Time to buy a .45 - Thoughts?

[PlayboyPenguin]

My opinion ..... I do not own firearms from companies that decide to locate their companies in places that make it difficult to own firearms. Kimber is a good example. Owning a handgun in New York City is next to impossible. Yet they let Kimber manufacture guns there. Another good example is Para Ordinance. Ever try owning a handgun in Toronto?

I actually feel the opposite. I figure that if a gun manufacturer can make it to where the local economy starts to count on them they might eventually be able to make the state more gun friendly.

 

[MarkSBG]

Wichaka, do you care to elaborate on this? The opinion of one that's been into the guts of a gun and has the knowledge to know good from bad could be invaluable when making a decision to buy.

Also, do you have an opinion on the Dan Wesson 1911s?

+1
*waits patiently*

 

[PhysicsGuy]

Wichaka, do you care to elaborate on this? The opinion of one that's been into the guts of a gun and has the knowledge to know good from bad could be invaluable when making a decision to buy.

Also, do you have an opinion on the Dan Wesson 1911s?

After having talked to Steve about 1911s for a while, I believe that his main problem with Kimber is the failures with their MIM parts, they don't know make these parts, but whoever their supplier is, has very low quality control at times. Also Kimber had huge problems with their guns that had external extractors, and most people don't like the series II firing pin block.

But Steve probably has more to add to this.

 

[NoAim]

My past experiences:

- 1911 (STI Spartan, now a STI Sentry) = Great trigger, fairly mild recoil, fun to shoot. Tend to be heavy.

- Para HiCap 1911 (double stack) = All the fun of a 1911, but with more rounds available. Heavy and definitely a big grip.

- Sig P220 = Nice gun, but expensive with a really heavy/long DA trigger. I liked the SAO variant. 8-rd. max. Sold it.

- HK USP-T = Smaller grip than most people think. Really soft recoil, really well made. Very accurate. Mags and gun are expensive.

- Glock 21 = Freaking huge with that ugly, mushy Glock trigger. Tried hard to like it, sold it. Mags and gun are fairly low cost though.

- 5" XD45 = replacement for the Glock. Better grip angle, much slimmer grip, good aftermarket support. Could use a heavier recoil spring to tone the recoil down a bit. Trigger sucks almost as much as a Glock. Mags are about the same cost as Glock.

If you can't see from above...I like the bigger .45 guns. Of that list, all are hi-cap, except for the Sig P220 and the 1911. When it all comes down to it, my favorite .45 to shoot is a 1911. Nice trigger, comfy grip, accurate, and being heavy soaks up the recoil more than the polymer guns.

The STI Spartan can be had for ~$600 pretty easy, comes with some nice extras. Mine was utterly reliable, and had a nice trigger on it. If you wanted to do IPSC or something, go for single-stack.

If you're looking for higher capacity 12-14, I currently use the XD45. Again, about $550 for the gun. I'd like to get a trigger job for it or keep hoping for the XDm to come out in a .45. I haven't used the Para hi-cap too much yet to make a good judgement, and they tend to be more expensive. I got mine for a great price, but realistically, they sell for ~$900 or more.

 

[wichaka]

When Kimber started their 1911 line, they had a product that was second to none. Then they had problems in a few areas, their MIM parts being one of them. Springfield uses MIM as well, but theirs does not have breakage that Kimber has had.

The other problems they are/have had;

Tight chambers;
Kimber has been plagued with the FTF and/or failure to go into battery problems for a long time. One thing a gunsmith or armorer can do to help this problem (among a few of other fixes that are many times necessary) is to check the headspace and ream the chamber to SAAMI spec.

Slide stops wandering causing false lock backs,
Improper feed ramp geometry,
Extractors not holding tension,
Grip screw bushings not properly staked,
Plunger tubes not properly staked,
Mag catch traps magazines,
Kimpro finish on the feed ramp will became sticky with extended firing.

Quote from Hilton Yam;
The Series II Kimbers, with the Swartz style firing pin safety, are limited in their maximum potential due to the inherent problems with the design of the safety.
The platforms utilizing the Swartz safety are a less than ideal choice across the board due to the inherent reliability problems of the design.
The Swartz safety is extremely sensitive to the fit of the grip safety to the frame and the timing of the grip safety's trigger blocking arm.
Tolerance issues can also lead to a Swartz safety that will time properly when the grip safety is depressed a certain way, and time differently when depressed a different way.
This will typically be a product of loose fit of the grip safety to the frame tangs and/or loose fit of the thumb safety shaft through the grip safety. It is possible to have the grip safety timed such that the trigger will be able to release the sear well before the firing pin safety plunger has been moved far enough to clear the firing pin.
Problems with improper timing of the Swartz safeties can lead to a situation where you get a "click" when you wanted a "bang." "

I would choose a 1911 without one. It is possible to have a drop safe 1911 without the firing pin safety, and given the potential reliability problems with a poorly executed system, the perceived risk of drop safety is outweighed by the real risk of a failure to fire.

I just report the facts as I personally have knowledge of, as well as information from others that I trust in the industry.

I also want to make one thing clear, if someone shows up to any of my shooting classes with a Kimber, Glock etc., you'll never hear a word from me about it...unless an opinion is asked for. The class is for shooting, and lets get to it.

 

[Oro]

Yep. Lightly used would be preferred. Thanks, guys.

There's a lovely looking Series '70 reproduction for sale in Seattle right now if driving up I-5 is not out of the question for you. PM (or better yet email) me if you want a link to the ad (not mine, I just happen to have been contemplating it myself). It is at a good price and near new. Please buy it before I do; I need yet another Series '70 like I need swine flu.

Another model I would recommend you look at that is new and not well known yet is the Colt Combat Elite. It's in your price range, and a very nice looking package. It is part of the Colt "Enhanced" (aka "XSE") line.

 

[Armsdealer]

I actually feel the opposite. I figure that if a gun manufacturer can make it to where the local economy starts to count on them they might eventually be able to make the state more gun friendly.

Perhaps. It's more likely the local government is just content collecting the local property, payrole, income, and the rest of the taxes and fees required to run a business.

 

[fromotoc]

I would go with a STI Spartan (1911). Has alot of bells and whistles, and the frame to slide fit is great. Price is around $650 for a new one, maybe less for a used one, and they tend to hold their resale value pretty good. They contract this pistol out to Rock Island, but they go through a long testing/fitting procedure by STI before they go on the shelves, and they have gotten great reviews. It is probably the best bang for the buck in a loaded 1911.

 

[KENOC]

Dan Wesson CCO....or Bobtail. Dan Wesson makes Beautiful 1911's, reliable, priced fairly. Nothing to upgrade....may cost you $100 or $250 more than the grand you want to spend. But............. you will not regret it in the long run.

 

[KENOC]

Oh and for around $800, you should consider a Detonics Combat Master or 9-11-01 if you can find one. They show up online from time to time. The Seattle guns are almost 30 years old but if you can find a nice one they are hard to beat. The newer Detonics USA guns from Georgia (built a couple years ago) are better than most other manufacturers 1911's for half the cost...zero MIM parts, excellant fit and finish, and they will feed most anything.

 

[torpedoman]

resale colt wins, if you want a reliable accurate gun with a real good trigger out of the bow try a rock island 1911, For the guys who are going to jump in with trash talk dont unless you own one, mine feeds and fires anything you can fit in the mag including hornady hollow points and semi wadcutter reloads. and i'll match the accuracy of any of the pistols mentioned with it, yep it is an inexpensive gun but it WORKS.

 

[Descendant]

I am watching with interest because I'm considering:

1. STI Spartan 1911 5"

2. Springfield Armory Mil Spec 1911 5"

They seem to be good bang for the buck.

 

[mcm56]

I have Kimber .45 Stainless Target II Laser Grips. $850.00

 

[cameronhu]

I personally would just find a nice Colt Series 70 1911.

Although I do have a Gold Cup trophy on lay-a-way and I am anxious to see how it shoots when I pick it up.

PS: If i ever get the Gold Cup off lay-a-way and you want to shoot it and some other .45acp options all you hve to do is meet me at the English Pit one day...and bring some ammo.

Thanks, Penguin. Much appreciated. You'll have to let me know what you think of your Gold Cup Trophy. That Stainless HK you picked up wasn't a .45 was it? -- I'll likely take you up on your kind offer sometime in the near future as well. I'm juggling two kids right now, so it's a rare treat for me to get 4 or 5 hours off to shoot. I have a small range set up at my parents place now that I try and shoot at a couple times a week. Those 2 hour windows are much easier to come by

Thanks again.

 

[cameronhu]

GO visit Springer Precision in Bend
http://www.springerprecision.com/
He's a great gunsmith and a fantastic resource for someone in your "predicament".
Personally, I'd suggest a 4" Service Model XD...there are plenty of farkles that you can add and things you can modify but it's a great shooter out of the box. I love my Govt Issue 1911 but my XD is mush easier for me to shoot accurately and consistently.
Just my $.02-worth everything you've paid for it!
Cheers,
Jorge

I have an XDM that I'm about to pack off to Springer for some trigger work. I know I'll end up spending more money on that gun than I'll ever get out of it, as I plan on swapping out sights at least twice. I don't mind doing that on some guns, but in the case of the .45, I don't want to have to customize to much. Looking for a really nice Vanilla gun, if you know what I mean.

 

[JAFO]

HK USP triggers get better the more you shoot them. Sig triggers are pretty good out of the box. Both of these hold excellent resale values.

 

[cameronhu]

Thanks everyone, for the suggestions so far. I really appreciate this forum and the NWF.com members. Hats off to you all.

So in the 1911 camp, I'm thinking either Colt, Dan Wesson or possible Sig.

Colt because, of the resale value. Dan Wesson, because they seem very well constructed. And Sig, because with the possible exception of the Mosquito, I've never been unimpressed by the overall quality.

Outside the 1911s, I'm checking out the HKs (used to have a P9S in the 80s I thought a lot of), the Sig 220 and possibly a full size Sig 250.

Anyone have any horror stories with any of these, or conversely, thought one was the dog's bollocks?

 

[NK777]

Get a quality 1911 and you won't go wrong.

Avoid the armscor stuff... They are cheap and they are reliable but they again are made of cheap cast stuff.

Brands I'd recomend New Taurus PT1911, Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, Fussion Arms, etc.

I would also avoid older Taurus 1911's and Newer Kimbers not because they are made out of crap material but rather because they tend to have issues. I have a newer Taurus and it's been flawless in everyway and accurate. It was a whole lot of gun for the money.

 

[PDXGS]

Outside the 1911s, I'm checking out the HKs (used to have a P9S in the 80s I thought a lot of), the Sig 220 and possibly a full size Sig 250.

Anyone have any horror stories with any of these, or conversely, thought one was the dog's bollocks?

Nothing bad to say about any of them except that at this point, between HKs and SiGs it's probably more about the ergonomics than the build. Go fondle them all and find out which one your hands and eyes like. I really wanted an HK when my .45 search began...alas, the USP was too big for my mits. I tried a friend's XD for fit and it was spot on. So, I bought one and I've been pleasantly surprised....once I installed a new Trigger Bar from Springer and a Striker Safety Lever from Powder River Precision it was gold.
Any of the above guns would be a hoot to own.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

My H&K USPc is the .40S&W version but you are welcome to try it out. It will just be a tiny bit snappier than the .45acp version.