To register with ATF or not?

[Longwalkhome]

Of course not, but by that logic you should never transfer any gun. Currently, a practical solution is to remove the brace or stock and sell the gun. I would recommend that you also notify the ATF that the firearm is no longer an SBR.

I have bought NFA items in the past and never had a visit from the BATFE to check on the status of the items. If they contact me then I would have to prove ownership of said items because no paperwork has been filed in transfer.

It's my opinion that once you file with the BATFE under NFA regulations that the BATFE has sole power over what the regulations are today and may change tommorrow. Because they are before congress and having to answer for their rule changes its obvious not even our crooked congressman trust the BATFE.

Anyway men will do as they want but just pointing out that you can't trust what you are being told by the BATFE so get in in writing on BATFE letterhead stationary for the future court case. The manufacturer who made millions of braces had the BATFE letter saying what he produced was perfectly legal yet now his business is being destroyed. He has letters from the BATFE saying he was within the law to make and sell braces.

Anyway you guys do what you want, I am done here.

Have a great day.

 

[123vin]

You really should check out the links to other threads and the recommended search terms. To clarify, this site has a search feature in the upper right corner. It works very well. Check out the Advanced Search options too. There is a ton of information exactly germane to your question in several threads here. It's considered bad form to ask common questions before you've done a proper search, but fortunately for you, people are being extra nice and answering again anyway.

Thank you for that tip. I will check it out. I suck at most websites.

 

[123vin]

Again long discussion. You are asking the right questions. They have all been answered in the other threads. Off the top of my head:

Potential pros:
1. Can add stock and/or vertical grip once approved
2. Can continue to use existing braces upon application. Ie you don't have to worry about prosecution for having a brace
3. Free vs in future may be $200

Potential cons:
1. You are signing up on a registry. In future regimes, it's possible that registration may lead to confiscation, or it may not.
2. It's a hassle
3. If there is an injunction or thrown out you could then use braces without having had to register it
4. It may never be enforced against you anyway, or it may be who knows, depends on officer and other factors such as department directives. Potential penalties are severe of course.
5. Some minor paperwork issues such as yearly notification if taking out of state or one time notification if you move out of state.

Re timing you can wait to see if there is an injunction or register them now. If you know you want benefits of stock and vertical grip (or other benefits) and are ok with the cons then no need to wait to see if there is an injunction. If the cons outweigh the pros you can wait to see if there is an injunction. Just be aware of the potential for atf computer overload if you wait until the very end.

Thank you for that recap.

A con that just occurred: if if I register them as SBR then if I wanted to sell them, it would be a major hassle to sell them as SBR's. I have an AK pistol with brace that I am thinking of selling. I do not want to SBR that any time soon.

 

[JedB]

Easier to just throw the brace away.

If you want to go that route, that's fine.
IMO, and to err on the side of not having to have an explanation, I'd remove it from the ATF's roster.

If I no longer want a short-barreled rifle (SBR) and I remove the “brace,” do I need to contact the NFA to un-register my SBR with an attached “stabilizing brace”? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

It is not a requirement to remove your SBR from the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record (NFRTR); however, ATF highly recommends you notify the Government Services Branch (GSB) of the National Firearms Act Division to remove the firearm from the NFRTR registry. All NFRTR updates...

www.atf.gov

 

[Nwcid]

Thank you for that recap.

A con that just occurred: if if I register them as SBR then if I wanted to sell them, it would be a major hassle to sell them as SBR's. I have an AK pistol with brace that I am thinking of selling. I do not want to SBR that any time soon.

If you register it as an SBR and want to sell it, it is not a major hassle, but it does take an extra step or two.

1. They buy it as an SBR and do a Form 4 Transfer. This costs $200 and has ~ 1 year wait time.
2. You make it into a non-NFA configuration. In your case remove the stock making it a pistol, send an update to ATF that it is no longer an NFA item and sell it as a pistol. If the buyer wants to make it an SBR, they can fill out a Form 1 an make it an SBR again.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If you register it as an SBR and want to sell it, it is not a major hassle, but it does take an extra step or two.

1. They buy it as an SBR and do a Form 4 Transfer. This costs $200 and has ~ 1 year wait time.
2. You make it into a non-NFA configuration. In your case remove the stock making it a pistol, send an update to ATF that it is no longer an NFA item and sell it as a pistol. If the buyer wants to make it an SBR, they can fill out a Form 1 an make it an SBR again.

Or remove the upper and give it a 16+" upper then sell as a rifle. Of course update to ATF that it is no longer SBR.

 

[TTSX]

Oh look, another brace amnesty thread. Throw it in with the others, they're a dime a dozen.

 

[123vin]

Oh look, another brace amnesty thread. Throw it in with the others, they're a dime a dozen.

Thank you for noticing! Did you have any input beyond the observation?

 

[clanhanson]

I am looking for other points of view on this. A gun store owner thought it was stupid not to register. I have heard others say the opposite.

I don't want to be out of line, and please correct me if I am in asking what others are doing and or recommending. The more pov's the better on most issues. Maybe not so with this one?

I'm not one to risk a decade in prison and a large fine just so I can have a stock or VFG on my toys. It's a hobby, don't let it get you in trouble. Form 1s are easy and $200 is nothing nowadays.

 

[spookshack]

Thank you for noticing! Did you have any input beyond the observation?

I'm sure @TTSX has plenty of input he could drop on you, but he's not going to do your homework for you.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I still have to laugh that people trust the BATFE after they told the maker and the buyers that braces were legal then flip flops. What's the next flip flop?

 

[CamoDeafie]

I still have to laugh that people trust the BATFE after they told the maker and the buyers that braces were legal then flip flops. What's the next flip flop?

By saying all semiautomatic rifles are "machine guns"?

 

[Flopsweat]

I still have to laugh that people trust the BATFE after they told the maker and the buyers that braces were legal then flip flops. What's the next flip flop?

I think that was covered in another thread, but hear ya go.

 

[Rkangel]

It is your choice. As a general rule, I usually do not listen to legal advice from gun store owners or gun show patrons. Most of it is poor at best. Probably the same for random strangers on the internet. Not many of us are lawyers. Even fewer should be giving legal advice on an open forum.

Just remember that with everything they are trying at the state and federal levels, everyone will eventually be a criminal, or be registered for future criminalization. SBR registration doesn't protect any of your rights. It just registers you and your firearms with agencies that are increasingly being politically weaponized against citizens. You have to decide if there is any upside to that.

 

[drstrangelove]

If you are in WA, when 1240 passes you will be denied by the ATF...
buy the 16" barrel and enjoy the accuracy and velocity boost. And a normal stock.

 

[123vin]

I'm sure @TTSX has plenty of input he could drop on you, but he's not going to do your homework for you.

thank you for your insight about @TTSX. however, perhaps you missed the point. I happily take care of my home and all the work that is required. maybe i missed the point of a forum. I kind of thought it was a place where people shared what they know. most on this thread seem to understand that too.

while i appreciate your participation, i am not sure that it added anything to the thread. thanks again.

 

[123vin]

it will depend on your goals and your views. The same as for others. There was a good list of pros and cons above and you have to choose which group you fit into.

Some people do not want to "be on a list" so won't do this. Some won't do it out of spite. Some won't do it to prove a point. Some won't do it for a lot of reasons.
Most will do it because "free stamps" and reduced wait time. Many people do not do SBR because it is $200/gun and you have to wait for 1-2 months for approval, https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/current-processing-times. I have seen people submit for lots of free stamps = thousands of dollars saved and if so inclined with the amnesty one you submit, you are legal. Some will register because they are scared of getting in trouble for not doing so.

You should never take other peoples recommendations. You should understand the rules along with the pros and cons to make your choice. To me it seems simple, answer yes and no to the following questions and you will have your answer.

Do you already have NFA items and/or do you care about being on a "list"?
Are you willing to follow all the NFA rules?
Do you want to "save" $200? You can always Form 1 later and pay the tax.
Are you only doing this because of the "free" stamp or have you been considering SBR already?
Do you want your gun to follow the rules for SBR vs Pistol? I do not plan on registering one of my braced guns because I want it to follow the rules for pistol, specifically loaded carry in a vehicle, it is my riding gun.

If it gets overruled are you ok with being on a "list" vs taking the risk of not being able to use a brace?

Thank you for boiling things down. I do not have answers to those questions yet. Working on it.

 

[123vin]

If you enjoy letting other people tell you how to live your life and keep you purposefully disadvantaged to their benefit, sure go for it, just don't come crying to us when they tell you to turn it in or go to jail at a later date.

We all, on some level let others tell us how to live. That is fundamental to community whether we enjoy it or not.

I am looking for opinions on what folks are thinking, not looking to be told what to do.

 

[123vin]

It sounds like you are aware of the conundrum.

I'd say if you have 10 or more braced guns. Go for the free stamps. That's $2000 you won't have to spend.

I say that because they won't stop. We might win on a technicality, but they don't like small ARs or small guns in general. They don't like that we thumb our noses at them going around the laws they pass. They don't like us challenging their alphabet agencies that have zero power to make law. They will continue to go after braces. The time of braces will eventually come to an end in my opinion.

One upside that I have thought, if all my pistols are actually sbr's then I can ditch the braces and put stocks on them.

 

[123vin]

Why bother following unconstitutional laws? Civil disobedience is a peaceful, legitimate form of protest. When you comply with unconstitutional laws you normalize them in the conscience of society, making it harder for your children and grandchildren to exercise their rights, and pave the way to further restricting those rights. Remember, it was the NRA that championed the notion that the 2A was about hunting Bambi. Now we have a neutered generation of gun owners who will willingly vote away your right to an AR-15 and standard capacity magazines because those items are "weapons of war" that "no one needs for hunting". I understand not everyone is willing to take that stance given the potential for legal troubles. With that being said, we need to start taking a stand and fighting back. Compliance over the years has only resulted in the further degradation of our rights. It's death by a thousand cuts. Yesterday it was universal background checks, today it is banning magazines over 10 rounds, and tomorrow it will be banning all semi-automatic weapons, and 10 years from now it will be banning all firearms.

I see your logic. Thank you.