Substituting Large Pistol Magnum Primers In Place Of Standard Large Rifle Primers.

[arakboss]

I had a decent stock of large pistol primers and came into a bunch more last weekend. I do not have near as many large rifle primers. I am going to try using some LPM primers in my low pressure gallery and reduced rifle loads for smaller cases like 7.62x39, 30-30, 308, etc. I have no concern about the power of the lpm flame lighting up the pistol powders I will be using. My concern is whether or not the firing pins will be able to consistently set off the pistol primers which will sit a little deeper in the rifle case primer pocket. Also will it be difficult to seat the pistol primers to the bottom of the rifle case primer pockets. I use the lee primer arms that came with my classic press. It only came with two one for all small primers and one for all large primers.

If you have loaded large pistol primers in rifle cases did you have any trouble seating them to the bottom of the primer pocket? Did you have any trouble with rifle firing pins setting them off?

(Edited for the sensitives) Safety Sallies Risk adverse of all sexes, save your safety wisdom for somebody who doesn't shoot decked out in this gear.

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[arakboss]

Two more questions for those who have made this substitution. Did the primers back out to meet the bolt face when you fired them. What was the maximum pressure you ran when subbing pistol primers in rifle cases.

 

[red442joe]

Tagged

Joe

 

[eb in oregon]

It is not a generally recommended thing to substitute pistol primers for rifle primers. Rifle primers have a thicker cup to withstand the higher pressures of a rifle. The ONLY substitutions have been in low pressure cartridges like .22 Hornet. As an example loading pistol primers in .30 carbine will result in virtually 100% pierced primers. Been there done that, ruined a firing pin rapidly. Anything you look at using pistol primers is for reduced loads, not normal loads. However it's your gun and your safety. And primers only come in two sizes, large and small. Any dimensional differences are insignificant as dimensional differences between large pistol and rifle primer diameter are less than the diameter of a hair. It's more a different compound and cup thickness. You might try a Lyman cast bullet manual for suggestions for reduced loads.

A PRIMER ON PRIMERS

While searching around for some info I stumbled on to this thread and its too good not to share. Taken from the following and posted by Frisco Pete http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0 CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS Based on an article by John Barsness - GUNS...

www.snipershide.com

Edited for clarity.

 

[WillametteWill]

And primers only come in two sizes, large and small. There is no dimensional differences between pistol and rifle, it's a different compound and cup thickness.

With small primers true, not so with large primers. Chart from Sierra (click to view clearly):

Also from Powder Valley:

1. Small rifle primers – which are about .175 inches in diameter and .120 inches tall.
2. Small pistol primers – which are about the same size as small rifle primers but designed specifically for handguns.
3. Large rifle primers – which measure about .128 inches in height and .212 inches in width.
4. Large pistol primers – which are an average of .120 inches tall and.212 inches wide.

 

[eb in oregon]

The .0005 difference in diameter (five tenths of a thousandth) to .0015 is meaningless, it is still a press fit.The differences in primer depth are miniscule and also virtually meaningless. It might seat a few thousandths deeper but generally that won't hurt a thing. Many 7.62 and 30.06 cases have been shortened for .45acp and they usually work fine with pistol primers. I myself stay with the appropriate primer for pistols and rifles as trying to "cheat" in my experience hasn't been worth it.

 

[arakboss]

It is not a generally recommended thing to substitute pistol primers for rifle primers. Rifle primers have a thicker cup to withstand the higher pressures of a rifle. The ONLY substitutions have been in low pressure cartridges like .22 Hornet. As an example loading pistol primers in .30 carbine will result in virtually 100% pierced primers. Been there done that, ruined a firing pin rapidly. Any thing you look at using pistol primers is for reduced loads, not normal loads. However it's your gun and your safety. And primers only come in two sizes, large and small. There is no dimensional differences between pistol and rifle, it's a different compound and cup thickness. You might try a Lyman cast bullet manual for suggestions for reduced loads.

A PRIMER ON PRIMERS

While searching around for some info I stumbled on to this thread and its too good not to share. Taken from the following and posted by Frisco Pete http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0 CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS Based on an article by John Barsness - GUNS...

www.snipershide.com

I do have the Lyman Cast Book and will use it for load ideas.

 

[WillametteWill]

The .0005 difference in diameter (five tenths of a thousandth) is meaningless, it is still a press fit.The differences in primer depth are miniscule and also virtually meaningless. It might seat a few thousandths deeper but generally that won't hurt a thing. Many 7.62 and 30.06 cases have been shortened for .45acp and they usually work fine with pistol primers. I myself stay with the appropriate primer for pistols and rifles as trying to "cheat" in my experience hasn't been worth it.

I believe it is the .008 (one less zero) in depth where folks have the issue. Think this is what @arakboss was noting in the OP. From what I understand, some have had issues with the additional seating depth with primers either having more movement backward under pressure or too deep causing ignition issues. Sounds like you are well on top of this with your loads, I'm more posting the info for those new to reloading who might wander in here.

 

[Xaevian]

Safety Sallies save your safety wisdom...

Really? Preemptive name calling?

 

[arakboss]

Really? Preemptive name calling?

Edited it, so I don't get Will Smithed.

 

[WillametteWill]

Hey, I've definitely been known to be a Safety Sally (or whatever the dude version is), but I try to be respectful. No offense taken by the original OP...and even if my name is Will, no Smithing will prevail. (closest emoji found for, "The Slap.")

 

[arakboss]

Hey, I've definitely been known to be a Safety Sally (or whatever the dude version is), but I try to be respectful. No offense taken by the original OP...and even if my name is Will, no Smithing will prevail. (closest emoji found for, "The Slap.")

It wasn't suppose to be derogatory but everybody has different levels of sensitivity. My sensitivity level is turned down pretty low which allows me to deal with the haters around here but I didn't want this thread to turn into a "you'll shoot your eye thread" which happens to my threads way too often. Premption is my only hope.

 

[Kruel J]

You'll shoot your eye out.

 

[RVTECH]

If you have loaded large pistol primers in rifle cases did you have any trouble seating them to the bottom of the primer pocket? Did you have any trouble with rifle firing pins setting them off?

No to both questions.

Well, you got me to thinking about this so I went to my reloading 'desk' and 'miked' a CCI LR primer (.125), and then a Remington LP primer (.124)

A 'thou' ain't going to matter much in primer seating (and never has for me). And this was just two primers. I suspect if I measured more I would have found more variances with them.

 

[arakboss]

No to both questions.

Well, you got me to thinking about this so I went to my reloading 'desk' and 'miked' a CCI LR primer (.125), and then a Remington LP primer (.124)

A 'thou' ain't going to matter much in primer seating (and never has for me). And this was just two primers. I suspect if I measured more I would have found more variances with them.

I just checked a Winchester large pistol primer and it was .1205, I also checked a Winchester large rifle primer and it was .127 These were both the same vintage with the white, orange and red boxes. The cast boolet guys have been doing it for a long time but some still argue about whether it is safe or not. I will prime a few 7.62x39 cases and give it a whirl. I suspect it will work just fine for the lazy loads.

 

[RVTECH]

The cast boolet guys have been doing it for a long time but some still argue about whether it is safe or not.

Well, no argument from me and I've been doing it for almost 45 years of reloading now (not regularly, but occasionally - substituting primers that is!)

 

[TTSX]

I need a video when you test out these wrong powder/wrong primer rounds you post about, especially if fired from your "upper only" AR doohickey

 

[arakboss]

Well, no argument from me and I've been doing it for almost 45 years of reloading now (not regularly, but occasionally - substituting primers that is!)

I pressed in one primer and took a measurement with the leg of my cheap dial calipers. The primer appears to be sitting .011 below flush with the case. Measuring the fired case that has a rifle primer in it showed it is sitting exactly flush. Unless I have a really fussy firing pin I am guessing it will set the lp primer off even with the primer sitting .011 below flush.

 

[arakboss]

...

I had a decent stock of large pistol primers and came into a bunch more last weekend. I do not have near as many large rifle primers. I am going to try using some LPM primers in my low pressure gallery and reduced rifle loads for smaller cases like 7.62x39, 30-30, 308, etc. I have no concern about the power of the lpm flame lighting up the pistol powders I will be using. My concern is whether or not the firing pins will be able to consistently set off the pistol primers which will sit a little deeper in the rifle case primer pocket. Also will it be difficult to seat the pistol primers to the bottom of the rifle case primer pockets. I use the lee primer arms that came with my classic press. It only came with two one for all small primers and one for all large primers.

If you have loaded large pistol primers in rifle cases did you have any trouble seating them to the bottom of the primer pocket? Did you have any trouble with rifle firing pins setting them off?

(Edited for the sensitives) Safety Sallies Risk adverse of all sexes, save your safety wisdom for somebody who doesn't shoot decked out in this gear.

View attachment 1168269

Something I noticed in the video is that the pistol primers seemed to be flush with the case head after firing and he did not show what they looked like before firing. Three explanations for this come to mind.

1. He really used rifle primers and made the video claiming they were pistol primers to get attention.

2. He didn't seat the pistol primers below flush.

3. He did seat the primers below flush but the pressure from the load caused the primers to back out and meet the bolt face.

Any of these three scenarios are plausible.

 

[arakboss]

This chap seem to have had good luck with the large pistol primers in rifle cases:

"I use LG pistol primers with cast bullets in the 30-06,7.62 x 39 308,8x57,7.62R,303Br,30-40,7.5 Swiss....you name it.Velocity is uniform with powders from BullsEye to 4759 .The last two years i shot over 15,000 of Federal 150's and Win LP in the 30-06 and 7.62 x 54 with neigh a problem with 16.0 2400,14.0 TrailBoss ,8.5-12g Unique and or 8.0 of B E and GC or plainbase bullets.No filler or orienting used.Velocities were never more than 1600 fps with my loads.Standard deviations are often single digit with the pistol primers.i have never had a misfire though the primers are deeper seated than LR primers.
With the current import Win brand 7.62 x 54 cases the LP primers are the ticket as the pockets are too shallow for most LR primers.


HMP"

Source: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...-primers-used-in-place-of-large-rifle-primers