To register with ATF or not?

[Ura-Ki]

 

[Nwcid]

I am looking for other points of view on this. A gun store owner thought it was stupid not to register. I have heard others say the opposite.

I don't want to be out of line, and please correct me if I am in asking what others are doing and or recommending. The more pov's the better on most issues. Maybe not so with this one?

it will depend on your goals and your views. The same as for others. There was a good list of pros and cons above and you have to choose which group you fit into.

Some people do not want to "be on a list" so won't do this. Some won't do it out of spite. Some won't do it to prove a point. Some won't do it for a lot of reasons.
Most will do it because "free stamps" and reduced wait time. Many people do not do SBR because it is $200/gun and you have to wait for 1-2 months for approval, https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/current-processing-times. I have seen people submit for lots of free stamps = thousands of dollars saved and if so inclined with the amnesty one you submit, you are legal. Some will register because they are scared of getting in trouble for not doing so.

You should never take other peoples recommendations. You should understand the rules along with the pros and cons to make your choice. To me it seems simple, answer yes and no to the following questions and you will have your answer.

Do you already have NFA items and/or do you care about being on a "list"?
Are you willing to follow all the NFA rules?
Do you want to "save" $200? You can always Form 1 later and pay the tax.
Are you only doing this because of the "free" stamp or have you been considering SBR already?
Do you want your gun to follow the rules for SBR vs Pistol? I do not plan on registering one of my braced guns because I want it to follow the rules for pistol, specifically loaded carry in a vehicle, it is my riding gun.

If it gets overruled are you ok with being on a "list" vs taking the risk of not being able to use a brace?

 

[coltrane1776]

If you enjoy letting other people tell you how to live your life and keep you purposefully disadvantaged to their benefit, sure go for it, just don't come crying to us when they tell you to turn it in or go to jail at a later date.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I always recomend people follow the laws, if your going to leave your brace on your AR pistol then make sure you follow the law.

Those who went ahead and took the free nfa registration to SBR their pistol won't have the government going after them for having a brace. Only a few down sides with a NFA SBR registration. It's going to be more difficult to sell as the next buyer will have to pay $200 for a tax and jump through hoops to buy it. I doubt the market will be very good when it can sometimes take a year for the BATFE to do a transfer.

Myself I don't own a brace, I really wouldn't want to go through the hassle to sell an SBR just because of owning a brace.

 

[JedB]

I always recomend people follow the laws, if your going to leave your brace on your AR pistol then make sure you follow the law.

Those who went ahead and took the free nfa registration to SBR their pistol won't have the government going after them for having a brace. Only a few down sides with a NFA SBR registration. It's going to be more difficult to sell as the next buyer will have to pay $200 for a tax and jump through hoops to buy it. I doubt the market will be very good when it can sometimes take a year for the BATFE to do a transfer.

Myself I don't own a brace, I really wouldn't want to go through the hassle to sell an SBR just because of owning a brace.

you can always de-register the firearm, and restore it back to a pistol or convert to a rifle.

 

[Member 34319]

It sounds like you are aware of the conundrum.

I'd say if you have 10 or more braced guns. Go for the free stamps. That's $2000 you won't have to spend.

I say that because they won't stop. We might win on a technicality, but they don't like small ARs or small guns in general. They don't like that we thumb our noses at them going around the laws they pass. They don't like us challenging their alphabet agencies that have zero power to make law. They will continue to go after braces. The time of braces will eventually come to an end in my opinion.

 

[Longwalkhome]

you can always de-register the firearm, and restore it back to a pistol or convert to a rifle.

Easier to just throw the brace away.

 

[Longwalkhome]

It sounds like you are aware of the conundrum.

I'd say if you have 10 or more braced guns. Go for the free stamps. That's $2000 you won't have to spend.

I say that because they won't stop. We might win on a technicality, but they don't like small ARs or small guns in general. They don't like that we thumb our noses at them going around the laws they pass. They don't like us challenging their alphabet agencies that have zero power to make law. They will continue to go after braces. The time of braces will eventually come to an end in my opinion.

I speculate on the future by what's been done in the past. The government banned the manufacturing of new full automatic firearms. Probably when the time is right they will ban the new manufacturing of certain semi automatic rifles. The idea being that the price on what guns are out there will become to expensive for Joe average to buy.

 

[DAG1995]

Why bother following unconstitutional laws? Civil disobedience is a peaceful, legitimate form of protest. When you comply with unconstitutional laws you normalize them in the conscience of society, making it harder for your children and grandchildren to exercise their rights, and pave the way to further restricting those rights. Remember, it was the NRA that championed the notion that the 2A was about hunting Bambi. Now we have a neutered generation of gun owners who will willingly vote away your right to an AR-15 and standard capacity magazines because those items are "weapons of war" that "no one needs for hunting". I understand not everyone is willing to take that stance given the potential for legal troubles. With that being said, we need to start taking a stand and fighting back. Compliance over the years has only resulted in the further degradation of our rights. It's death by a thousand cuts. Yesterday it was universal background checks, today it is banning magazines over 10 rounds, and tomorrow it will be banning all semi-automatic weapons, and 10 years from now it will be banning all firearms.

 

[Flopsweat]

It sounds like you are aware of the conundrum.

I'd say if you have 10 or more braced guns. Go for the free stamps. That's $2000 you won't have to spend.

I say that because they won't stop. We might win on a technicality, but they don't like small ARs or small guns in general. They don't like that we thumb our noses at them going around the laws they pass. They don't like us challenging their alphabet agencies that have zero power to make law. They will continue to go after braces. The time of braces will eventually come to an end in my opinion.

If it were about keeping us safe, they would never have pursued this in the first place. The SBR and SBS portion of the NFA were part of the intended pistol ban and serve no purpose on their own. When the pistol ban was removed from the law before the vote, they were left in. It serves no practical purpose to enforce them. Political purpose, sure, but it accomplishes nothing positive.

 

[Member 34319]

If it were about keeping us safe, they would never have pursued this in the first place. The SBR and SBS portion of the NFA were part of the intended pistol ban and serve no purpose on their own. When the pistol ban was removed from the law but were left in anyway. It serves no practical purpose to enforce them. Political purpose, sure, but it accomplishes nothing positive.

Was there a point in there something you wanted to make? Politicians don't care, any tool to enforce guns is in their interest.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Another small point to make. When you go to sell your used SBR the new buyer pays a $200 tax and what it cost to go through the process. He could buy new and register it for $200 so why would he buy used.

Just like a suppressor, you are going to lose money. It's not like they can't buy new SBR or suppressors so you have made your guns worth less on the market.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Another small point to make. When you go to sell your used SBR the new buyer pays a $200 tax and what it cost to go through the process. He could buy new and register it for $200 so why would he buy used.

Just like a suppressor, you are going to lose money. It's not like they can't buy new SBR or suppressors so you have made your guns worth less on the market.

Re selling, if you remove the brace it is no longer an sbr and can be sold as a pistol with no stamp required for the buyer. A courtesy to the new buyer would be to let ATF know so they can remove it from their register but that isn't required as I understand it. Only if you sold it configured as an sbr would the new buyer have to get a stamp.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Re selling, if you remove the brace it is no longer an sbr and can be sold as a pistol with no stamp required for the buyer. A courtesy to the new buyer would be to let ATF know so they can remove it from their register but that isn't required as I understand it.

When I sold my NFA registered sub guns the buyer had to go through the same process I did to buy them.

I can't imagine the BATFE just saying it's legal to sell your NFA registered SBR without doing the paperwork.

If it's true then why force the registration to begin with?

In most states you can sell a used gun without a background check, Oregon used to be like that.

If you sell your AR pistol without the brace and it's used in a crime then how will you prove you are innocent?

Yet if the BATFE approved the sale with all the paper work then it's on them if the gun is used in a crime.

 

[Flopsweat]

When I sold my NFA registered sub guns the buyer had to go through the same process I did to buy them.

I can't imagine the BATFE just saying it's legal to sell your NFA registered SBR without doing the paperwork.

If it's true then why force the registration to begin with?

In most states you can sell a used gun without a background check, Oregon used to be like that.

If you sell your AR pistol without the brace and it's used in a crime then how will you prove you are innocent?

Yet if the BATFE approved the sale with all the paper work then it's on them if the gun is used in a crime.

You can convert an SBR to a regular rifle or pistol any time you want. You don't need to notify them. The idea was to convert it and then sell it. It's perfectly legal, and often a very practical solution.

 

[Longwalkhome]

You can convert an SBR to a regular rifle or pistol any time you want. You don't need to notify them. The idea was to convert it and then sell it. It's perfectly legal, and often a very practical solution.

OK but this is the same BATFE that said the braces were legal to buy and millions bought them only to have the BATFE change its mind. The same BATFE that said bump stocks were not machineguns and then changed their mind.

Trust them?

 

[Flopsweat]

OK but this is the same BATFE that said the braces were legal to buy and millions bought them only to have the BATFE change its mind. The same BATFE that said bump stocks were not machineguns and then changed their mind.

Trust them?

Of course not, but by that logic you should never transfer any gun. Currently, a practical solution is to remove the brace or stock and sell the gun. I would recommend that you also notify the ATF that the firearm is no longer an SBR.

Edit: You should notify them if you have a stamp or have applied for one. If it's an existing braced pistol, I don't see the need.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

its a special kind of math , you wouldnt understand

common core FTW

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Of course not, but by that logic you should never transfer any gun. Currently, a practical solution is to remove the brace or stock and sell the gun. I would recommend that you also notify the ATF that the firearm is no longer an SBR.

Edit: You should notify them if you have a stamp or have applied for one. If it's an existing braced pistol, I don't see the need.

+1 . A note on the notifying atf thing, the example i heard form ATF was you can (if you want to) notify them so that if the new owner applies for an SBR in the future then having the correct info in their database may prevent delays in processing for the new sbr stamp (ie no conflicting info for that serial #).

 

[Flopsweat]

+1 . A note on the notifying atf thing, the example i heard form ATF was you can (if you want to) notify them so that if the new owner applies for an SBR in the future then having the correct info in their database may prevent delays in processing for the new sbr stamp (ie no conflicting info for that serial #).

Plus if they happen upon it in the field, there is less confusion as what it is and who owns it.