Thread Crapping on NWFA: why it's a problem and how to solve it

[308]

That is exactly what the post is attempting to do, is it not? Unless I've missed something, the purpose of a classified ad is to conduct business, be it buy, sell, or trade. What do you think the purpose of a classified ad is, if not for business? Please enlighten.

I think what is being communicated is that some members use the Classified area FREE OF CHARGE to conduct their business without EVER making an attempt to interact with other members here on a social level.
Like showing up at my house for the BBQ, not saying anything, using the resources and then leaving without even saying thank you.

It's the same way on other forums and shouldn't be hard to understand.
Bottom line is, if the staff is cool with it, and the ones paying the bills around here are cool with it, then there is not much to say about it.

 

[Norm0931]

That is exactly what the post is attempting to do, is it not? Unless I've missed something, the purpose of a classified ad is to conduct business, be it buy, sell, or trade. What do you think the purpose of a classified ad is, if not for business? Please enlighten.

For members within the community to have a common place to conduct friendly transactions. It is not a place to replace a business in an effort to circumvent federal and state laws. You are not a member of the community, you created an account purely to sell items in an attempt to generate revenue as a business. By all rights we should be informing the IRS and ATF about your activities for a proper investigation to see if you are violating firearms dealer laws by disguising them as private transactions.

 

[Exnihilo]

I think if people are thread crappin on your sale adds I think it might be your threads that need help....Go rip people off on a website you cannot comment on...And I for one am for criticism(positive or negative)so Id like to see rule go away too....

This is a great reply and, I think, illustrates perfectly the problem. First, my classified ads don't get crapped on, but I see it on a lot of other ads. Second, your statement, "Go rip people off on a website" demonstrates a common attitude that among thread crappers, which is:

"if your sale price/trade value does not meet my personal definition of fair, you are a rip-off."

Why do you or any other individual get to decide what is "fair" in the market place? Are we not adults capable of making our own purchase decisions? Are you advocating the need for a central committee to determine the "fair" value of a transaction? Should "fair" value be determined only by mob rule? That, my friend, is the antithesis of a free market economic system.

In a free market economic system, supply and demand always seek equilibrium. When supply is low and demand increases significantly, prices must increase in order for the market to reach equilibrium. That is the way the market works. You may not like it, but that doesn't change the mechanics of the market. You can protest by refusing to engage in transactions you feel are "rip-offs", and that is your choice. The key concept here is "personal choice", which is the cornerstone of individual freedom in our country.

 

[308]

For members within the community to have a common place to conduct friendly transactions. It is not a place to replace a business in an effort to circumvent federal and state laws. You are not a member of the community, you created an account purely to sell items in an attempt to generate revenue as a business. By all rights we should be informing the IRS and ATF about your activities for a proper investigation to see if you are violating firearms dealer laws by disguising them as private transactions.

It's a slippery slope when one enthusiast suggests informing on another.
Reminds me of the so-called drought we had here in Oregon many years ago. We were only allowed to water our lawns on odd days.
My lovely Christian neighbors (not being sarcastic...they are great friends) told another neighbor they were going to turn me in for watering on an even day...my mistake.
Point being, it's odd how little it takes for someone to threaten turning a friend/acquaintance/fellow enthusiast into those who do not have our best interest at heart.
Just sayin...

 

[Norm0931]

It's a slippery slope when one enthusiast suggests informing on another.
Reminds me of the so-called drought we had here in Oregon many years ago. We were only allowed to water our lawns on odd days.
My lovely Christian neighbors (not being sarcastic...they are great friends) told another neighbor they were going to turn me in for watering on an even day...my mistake.
Point being, it's odd how little it takes for someone to threaten turning a friend/acquaintance/fellow enthusiast into those who do not have our best interest at heart.
Just sayin...

One, I'm not threatening anything. I'm pointing out a fact. Two, you did not explicitly move to your neighborhood in order to water your lawn. Three, you were not watering your lawn in order to circumvent laws in order to make a profit. Four, his entire purpose for being on this forum had been to sell firearms. That sort of activity is EXACTLY what antis are complaining about. I don't want the site and Joe prosecuted for someone who is not a member of the community and has possibly, if not probably, been using the classifieds section to conduct possible illegal business.

 

[Exnihilo]

One, I'm not threatening anything. I'm pointing out a fact. Two, you did not explicitly move to your neighborhood in order to water your lawn. Three, you were not watering your lawn in order to circumvent laws in order to make a profit. Four, his entire purpose for being on this forum had been to sell firearms. That sort of activity is EXACTLY what antis are complaining about. I don't want the site and Joe prosecuted for someone who is not a member of the community and has possibly, if not probably, been using the classifieds section to conduct possible illegal business.

Threatening is exactly what you are doing. It is a classic intimidation tactic of the left. Rather than engage on the issue they attack the messenger. You know nothing about me and yet make claims on a public forum that are without foundation and libelous. Making a profit? Please show me the accounting records that demonstrate I am making a profit.

It is ironic that by making such irresponsible claims you are doing exactly what you supposedly want to prevent - giving the anti-second amendment crowd the data points they will use to make the case for banning all private transactions and ultimately, confiscation of all firearms.

Well done, Sir.

 

[Norm0931]

Irresponsible? You have only used the forum to conduct firearms transactions. And we have been engaging the issue. You are not a member of this community. You provide nothing. Your sole purpose has been firearms transactions. I will acknowledge I don't know the line the atf sets between private sellers and the need of an ffl but, you are using the forum ONLY for the purpose of business.

 

[Exnihilo]

I think what is being communicated is that some members use the Classified area FREE OF CHARGE to conduct their business without EVER making an attempt to interact with other members here on a social level.
Like showing up at my house for the BBQ, not saying anything, using the resources and then leaving without even saying thank you.

It's the same way on other forums and shouldn't be hard to understand.
Bottom line is, if the staff is cool with it, and the ones paying the bills around here are cool with it, then there is not much to say about it.

I appreciate what you are saying about the community side. When I joined the forum in 2008 I did engage more with other members of the community and even went to an event. Unfortunately, with my family and work commitments it was hard to add even more social activities. Beyond that, I am just not much of a chat and forum posting type of person. But I hear what you are saying.

 

[Don H]

However if , I say "if" you or others are over selling to the point it appears it is a business?
Well then, we cross the line from 2nd amendment and private sales rights to federal arm sales violations.

Who decides, you? The antis? If someone has a lot to sale, then more power to them.

 

[chase]

Exnihilo,
C'est la vie.
Now move on...
-chase

 

[Mark W.]

That is exactly what the post is attempting to do, is it not? Unless I've missed something, the purpose of a classified ad is to conduct business, be it buy, sell, or trade. What do you think the purpose of a classified ad is, if not for business? Please enlighten.

Yes but that is not the purpose of the Forum. Which you appear to only use as one would the Nickle ads or a Classifed section of the loacal newspaper.

 

[TapRackNGo]

Reading this thread reminds me of this movie clip. Out numbered, but not out gunned.. Don't go anywhere Exnihilo, you are welcome here.

 

[accessbob]

...If someone has a lot to sale,...

Sell, a lot to SELL.


And it is something to be wary of.

 

[newtoynwfa]

Threatening is exactly what you are doing. It is a classic intimidation tactic of the left. Rather than engage on the issue they attack the messenger. You know nothing about me and yet make claims on a public forum that are without foundation and libelous. Making a profit? Please show me the accounting records that demonstrate I am making a profit.

It is ironic that by making such irresponsible claims you are doing exactly what you supposedly want to prevent - giving the anti-second amendment crowd the data points they will use to make the case for banning all private transactions and ultimately, confiscation of all firearms.

Well done, Sir.

If you spend all this time buying/selling here and the other gun boards and not for profit, you are either bored, have too much time on your hands, have a bubblegumty marriage, or just plain not smart. Did I just crap on a thread-crapping thread?

 

[Don H]

HA! Good catch. I guess I should have defined 'a lot.' or is it 'alot'

 

[Adam12]

I think when all you do is sell here, people get the impression you are only here to sell. And if your prices are high, based on common sense, people should enlighten others. Some people come here thinking they will get guidance in buying items. When they get ripped off by someone out to make a buck, they get a bad taste in their mouth about the site.

I'm all for crapping with guidance in mind

 

[cityrice]

my horse does all the crapping.

 

[Nwcid]

Who decides, you? The antis? If someone has a lot to sale, then more power to them.

The ATF does and there are rules about exactly what is and what is not a dealer that needs an FFL. It has nothing to do with the # of guns sold. It has to do with if you are "engaged in the business of buying and selling firearms" or if you are buying and selling to enhance your personal collection.

 

[hoody]

Economists would tell us that markets are most efficient when all parties have perfect information. This isn't a poker game or a chess match: it is healthy if users comment on offers made in public. Information for all. Crowd-sourced self-policing.

 

[Swedish K]

The ATF does and there are rules about exactly what is and what is not a dealer that needs an FFL. It has nothing to do with the # of guns sold. It has to do with if you are "engaged in the business of buying and selling firearms" or if you are buying and selling to enhance your personal collection.

True - there is no "magic number" that determines if you need an FFL - it is left up to the opinion of the ATF representative. I have known people who sold dozens of guns that never had an issue and I have known others who were told to get an FFL or cease and desist in purchase/sale of firearms. If you are lucky you get an ATF agent who is pro gun and gives you fair warning. If you are unlucky you get an agent like the one who tried to seize a batch of flashlight bodies from a machine shop that did some FFL work and also had contracts with a large flashlight company.