Tri-County Muzzle Rule Example Photo

[RicInOR]

This photo is stolen from the web (a Washington State Match. )
Had it taken place at TC, the competitor would be enjoying a dilly-bar.


If you know the shooter, I am not singling them out. Just grabbing an example.
I am sure this was safe, and legal at the club where and when this photo was taken.


At every match this is covered. And I usually get asked a clarification question or two. Not an argument - it is just sometimes hard to visualize.

What is the issue?
Muzzle is pointing over the berm.

Yes, I can see the slide is locked back and the chamber appears empty.
Finger is clear of the trigger guard.
Does not matter.


Rules are slightly different for wheel guns, and shotguns.




In my opinion, this rule will be coming to more ranges. Especially as the population in an area encroaches upon them.

A skill to have: reloading without pointing the muzzle up.

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[Member 34319]

That is the standard reloading procedure where it is allowed. Which is most places I know of, except Tri-County. I was recently at a competition at the English Pit, and though they are in a closer to populated area, they do not require a muzzle down reload.

Tri-County apparently had an accident a while back where a bullet made its way out of the range and into the siding of a house, or something like that, got the story from a member there. Since then they cracked down on any opportunity for a bullet to go somewhere it doesn't belong.

 

[NWGlockgal]

That is the standard reloading procedure where it is allowed. Which is most places I know of, except Tri-County. I was recently at a competition at the English Pit, and though they are in a closer to populated area, they do not require a muzzle down reload.

Tri-County apparently had an accident a while back where a bullet made its way out of the range and into the siding of a house, or something like that, got the story from a member there. Since then they cracked down on any opportunity for a bullet to go somewhere it doesn't belong.

My understanding is that it happened during police training, and that it was not a club member that caused it.
However, if one round gets out and does something more than impact siding, the club could get shut down or sued out of existence.
So although I hate the rule, I do understand it.

 

[uscsoldier]

With the arm ink and jacket not hard to figure out who the shooter is

 

[Member 34319]

My understanding is that is happened during police training, and that it was not a club member that caused it.
However, if one round gets out and does something more than impact siding, the club could get shut down or sued out of existence.
So although I hate the rule, I do understand it.

I agree, it is a shame the rule exists, but it makes sense.

 

[mkwerx]

So practicing reloading in an akward inefficient way is the mandate for Tri County. If all you train for is a game, ok. But training to fight if need be - its stupid. I get it - liability ruins everything. People move next door to airports and gun ranges and auto shops then bubblegum about noise, bullets, exhaust, traffic etc.

I don't shoot at Tri County and with such rules in place, I have no future plans to. I understand why they have the rule, even if I think its stupid.

 

[NWGlockgal]

So practicing reloading in an akward inefficient way is the mandate for Tri County. If all you train for is a game, ok. But training to fight if need be - its stupid. I get it - liability ruins everything. People move next door to airports and gun ranges and auto shops then bubblegum about noise, bullets, exhaust, traffic etc.

I don't shoot at Tri County and with such rules in place, I have no future plans to. I understand why they have the rule, even if I think its stupid.

It's really not an issue for most people. I've seen people shoot USPSA at Albany and Dundee and then shoot IDPA at TriCounty. You
just have to remember change the way you reload at TC, and after awhile you get used to it and it's just as efficient as muzzles up.

 

[Koda]

I was taught in class to keep the muzzle on the threat during reloads. The threat cant tell if the gun is in slidelock when its aimed straight at them. They can if you maneuver it to facilitate mag insertion like the OP's picture shows.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

A skill to have: reloading without pointing the muzzle up.

I disagree. A skill to have is, follow the basic four firearm rules. One is to keep your finger off the trigger until you intent to shoot.

A berm rule is just as subjective as the cover rules in IDPA and the reason I have no interest in shooting IDPA and lost interest in shooting at Tri-county. If the muzzle of a pistol raises above the berm on recoil while the shooters finger is on the trigger there is no DQ. However, if they take their finger off the trigger and reload they are DQ'ed?

 

[Certaindeaf]

What a blockhead. lol, get it?

 

[NWGlockgal]

I disagree. A skill to have is, follow the basic four firearm rules. One is to keep your finger off the trigger until you intent to shoot.

A berm rule is just as subjective as the cover rules in IDPA and the reason I have no interest in shooting IDPA and lost interest in shooting at Tri-county. If the muzzle of a pistol raises above the berm on recoil while the shooters finger is on the trigger there is no DQ. However, if they take their finger off the trigger and reload they are DQ'ed?

At least they got rid of the subjective cover rules. They have fault lines now. Much better.

 

[P7M13]

The logic is simple. Be safe, no one gets hurt.
Also, we live in a litigious society, and a bullet escaping the grounds can have a tragic effect. TCGC has deep pockets, and any bottom dweller would be happy to tap into that stream.
IIRC, they did have a car window (windshield?) from a shotgun pellet >5 years ago, and established the rule no shot larger than #7½.

Though I haven't competed, I was certified for Action Rifle there - where muzzle control was drilled. @Koda 's suggestion, reload with your muzzle on target, was what we were encouraged to do. Not much of a change in method, but IMO, a F of a lot safer.

Since that certification session, I reevaluated many of the mindless, repetitive procedures I do in my job, where a small bit of carelessness can lead to catastrophic results affecting thousands of people.

So while you may call it stupid or restrictive, I think it's pragmatic and smart.

 

[Koda]

I think there is going to be a slow shift in reload technique to keep the muzzle on the threat (target)... It just makes more sense to me from a tactical standpoint....

But not just tactical, from a safety and liability standpoint. Can you imagine in real life spoiling an otherwise righteous shoot under real stress with a flyer causing damage or death cause we were too proud to accept a new technique because it was implemented in the name of range safety and range liability? Any condition that causes range liability is the same liability for the individual. Tilting the barrel skyward during reload is not exercising muzzle control, rule #2.

 

[Meridian7750]

Above 2 posts were spot-on.
Well said, guys

 

[PiratePast40]

Maybe I'm a little slow and just don't see the connection, but is it that common for people to reload with their finger on the trigger and then fire the gun while releasing the slide? I've never seen it, but can imagine it happening, just wasn't aware that it was so common.

 

[Republican]

This photo is stolen from the web (a Washington State Match. )
Had it taken place at TC, the competitor would be enjoying a dilly-bar.


If you know the shooter, I am not singling them out. Just grabbing an example.
I am sure this was safe, and legal at the club where and when this photo was taken.
View attachment 395421

At every match this is covered. And I usually get asked a clarification question or two. Not an argument - it is just sometimes hard to visualize.

What is the issue?
Muzzle is pointing over the berm.

Yes, I can see the slide is locked back and the chamber appears empty.
Finger is clear of the trigger guard.
Does not matter.


Rules are slightly different for wheel guns, and shotguns.




In my opinion, this rule will be coming to more ranges. Especially as the population in an area encroaches upon them.

A skill to have: reloading without pointing the muzzle up.

I will have to do a drill to see, but I think the only time I reload muzzle down is while quad loading the shotgun. ( See how I was able to brag about being able to quad load there ? )

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Kind of a silly question...can you shoot muzzle loaders at the range in question?

When loading a muzzle loading rifle you generally place the rifle butt on your shoe or ground , then with the muzzle pointing up and away from your face , load powder , patch and ball....
Then prime or cap your rifle.
The only time my rifle is pointed down range or below "the berm" would be when priming or capping my rifle.
( when loading )

I load from my shooting bag without a lot of extras ....but even the guys who insist on every piece of gear and use a bench to load , will still have their muzzle skyward during loading.
Would the rule of "Muzzle below the berm" when reloading apply to a muzzle loader?

Note : I have loaded a muzzle loading rifle in the prone position , it can be done , but it is very awkward.
I do also realize that most folks do not shoot muzzle loaders and this is likely not a issue...just curious...
Andy

 

[xtratoy]

My understanding is that it happened during police training, and that it was not a club member that caused it.
However, if one round gets out and does something more than impact siding, the club could get shut down or sued out of existence.
So although I hate the rule, I do understand it.

Thats almost funny. I remember when I remember at Clark Rifles it always seemed to be on the "closed to members, open to law enforcement" days that incidents such as bullets off range happened.

 

[RVTECH]

Would the rule of "Muzzle below the berm" when reloading apply to a muzzle loader?

Its probably never been considered with MLs but if there I wouldn't ask anybody about it or might become a 'ruling'

 

[techiej]

Kind of a silly question...can you shoot muzzle loaders at the range in question?

When loading a muzzle loading rifle you generally place the rifle butt on your shoe or ground , then with the muzzle pointing up and away from your face , load powder , patch and ball....
Then prime or cap your rifle.
The only time my rifle is pointed down range or below "the berm" would be when priming or capping my rifle.
( when loading )

I load from my shooting bag without a lot of extras ....but even the guys who insist on every piece of gear and use a bench to load , will still have their muzzle skyward during loading.
Would the rule of "Muzzle below the berm" when reloading apply to a muzzle loader?

Note : I have loaded a muzzle loading rifle in the prone position , it can be done , but it is very awkward.
I do also realize that most folks do not shoot muzzle loaders and this is likely not a issue...just curious...
Andy

There is a separate black powder (rifle & pistol)/pistol caliber rifle/22lr rifle range where you can load muzzle loaders as you described.