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Vancouver axe-attack prank ends in 2 arrests

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by civilian75, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. civilian75

    civilian75 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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  2. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Very lucky he wasn't shot. A man running at me with an axe would definitely force me to draw.

    Reminds me of a few friends who discovered those "blood pills" they have for movies.
    The put a few in their mouths and started to pummel each other outside a bar.. The fake blood made it look like the real deal especially when one guy was on the ground and the other was pretending to kick him.. so cops were called, They still got in some hot water for some "disturbing the peace" charge or something like that.
     
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  3. Charles98683

    Charles98683 Vancouver, WA Member

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    I would hope that a CPL holder would have the presence of mind to not fire without loudly announcing his/her ability to protect themselves first.
    But if you see some nut job barreling down on you with an axe raised it'd be hard to imagine a scenario where you wouldn't be justified in stopping the threat. Its so outside the 'norm' to think that you're being "pranked", but I guess this is another story that we who carry need to consider when confronted with a threat.

    Personally speaking, I'm confident in my ability to run away from a person with an axe and my sidearm wouldn't be my first option... That is, unless, I had my children with me. In that case, sadly, the story would read, "Don't bring a fake axe to a gun fight".

    I hope that people with teenage kids will take this opportunity to discuss the legal consequences of terrorizing others (even if its funny), and also the potential lethal consequences of making someone fear for their life.
     
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  4. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Like that teenage girl recently who got talked into jumping out of a closet with a rubber knife and got shot dead. I love a good prank but before performing one you better know your target very well. For instance, no one that knows me would want to put on a 'Scream' mast and come running at me with an ax unless the goal is suicide. Scary stuff, stay safe out there and think before doing stupid pranks.
     
  5. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    From their names it sounds like they might be descended from folks behind the old Iron Curtain. Which everyone knows was a gun free zone. So it probably never entered their minds somebody they attempted to prank might pull a Glock and shoot pew, pew, pew before he/she realized it was a rubber axe. You can't fix stupid but likely they will make the national news and get their 15 seconds of fame.

    Brutus Out
     
  6. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    hopefully a judge will order them neutered before they can spread their "stupid" genes.


    (Not going to happen but I can always hope)
     
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  7. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    In a split second, Id rather have the reaction to defend than to assume and later run. Of course most of us CHL holders have better situational awareness to allow us to perceive a threat from a distance.. But when you're juggling about a thousand things (kids, business call, perhaps a business email) while filling up your tank or doing what ever if they sneak up with a weapon your first reaction should be to draw, perhaps not fire but definitely draw. When split seconds count Id rather draw first and ask questions later when they're pissing their pants.

    Just warning an aggressor heart set on harm, rape or mugging you just tickles them pink. Its a few extra seconds for them to get that much closer. Now a distancing weapon can put precious extra yards or feet between you and that said aggressor.

    Im all for trying to NOT shoot first and ask question later, but adding a level of bureaucracy to the act of self defense gets people killed.
     
  8. Charles98683

    Charles98683 Vancouver, WA Member

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    I agree with you and I wasn't saying that someone shouldn't react to an armed threat with appropriate level of force up to and including deadly force but for me personally I will always look for the easy way out if I'm alone. If I have my kids with me or for some other reason I can't turn tail and run then sure I'll stand my ground. Either way I know that the laws where I live would be on my side.

    Generally speaking I'm always thinking about how I could evade a threat wherever I am so I like to think I'd be better prepared to act quickly whether it be swallowing my manly pride and running or protecting myself and my family. Situational awareness is always your best defense and more often then not that awareness alone can save you without having to fire your gun.
     
  9. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    Bill Murray in Zombyland?
     
  10. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Oh ok, my apologies. Reading it this afternoon it came off as a jab but I was multitasking.
    I fully agree that swallowing ones pride and just being the bigger man and walking away is most often the wisest choice. I try and tell a lot of younger guys (younger than me) that being a hot head or tough guy is the quickest way to get thrown in jail or lose your 2A rights and that words are just words and that walking away from the fight allows the person to live and fight another day.. More often when it should really count.

    Being my size and being at a bar.. Many guys with "little man complexes" want nothing more than to fight me (unprovoked) to somehow prove something to their buds, woman or them self and its another reason why I try and not hang out in those types of environments anymore.
     
  11. Charles98683

    Charles98683 Vancouver, WA Member

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    I'm a very large guy as well and I know how it goes when the lil' fellas get some alcohol in them. Before I started carrying I'd always stand my ground and fortunately that only got me in a couple minor scrapes. Now that I carry more often than not I find that I'm often acting like a sissy to avoid confrontation and have actually had to beat a hasty retreat a couple of times. It hurts my pride a little but its not worth it to risk having to injure, or worse, someone just cuz my pride wouldn't let me wuss out.

    That's just the price we pay to be the "good guys"
     
  12. Charles98683

    Charles98683 Vancouver, WA Member

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    Also, in Washington we can't carry in a bar even if you're not drinking so I now have to get my buffalo wings and potato skins at a restaurant. On the plus side fewer drunks, on the negative side costs a little more.
     
  13. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    You said it.
     
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  14. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    Halloween pranks are meant to be scary, thats the point. for a group of people who stand behind tradition on many things, im surprised you guys havnt said anything about that. no one got hurt and he clearly took no risks with anyone elses safety, this should be ignored by the courts to allow taxes to go to taking bad guys off the streets.
     
  15. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    Sophomoric, juvenile and stupid are tradition? The fact that no one got hurt is just dumb luck, not foresight or planning. I have a tradition, try and pull that B.S. with me and find out what it is.
     
  16. Charles98683

    Charles98683 Vancouver, WA Member

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    No person has the right to make another fear for their life. That's why the teens were arrested and should see some jail time. Granted, it was an ill advised prank and not an overtly violent assault but still their was a victim and a perpetrator so they need to be dealt with by the courts. I'm sure this will result in a plea deal and not a significant charge.

    From a societal standpoint, I see kids entertaining themselves with a prank of this nature and wonder how much of a leap it is to an actual assault for entertainment. Sadly we've seen far too many thrill beatings/killings where the perpetrators were just bored teens. Even if there is a linear connection to an escalation of violence, I'm not suggesting that these teens be dealt with more harshly. That would be beyond the purview of the courts.
     
  17. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Announcing or issuing a challenge is probably going to get you in trouble if you use force after that. Everything I have read and researched is that lethal self defense requires an immediate threat to you. Draw and fire. No challenges, no announcements. You felt you had no time to issues such orders, you were in fear for your life.

    Hopefully any situations you got in, you may be able to talk your way out of. I have researched,and found the words and word groups to use, to maybe convince a criminal not to take action against you. Of course, you and I have no clue how a criminal thinks or reasons, and until you understand some of that thinking, you will not be effective in resistance.
     
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  18. Charles98683

    Charles98683 Vancouver, WA Member

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    Generally speaking you're 100% right and I would always suggest not drawing unless it is to fire but in the context of this news story there was a particularly rare set of events. The way I interpreted what happened was a guy with an axe raised running at people from a distance greater than the 21ft. rule. In that very rare case where there is a lethal threat coming at you but not close enough to be legally considered "immediate", I could see being able to stop a threat by presenting a firearm and not firing.

    Also, according to stats that have been presented by John Lott and others who have written books on self defense with firearms, far more people use a gun to stop a violent crime without shooting as opposed to actually drawing and firing. Personally I wouldn't attempt to scare off someone with a gun just for the legal issues involved. If you don't have to shoot, it should stay in its holster (in nearly all cases).
     
  19. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    Haven't the coppers changed from the 21 foot rule to something like 40 feet??

    Sheldon
     
  20. Charles98683

    Charles98683 Vancouver, WA Member

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    Depends on the jurisdiction I'd imagine. But then, the cops have a lot more leeway when it comes to use of force.

    I would carry a taser too if the law said I could use it when someone doesn't obey my commands.