Uberti High Wall Advice

[SuperBreed]

Looked in the catalogue but couldn't really find any answers.

A few months ago I got a new to me Uberti 1885 high wall in 45-70. The rifle has been great. I've reloaded and shot around 100 rounds out of it using trapdoor load data. From my research I can't track down any information as to what the rifle is rated for in terms of pressure. I'm totally content shooting the loads I've been shooting, I'm not trying to push the envelope or anything. I am just looking for some experience other shooters have had with higher pressure loads. I have some Hornady 325gr factory loads that are rated around 35,000. I haven't tried to contact them yet, but from my research it seems uberti is pretty tight lipped about what pressure their rifles can take. I have seen claims anywhere from 18,000 all the way up to 40,000 from other shooters, I have shot handloads that, according to my data, should have been producing around 27,000. I was hoping a fellow member may be able to share some of their experience if they have any.
I'm of the mind that the rifle is modern, made with modern metal, it should be able to take up to 1886 lever action loads. Thanks for any help.

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[bcp]

Some of the original 1885 high walls were chambered in a special rimmed 30-06.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/57/1007/winchester-1885-rifle

However, the 45-70 has a larger base area and may approach 30-06 bolt thrust at much loser chamber pressures.

Some reloading guides have three levels for the 45-70. I would probably feel safe with the middle level.

Personally I would stay with trapdoor loads. I don't like having loads around that could blow up the wrong rifle. (someone buys them at a yard sale after I am run over by a bus)

Bruce

 

[SuperBreed]

Thanks for the info Bruce. I know some of the original loadings had pretty high pressure. Being a falling block action it should be stronger than any trapdoor, modern or not.

My books all have different sections for the different actions as well. I agree that the rifle should be good up to the lever action load(middle level).

As I said I'm totally fine shooting at the levels I have been(high trapdoor). I'm not keen on loosening my teeth every time I go out. Like I said I got some of the factory hornady 325s and would like to occasionally use them or possibly hunt with them.

Im very new to reloading, been at it about 8 months. It seems that 45-70 doesn't exhibit a lot of the tell tell signs of pressure. Flattened primers being the main one. I know the cases can swell some near the rim, stuck cases, any other suggestions of things to look for as I work up?

Currently have some test loads with 300gr HP loaded with H335. Also have some tests loaded with 405gr with IMR4198 and IMR3031. The IMR4198 did great with some 350gr plated bullets I had. So far the only jacketed bullets have been the 300gr HP.

 

[bcp]

45-70 doesn't show the usual pressure signs as it is working at much lower pressures, even with the heaver loads.

Roughly:
Trapdoor loads around 15-18,000
Lever loads around 20-30,000
Ruger #1 loads 30-40,000

Bruce

 

[SuperBreed]

That's correct. I know stuck cases and swelling of the case above the rim can happen at higher pressures in 45-70, any other signs to look for?

The book I use most is Lees most current edition. I also use Speer, hornady, and Hodgden. According to Lee
Trapdoor loads max around 27,000
Lever action loads up to 40k
Ruger #1 up to 50k.

Lee is the only one I have that shows pressure data, but the charges are pretty similar across all the books when looking at FPS provided.

Hopefully someone with some experience with the high wall reproductions sees this and can chime in.

 

[Spitpatch]

The Winchester High Wall is a strong action in itself. As you predicted, modern steels make it more so.

I cannot speak from personal experience shooting high pressure in an original (Mine's a .25-20 Single Shot), but I own two of the Browning B78's chambered in the high pressure cartridges .22-250 and .25-06. Of course they will handle anything you feed them. I owned one in .45-70 for a while, and the crescent buttplate precluded "testing" the strength of that action to any degree whatsoever.

It is understandable that a manufacturer of a reproduction gun be "cagey" about action strength. Shiloh is the same way. On that note, I have a Shiloh Sharps 1874 chambered in .30-40 Krag, and I load it to .308 Winchester velocities without a hiccup.

I wonder what your ultimate purpose for the gun will be. You will not want to shoot a "full tilt boogie" load out of a .45-70 for very long at all (whether or not the gun will handle it). My Siamese Mauser .45-70 can be loaded to chase on the heels of the .458 Winchester, but I do NOT consider it a "recreational firearm".

Without being the manufacturer, I can assure you that any load you find pleasurable to shoot for whatever purpose you desire can be handled by that gun.

If it were me, it would be a 525grain soft lead round nose pushed by black powder in the neighborhood of 60 grains. Pressure concerns can take a hike.

 

[ORhutner]

Unless a manufacturer states otherwise, any new production firearm should be manufactured to withstand SAAMI/CIP spec for the respective chambering.

You can get pressure data and loading options at the Hodgon reloading data center: https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

 

[SuperBreed]

Spitpatch, I don't know that I have a current goal with the rifle. 45-70 is brand new to me, so really I'm just trying to learn as much as I can.

I'm very interested in black powder loads, I just don't have the time to learn a whole new thing currently. Right now I'm just experimenting with different combinations of components to see what it likes. I would like to eventually take an elk with it. Not in the near future but still something I've had in mind.

The Uberti I have has a crescent buttstock so not looking to go wild with my loads in any case. I have a couple boxes of factory hornady ammo that will probably last me a lifetime. Thats about as stout as I would wanna go if they produce 35,000(read online) Gonna call hornady today and confirm that number. Since shooting the rifle, I have adjusted my shoulder pocket and cheek weld to account for the buttstock, that's for sure. It has been great shooting it though. I do have a shotgun style recoil pad on the way I'm going to try out. Slips over the stock, going to cut some styrofoam to fill the void.

 

[SuperBreed]

Thanks everyone for the replies and info.

 

[dangerranger60]

High wall actions are very strong. the action could take more than my shoulder! I would not be afraid of any load made to shoot in a lever action. Or up to around 35000 psi.
Have fun with this one, your shoulder will tell you when to quit! DR

 

[Mark W.]

It is my understanding that the High Wall Action is only second to a Rugar Single shot in strength. I did a LOT of reading about the Uberti reproduction version of the 1885 High wall in 45-70 and its my understanding they can handle anything currently available on the market. I have not done any loading for my 1885 Uberti yet. Just been to busy.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Is Uberti still in business? Just a hunch but they'd probably know.

 

[JRuby]

The Winchester High Wall is a strong action in itself. As you predicted, modern steels make it more so.

I cannot speak from personal experience shooting high pressure in an original (Mine's a .25-20 Single Shot), but I own two of the Browning B78's chambered in the high pressure cartridges .22-250 and .25-06. Of course they will handle anything you feed them. I owned one in .45-70 for a while, and the crescent buttplate precluded "testing" the strength of that action to any degree whatsoever.

It is understandable that a manufacturer of a reproduction gun be "cagey" about action strength. Shiloh is the same way. On that note, I have a Shiloh Sharps 1874 chambered in .30-40 Krag, and I load it to .308 Winchester velocities without a hiccup.

I wonder what your ultimate purpose for the gun will be. You will not want to shoot a "full tilt boogie" load out of a .45-70 for very long at all (whether or not the gun will handle it). My Siamese Mauser .45-70 can be loaded to chase on the heels of the .458 Winchester, but I do NOT consider it a "recreational firearm".

Without being the manufacturer, I can assure you that any load you find pleasurable to shoot for whatever purpose you desire can be handled by that gun.

If it were me, it would be a 525grain soft lead round nose pushed by black powder in the neighborhood of 60 grains. Pressure concerns can take a hike.

Do you know by looking at a Browning rifle wether it is a B78 or a 1885 highwall? I purchased one in 6mm remington and am curious.

 

[Spitpatch]

Do you know by looking at a Browning rifle wether it is a B78 or a 1885 highwall? I purchased one in 6mm remington and am curious.

Silver (blank) medallion on the pistol grip cap? I believe that's a quick determiner. They varied on buttstock shapes/buttplates as well. The '85's were supposed to have an improved trigger, but the ones I shot were not much better than the '78's. The only drawback to these fine guns.

Of course serial number range would be a positive indicator.

Edited to add. My money says you've got a '78 just based on caliber (6mm was well on its way out when the '85's were introduced.) Blue Book does not list it for the '85 (but Blue Book is constantly proven wrong).

 

[JRuby]

Silver (blank) medallion on the pistol grip cap? I believe that's a quick determiner. They varied on buttstock shapes/buttplates as well. The '85's were supposed to have an improved trigger, but the ones I shot were not much better than the '78's. The only drawback to these fine guns.

Of course serial number range would be a positive indicator.

Edited to add. My money says you've got a '78 just based on caliber (6mm was well on its way out when the '85's were introduced.) Blue Book does not list it for the '85 (but Blue Book is constantly proven wrong).

Thank you for the information.

 

[Mark W.]

Best way around any trigger issues with an 1885 is to get the version with a double set trigger Like mine. I can adjust it to anything I want from a few ounces to a few pounds.

 

[JRuby]

Here it is - I should get my hands on this next week.

 

[Spitpatch]

Best way around any trigger issues with an 1885 is to get the version with a double set trigger Like mine. I can adjust it to anything I want from a few ounces to a few pounds.

Not same same where the Brownings are concerned. Internally they are not a copy of an original High Wall. Coil springs, etc. in the Brownings. Canjar made a wonderful trigger for them (Past tense).

 

[Spitpatch]

Here it is - I should get my hands on this next week.

View attachment 1480003

Fat Barrel! My ex had one in 6mm and didn't mind carrying it, because it shot so well.

 

[SuperBreed]

Here is mine. Think I'm going to go with a period correct scope for it. The sight on it is pretty nice but I think I'd like a scope better