requested the local background check.

30 days after the Washington State Patrol takes over all state background checks, (who knows when that will be) transfers of frames and receivers will also have to pass WA checks.

 

[bradsteen]

Regarding trusting the FFL, I've seen them handled in different ways by different FFLs (and even different ways by employees of the same FFL) based on their "interpretation" of the law. I've seen some interpret the "receiver" part as only applying to stripped AR15 lower receivers, others as "any stripped receiver" (Glock, AR, or otherwise), and still others as "any receiver lacking an upper and stock" (also Glock, AR, or otherwise).

I've also seen folks try to take advantage of the later by separating the lower and upper, handing the buyer the upper outside, and transferring the lower inside... this kind of thing would undoubtedly result in legal action if they were caught, and potentially get the FFL in trouble if the prosecution could prove knowledge of the arrangement.

In short, I would advise against trying to get creative on transfers. The potential downside (being convicted of a felony and losing your gun rights) is far more severe than having to wait a few extra days, and if the buyer is trying to avoid a specific facet of the state-level check, I would not want to go anywhere near that transaction. Go to the FFL and transfer the firearm in whatever condition the buyer should be receiving it as. If the buyer has a problem with that, you should find a different buyer.

 

[User 1234]

Did I miss something here?
I thought the OP was asking about transfers of a lower, so had to assume he means a serial numbered lower that does need an FFL.

This gets very detailed from this part of the discussion. Certain definitions apply to certain situations. One cannot paint with a broad brush and assume the federal definition applies to situations where federal law does not control. Sometimes they are borrowed and sometimes they are not.

Buying a receiver from an FFL involves federal law because the federally-licensed dealer must follow federal law and those federal laws use federal definitions. Other situations require their own separate analysis.

Here is a link to some earlier discussions: https://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=123381

I am not going to be posting much in this thread, because I don't want to help the anti freedom crowd fix their errors.

I will agree with the poster above that it is not a good idea to get cute and try to transfer a gun (I am avoiding the word firearm) to a buyer in two pieces to be creative. I'm not giving anyone legal advice, just saying it is a complicated topic when state and federal law are different.

 

[Alexx1401]

This gets very detailed from this part of the discussion. Certain definitions apply to certain situations. One cannot paint with a broad brush and assume the federal definition applies to situations where federal law does not control. Sometimes they are borrowed and sometimes they are not.

Buying a receiver from an FFL involves federal law because the federally-licensed dealer must follow federal law and those federal laws use federal definitions. Other situations require their own separate analysis.

Here is a link to some earlier discussions: https://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=123381

I am not going to be posting much in this thread, because I don't want to help the anti freedom crowd fix their errors.

I will agree with the poster above that it is not a good idea to get cute and try to transfer a gun (I am avoiding the word firearm) to a buyer in two pieces to be creative.

OK I did miss that then. I thought someone was asking about selling a lower and would they just be able to meet the buyer at an FFL and transfer without the huge PITA transferring a hand gun is now. I did not see what they were talking about was trying to "get around" the damn laws here by selling it is parts to someone. That I would not want any part of either. Reason I currently own more guns than I have ever in my life had at one time is the hassle of selling.
All my life I loved buying, playing, selling to buy something else. Now days when I buy it just stays as its too much damn trouble to sell unless I wanted to take a huge hit in money, which I am not willing to do. So I guess when I pass on the family can worry about getting the cash out of them

 

[jzilla]

Thank you everyone for such detailed and informative responses - and for taking time out of your days to help clarify this for me. Generally speaking, you all have reinforced my base thoughts on this. The situation arose where I was asked to misrepresent the state of the firearm in the transfer paperwork and I declined to do so. However, the potential buyer was adamant that it was a perfectly legal course of action, so I wanted to do my due diligence in gathering information. At the time my understanding was that it was in fact an illegal course of action, which has been confirmed here, specific to that situation at least.

Again, thank you so much for your comments and the link to additional discussions!

 

[Alexx1401]

Thank you everyone for such detailed and informative responses - and for taking time out of your days to help clarify this for me. Generally speaking, you all have reinforced my base thoughts on this. The situation arose where I was asked to misrepresent the state of the firearm in the transfer paperwork and I declined to do so. However, the potential buyer was adamant that it was a perfectly legal course of action, so I wanted to do my due diligence in gathering information. At the time my understanding was that it was in fact an illegal course of action, which has been confirmed here, specific to that situation at least.

Again, thank you so much for your comments and the link to additional discussions!

You were correct to be careful. Selling is a PITA here now. When someone wants you to try to "work around" the laws here best to just say no. To me it's not worth the money made for the sale to not be 100% sure of what I am doing. If you have trouble selling the gun one way around it is to find a shop who will sell it for you on consignment. Many will do this, for a fee of course. The upside is you do nothing other than bring them the gun and agree on a price. Then if they can find a buyer the shop deals with everything.

 

[bradsteen]

Thank you everyone for such detailed and informative responses - and for taking time out of your days to help clarify this for me. Generally speaking, you all have reinforced my base thoughts on this. The situation arose where I was asked to misrepresent the state of the firearm in the transfer paperwork and I declined to do so. However, the potential buyer was adamant that it was a perfectly legal course of action, so I wanted to do my due diligence in gathering information. At the time my understanding was that it was in fact an illegal course of action, which has been confirmed here, specific to that situation at least.

Again, thank you so much for your comments and the link to additional discussions!

Thank you for doing your due diligence and asking questions - too many people make assumptions and end up creating more fodder for the anti-gun argument.

 

[jzilla]

You were correct to be careful. Selling is a PITA here now. When someone wants you to try to "work around" the laws here best to just say no. To me it's not worth the money made for the sale to not be 100% sure of what I am doing. If you have trouble selling the gun one way around it is to find a shop who will sell it for you on consignment. Many will do this, for a fee of course. The upside is you do nothing other than bring them the gun and agree on a price. Then if they can find a buyer the shop deals with everything.

Yeah I'm just finding this out, I bought all my guns intending to keep them so this is my first go at private transfers. I've considered consignment, but I also don't really want to sell my gun, so extra fees serve as self-justification to keep it Thanks again for your thoughts!

 

[jzilla]

Thank you for doing your due diligence and asking questions - too many people make assumptions and end up creating more fodder for the anti-gun argument.

I agree! And sifting through the trove of laws and regulations can be a bit daunting, so it's often easy to take the convenient path.

 

[jzilla]

It's not "potentially" illegal, it is clearly illegal. A pistol as defined by 9.41.010 is: "...any firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand."
Pistols, under this definition, can be transferred only after either 1. The LEA in the purchaser/transferee's jurisdiction has completed their background check and approved the WA state Firearms Transfer Application, or 2. 10 business days have elapsed from the date the FFL requested the local background check.

30 days after the Washington State Patrol takes over all state background checks, (who knows when that will be) transfers of frames and receivers will also have to pass WA checks.

Thank you so much for responding with cited legal definition!

 

[Alexx1401]

Yeah I'm just finding this out, I bought all my guns intending to keep them so this is my first go at private transfers. I've considered consignment, but I also don't really want to sell my gun, so extra fees serve as self-justification to keep it Thanks again for your thoughts!

I hear that. I had to invest in another safe after they changed the laws here. Started to get enough guns they would not fit and I am not willing to go through the hassle or loss to sell. Sadly it also keeps me from buying often. Often a gun I would like to buy but I hold off wondering if I will want to sell it later and add another one to the pile of not used