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When hydro power resources are built, it's a big dam, with big turbines and generators made to last decades. A dam and its power equipment is concentrated in one place. Other traditional power plants such as coal or natural gas are large installations of scale in concentrations.

Then we come to green power, which at this point consists primarily of solar or wind devices. I've got to wonder about the relative permanence of these generation devices.

1. Solar panels are claimed to be good for about 25, maybe 30 years. Most solar equipment hasn't been installed for that long yet, and now it's starting to be seen that maybe 15 to 20 year life might be a reality. Even it a panel in an array hasn't quit completely, its ability to general power declines over time. Yes, there are very large solar panel arrays in places like the Mojave Desert. Which consist of very many individual panels and switching devices, etc. All of which, while concentrated together, take a certain amount of monitoring and maintenance. Proponents of solar power call these maintenance free; but just cleaning the desert dust off panels will be a constant requirement. My point, it isn't just build it once and then you have free power forever after the cost recovery is achieved. Which is another area of contention, how long the payoff time is.

Re. individual home and building solar power units, same comment applies. But these are scattered all over Hell and begone, and will require maintenance calls to who knows how many individual sites. There is a budding career field in this scenario.

Home solar power generation has been touted as a way to sell excess power to the local utility. Which in many areas doesn't want the excess power; they want to sell electric power at retail to consumers, not buy power back from them.

Because of the money involved, there is a lot of hype and promotion going on for solar power units. Smart consumers really need to look at this situation carefully before committing to an expensive, major project. Projected estimates as to equipment longevity and cost recovery should be looked at with some degree of skepticism, I'd think.

Once a home solar project is engaged in, there can be unforeseen financial consequences. Because sometimes, expensive projects are financed and a lien is placed on real property. A prospective buyer of a home with solar equipment would want to check on this.

2. Windmills or similar wind powered devices. These things don't really have home or retail installation counterparts such as solar does. These are typically large institutional projects. That are scattered over a wide geographical area. The windmills or turbines are not static electrical devices like a solar panel. They are dynamic, electro-mechanical devices with big, moving parts. The blades fall off. The turning parts of the generator and gearing need looking after and sometimes downright break. The coating on the edges of the blades has a finite life and needs replacement. Power from these things is never going to be free, they will be a maintenance headache forever.

An inherent technical downside of solar and wind power generation is weather.
 
Fossil fueled generators fix that.
I'm thinking on a larger scale than that, like when the wind stops blowing over an entire region. Yes, there are generators large enough to make up for that, they are called power plants. Probably a good reason why coal and nat gas power plants shouldn't all be shuttered, as the Germans found out when they had to rethink doing that.

And we haven't even begun to discuss all the batteries yet.
I'm not expert on solar power installations. However, a friend of mine in NM is a retired facilities manager; he's up on the engineering of these things. He has one he installed himself. It has batteries for storage and we have discussed this aspect. This is another area where estimates of component life may be somewhat optimistic. The truth will only be known in years to come after a significant investment has been made. A true Beta situation.

My pal in NM agrees that his system is probably only good for 15 years until it will need attention; I think he said that was about his break even threshold as well, since he isn't a big user of electric power. His concerns are more about the possibility of a long interruption of his regular, public power source. I also think he liked tinkering with the design and installation of it. He did admit he isn't bothered about it's practical life being 15 years or a bit more; at age 73, he figures he may not need it even that long. I don't remember the numbers, but he told me how much materials and permits cost with the labor supplied by himself. Then I asked him what a similar outfit would cost retail for a homeowner who paid for the entire package including installation, and I remember thinking there was a lot of money in the labor component.

My pal's local utility won't buy excess power from residential solar systems.
 
I'm thinking on a larger scale than that, like when the wind stops blowing over an entire region. Yes, there are generators large enough to make up for that, they are called power plants. Probably a good reason why coal and nat gas power plants shouldn't all be shuttered, as the Germans found out when they had to rethink doing that.


I'm not expert on solar power installations. However, a friend of mine in NM is a retired facilities manager; he's up on the engineering of these things. He has one he installed himself. It has batteries for storage and we have discussed this aspect. This is another area where estimates of component life may be somewhat optimistic. The truth will only be known in years to come after a significant investment has been made. A true Beta situation.

My pal in NM agrees that his system is probably only good for 15 years until it will need attention; I think he said that was about his break even threshold as well, since he isn't a big user of electric power. His concerns are more about the possibility of a long interruption of his regular, public power source. I also think he liked tinkering with the design and installation of it. He did admit he isn't bothered about it's practical life being 15 years or a bit more; at age 73, he figures he may not need it even that long. I don't remember the numbers, but he told me how much materials and permits cost with the labor supplied by himself. Then I asked him what a similar outfit would cost retail for a homeowner who paid for the entire package including installation, and I remember thinking there was a lot of money in the labor component.

My pal's local utility won't buy excess power from residential solar systems.
I have absolutely no issues with individual small scale household solar systems. It may be an area where solar shines. I have my doubts, however, that wind and solar can actually power the entire country needs efficiently, effectively, and reliably...and what the real world costs would be to the environment with regards to all the mining and ultimate landfill issues when the components expire.

With that said, I'm also curious how your friend's system will be good for 15 years. My understanding is that batteries usually need to be replaced at about the 7-8 year mark. I haven't heard of a battery with a 15 year life to it...but maybe there is something new on the market that achieves this.
 
With that said, I'm also curious how your friend's system will be good for 15 years. My understanding is that batteries usually need to be replaced at about the 7-8 year mark. I haven't heard of a battery with a 15 year life to it...but maybe there is something new on the market that achieves this.
I think we had that conversation. I believe he realizes he may not get 15 years out of the batts, and he recognizes diminution of charge capacity. "Rated" doesn't mean "reality," unfortunately, because there is a marketing component in the retail home system business. My pal figures the rooftop pieces are probably good for 15 years as a reality. The batteries are more iffy, back to the Beta testing concept. Most of these systems haven't been operating that long.
 

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