Stupid NRA Part 2 - Ooopsie and we changed our mind.

[MrNatural]

This is posted as a separate thread because this information should not be buried at the tail-end of the original thread. Ops, please don't combine the threads.

NRA Changes Carry Guard Training Policy, Allows 1911's and Revolvers

". . . our decision to not include 1911s and revolvers as primary firearms in our initial Level I course was a mistake, and we appreciate the feedback we have received from the firearms community."

Full story: NRA Changes Carry Guard Training Policy, Allows 1911's and Revolvers - The Truth About Guns

I recommend going to the site and reading the comments there. Some are priceless.

Also, so much for the NRA groupies in the other thread who claimed "The NRA never said that!!! How dare you!!!". Well, the NRA's admission appears to put those posters into perspective.

The point is NOT that they have rectified their glaring mistake, but: How in the heck did such an INCANDESCENTLY stupid policy make it all the way through the NRA bureaucracy in the first place?? It argues that their thinking machinery is damaged. Or maybe the Frenchman's Fudds are thinking with their PR firm instead of with their membership.

For the record, I'm not against the NRA. I've been an NRA life member for more years than most of you are old. I AM against the ongoing, ossified stupidity, incompetence and shenanigans of the LaPierre Cabal.

Our gun rights are too important to entrust their defense solely to an organization that increasingly appears to be in business for itself. This situation was just one more indication of that.

We pause now for all the NRA groupies to shriek in outraged indignation (again).

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[MrNatural]

Appropriate to this discussion, please consider:

THE IRON LAW OF BUREAUCRACY attributed to writer Jerry Pournelle:

"...in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work to further the organization itself.

The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions."

"Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representatives who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. "

Just recently, the Iron Law in action destroyed the Tea Party.

Some (of us!) believe it applies to the LaPierre Cabal running the NRA.

 

[Diamondback]

Pournelle's Iron Law could also describe the GOP as a whole... thanks for that reminder, it woulda been a very timely Quote of the Day for my column this week.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Well I am glad someone woke up and smelled the coffee ... along with Hoppes #9 ...
Nice to see that folks listened and the training policy has been changed.
Andy

 

[etrain16]

As I stated in the other thread, I suspected this would come back to bite them in the azz, looks like it happened sooner than I expected! Good for them admitting their really, really foolish mistake.

I still don't believe this was some 'Fudd' or 'Lapierre Cabal' decision, I think it really was laziness - trying to force folks into using only very similar guns so the manual of arms for training is the same. Other schools manage to do it with revolvers and 1911's amidst the striker fired polymer wonders, the NRA needs to suck it up and realize not everyone carries the same thing.

I do hope they've learned a lesson here. Perhaps they're not as in touch with the American gun owner as they'd like to think.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Yep if you are teaching a firearms class , you need to allow for instruction of many different types of firearms... Not just the ones you prefer or what seems to be the most popular in your area.
Granted I do not expect a modern carry course to be made to fit a cap and ball revolver.
But a Ruger Blackhawk or Colt SAA or clone could easily be used as a carry gun and would not be unheard of in a class along side of a more modern pistol design.

The classes need to be tailored to the students and their needs.
A "one size fits all approach" , often means one size fits none.
Andy

 

[etrain16]

BTW, their updated policy still excludes some revolvers as a primary weapon - they state you can use any safe gun with a capacity of not less than 6 rounds. So those with the little 5-round revolvers - still excluded, as a 'primary' weapon.

 

[etrain16]

Yep if you are teaching a firearms class , you need to allow for instruction of many different types of firearms... Not just the ones you prefer or what seems to be the most popular in your area.
Granted I do not expect a modern carry course to be made to fit a cap and ball revolver.
But a Ruger Blackhawk or Colt SAA or clone could easily be used as a carry gun and would not be unheard of in a class along side of a more modern pistol design.

The classes need to be tailored to the students needs.
A "one size fits all approach" , often means one size fits none.
Andy

Either that, or you're going to have to make separate classes for the revolver and 1911 folks, which probably gets spendy.

 

[Medic!]

BTW, their updated policy still excludes some revolvers as a primary weapon - they state you can use any safe gun with a capacity of not less than 6 rounds. So those with the little 5-round revolvers - still excluded, as a 'primary' weapon.

What!

My S&W 500 is out?

 

[etrain16]

What!

My S&W 500 is out?

I don't see any caliber restrictions. Maybe someone could come in with a DE .50 or .44 or maybe a Coonan .357?

 

[Medic!]

I don't see any caliber restrictions. Maybe someone could come in with a DE .50 or .44 or maybe a Coonan .357?

S&W 500's only hold five rounds.

 

[etrain16]

S&W 500's only hold five rounds.

Yes, I did realize that, but your comment got me thinking about guns with large calibers, but hold more than 5 rounds. Maybe couldn't do the .500, but some other fun options to mess with them

 

[RVTECH]

Also, so much for the NRA groupies in the other thread who claimed "The NRA never said that!!!

Apparently I missed the 'other thread' - link please so I can read it also?

 

[206thsense]

Excluding revolvers is a huge mistake. Revolvers might be "old" technology, but they're still a popular primary carry gun by many folks.

 

[Alexx1401]

LOL, I love the line about we appreciate the feedback. Yea I bet. They got a LOT of really mad people asking them to pull their head out is what happened. It is still amazing to me that they let this happen in the first place.

 

[Diamondback]

Yep if you are teaching a firearms class , you need to allow for instruction of many different types of firearms... Not just the ones you prefer or what seems to be the most popular in your area.
Granted I do not expect a modern carry course to be made to fit a cap and ball revolver.
But a Ruger Blackhawk or Colt SAA or clone could easily be used as a carry gun and would not be unheard of in a class along side of a more modern pistol design.

The classes need to be tailored to the students and their needs.
A "one size fits all approach" , often means one size fits none.
Andy

Didn't Clint Smith write a piece early in the 2000's, like around '01 to '05--I seem to recall reading it while I was in college--assessing the blackpowder revolver as a defensive sidearm? IIRC his verdict was "while less than optimal, they will still do the job."

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Not sure if he did or not.
I do know that if loaded properly a cap and ball revolver will "keep" for a long while and still do the job is was intended for.
A .375 or .454 round ball pushed by 20-40 grains of blackpowder is nothing to take lightly.
Andy

 

[Diamondback]

What's the old line about nobody EVER saying "he ONLY shot me with a .22"? LOL

 

[Koda]

A company that doesnt know enough about guns to exclude perhaps the single most combat proven gun in gun history, is probably not the company one would want to pay to train with...

 

[Diamondback]

Not to mention their "curriculum author" being unable to master something so basic as "KEEP YOUR DAMN BOOGERHOOK OFF THE EFFIN' BANGSWITCH!"...