The next step for a WA AWB? Citizen initiative

[archeofuturist]

This is the next step the gun grabbers are talking about.

This has the potential for being every bit a cluster f@#k in the midterm election if it gets support as would an abortion ban.

Let's Put an Assault-Weapons Ban on the Ballot | Slog

Btw: know thy enemy

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[rumblebee1967]

Its not about gun control its about people control. If we get a measure on the ballot to ban free speech as defined by the first amendment then that would also be OK with those clowns I suppose. If gun restrictions really work then please explain Chicago and Detroit.

 

[jimwest]

Wow. Be warned, that page is a showcase for some of the most ignorant statements I've seen from the anti-gun crowd. There must be something in the granola up here. Click at your own risk.

 

[Misterbill]

Let them. It will fail, horribly.

This is not 1994. The whole landscape has changed drastically and ALL of the numbers are on our side. What's more, I find that nearly every time I talk to someone who favors an AWB, they think it's about machine guns. As soon as they find out it's about semi-autos, they lose interest in it.

Just look at the numbers of CPLs which have been issued over the last 5 years. They have skyrocketed and the number gets larger every month.

But considering this is Dan Savage, I will respond to him with his own logic: Since when do we put up basic rights to a popular vote? Or is a minority group only important based on who they like to have sex with?

 

[kumabear17]

The Constitution isn't a popularity contest and that appears to be what the Liberals are trying to make it with all their bs polls. Of course the media doesn't help because they are usually the ones making up the numbers. Wasn't it NBC on Wednesday night that claimed 80% of all the guns used by criminals came from private sales. If you call a private sale buying a gun from the guy who stole it first or smuggled in, maybe that could make up a number like this. Otherwise it all smoke and mirrors that the "sheeple" just suck up.

 

[Kable]

It never ends uhg but I doubt it will pass I'd guess 1/4 th to 1/3 rd of households here have a firearm and most gun owners wouldn't vote for it plus 1 in 12 people here have a CPL and that number is climbing if they do try and get it on the ballot though I will do everything I can to prevent them from getting enough signatures if someone is outside a store trying to get signatures I'll hang out to educate potential signers if we all are organized enough and do that we could stop them from getting enough signatures

 

[Misterbill]

It never ends uhg but I doubt it will pass I'd guess 1/4 th to 1/3 rd of households here have a firearm and most gun owners wouldn't vote for it plus 1 in 12 people here have a CPL and that number is climbing if they do try and get it on the ballot though I will do everything I can to prevent them from getting enough signatures if someone is outside a store trying to get signatures I'll hang out to educate potential signers if we all are organized enough and do that we could stop them from getting enough signatures

threshold for getting enough signatures is pretty low in Washington, so I'm sure they can manage to get it on the ballot if they really want to.

That's fine by me. I don't think I'm being at all over-confident in thinking that they would be absolutely crushed in an election, especially an off-year one. As importantly, it would allow us to get so much good data out there to people who simply don't know anything about guns that it would crush the entire gun-control agenda for a long time to come.

Don't get me wrong, all things considered, I'd just as soon it never came to a vote. But the facts and the demographics on this are so massively on our side it would be our election to lose. It's all well to donate to NRA, but can you imagine how much money we could raise for an ad campaign to defeat a ballot measure like this? Every gun owner I know would give til it hurt.

One of the reasons NRA and others can't marshal that kind of support is that they are fighting lots of battles in lots of places. I'm happy to give them SOME money, but the kind of cash I'm willing to give to fight a battle in Poducah KY is a lot less than I'd pony up for a fight like this in my own state.

A straight up ballot measure like this is an easy sell for fund-raising for a specific, local issue that would affect every gun owner in the state.

 

[Kable]

threshold for getting enough signatures is pretty low in Washington, so I'm sure they can manage to get it on the ballot if they really want to.

That's fine by me. I don't think I'm being at all over-confident in thinking that they would be absolutely crushed in an election, especially an off-year one. As importantly, it would allow us to get so much good data out there to people who simply don't know anything about guns that it would crush the entire gun-control agenda for a long time to come.

Don't get me wrong, all things considered, I'd just as soon it never came to a vote. But the facts and the demographics on this are so massively on our side it would be our election to lose. It's all well to donate to NRA, but can you imagine how much money we could raise for an ad campaign to defeat a ballot measure like this? Every gun owner I know would give til it hurt.

One of the reasons NRA and others can't marshal that kind of support is that they are fighting lots of battles in lots of places. I'm happy to give them SOME money, but the kind of cash I'm willing to give to fight a battle in Poducah KY is a lot less than I'd pony up for a fight like this in my own state.

A straight up ballot measure like this is an easy sell for fund-raising for a specific, local issue that would affect every gun owner in the state.

You've got a point maybe it would be better for it to be a ballot measure and then have it fail so badly could send a big lasting message

 

[HahnsXD]

Just look at the numbers of CPLs which have been issued over the last 5 years. They have skyrocketed and the number gets larger every month.

WA has more than double the CPLs per capita than TX. We like our guns.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

My comment that I posted:

While the concept of dealing with crime is wonderful, you are barking up the wrong tree for a variety of reasons.

10 USC 311 details the militia of the United States. There are two portions of the militia, the "organized" militia, which is the National Guard, and the "unorganized" militia, which is every other adult male in the US between the ages of 17 and 45. U.S.C. : Title 1 - GENERAL PROVISIONS | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

In the landmark decision US v Miller (1939) 307 US 174 the Supreme Court said "the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. "A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily, when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."
<broken link removed>

In order to comply with the law and the Supreme Court, it would seem to me that every adult male in the US SHOULD have an AR style weapon in his home, to be ready to appear bearing an arm of the kind in common use.

 

[mancat]

You've got a point maybe it would be better for it to be a ballot measure and then have it fail so badly could send a big lasting message

Yeah.. The response by them would be hilarious though. They would probably say something like "the NRA/gun lobby won" or make claims of voter fraud. These people are convinced that gun bans are something the majority want, and the only reason that the legislature "won't do anything", as they say, is because of the NRA.

 

[eternalphoenix64]

I figured I'd give them my .02 on the "loophole" discussion.... Of course.... they may get turned off by the use of the word "math" when I was pointing out that less than 1% of criminals incarcerated for violent gun-involved crime obtained their firearm from a gun show without a background check.

 

[jimwest]

post 72 really, really pissed me off. I had to reply. I won't repost the original or my response as it's fairly profanity laden, but I think I made my point. I'm sure I will incur some wrath.

 

[Sun195]

Given that an initiative would affect state law, it's good to remind yourself of what our State Constitution (which governs the extent of state law) says about this topic:

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Can an AWB initiative that "could be a model for the nation", as Dan Savage put it, not violate Section 24? I doubt it.

 

[Dave Workman]

Bill deadline passed, but gun activists not dropping guard

Friday's revelation that a bill aimed at banning so-called "assault rifles" has died in committee does not signal that the fight over gun rights in Olympia is finished, gun rights activists are saying.

<broken link removed>

 

[Misterbill]

Can an AWB initiative that "could be a model for the nation", as Dan Savage put it, not violate Section 24? I doubt it.

The constitution could easily be interpreted to allow for "reasonable regulations." Given that the state SC is liberal in the EXTREME, I wouldn't want to find out how they interpreted it. I'm not aware of any case law on a state level that addresses magazine size limits or "evil features" of guns. I know they banned suppressors and SBR's and that's stood up.

I hate to take things to any court. It's too unpredictable and the consequences of getting a precedent setting ruling against us would be even worse than a voter initiative that we lost.

But we WON'T lose an initiative fight.

The anti-gun forces are being given a massive false sense of momentum by their allies in the media and a president who doesn't have to stand for re-election. Washington is an extremely gun-friendly state, with massive gun ownership levels and higher concealed-carry permit ratios than just about anywhere else. Five different anti-gun proposals just died in the Senate without even getting a committee hearing yesterday.

This is reflective of the country as a whole. Outside of a few well-known hoplophobe states and districts, the appetite for gun control, especially when it's explained to voters, just isn't there. The only thing that's actually popular is a ban on private sales, and even that's only because people don't have any idea that you can't just buy a gun from a dealer on the internet and have it shipped to your home, or think that gun shows are some criminal enterprise firearms bazaar for criminals.

 

[jimwest]

well their thread turned into a trollfest. that was fun

 

[revjen45]

Anybody remember Prop 15 in the DPRK in 1982? The Libtards thought they had it sewed up and lost 62.8% - 37.2%. Not only did they lose on that but their Annointed One Tom Bradley lost in a squeaker, largely due to the turnout to vote down Prop 15. (Unfortunately RINO Emeritus Deukmejian signed Roberti-Roos)
Or how about Prop 676 in WA in Nov. 1997? Lost 70.62% - 29.38% (2.4 - 1). "Although I-676 suffered a crushing defeat, the New York Times said three weeks before the election that polls showed it winning 'by a wide margin'."
From the NYT article: ''If we were to pass an initiative of the people that bypassed the gun lobby and did so in a Western state, it would be truly historic,'' said Tom Wales, a Federal prosecutor who is the co-chairman of Washington Citizens for Handgun Safety, the group sponsoring the initiative.
Polls show that if the vote were taken today, the measure would probably pass by a wide margin."
(Struggle Over Gun Control Laws Shifts to States and Tests N.R.A. - Page 2 - New York Times)

The Progs make a habit overestimating the support for their gun grabs, but when our side is forced to spend the $ to present the truth, what they end up with is massively increased turnout by FREEFOR. So they lose on the gun issue big time plus whatever other socialist tripe and candidates they cherish.

 

[mortar maggot]

This could easily make it on the ballot just have the petition gatherer's work Seattle and they could get enough signiture's in a few days.

Then once on the ballot, there are enough gun owners that do not own, use, or even know what an AW is, that would vote for this.

If this makes it on the ballot I fear this could pass.

 

[skey]

Some folks I know and I countered at the Seattle Ceasefire Rally. McSchwinn stated they would keep coming back again and again just like they did with gay marriage, and it is now the law in WA state. Then the sheeple started with the chant "Yes we can". They will not give up, and any attempt to talk logically with them is like trying to teaching your German Sheppard how to wash the car. We have to be there every time they come up for air. If we let up we are toast.