Stocking ammo - brass vs steel case at half the price?

[Caveman Jim]

I'm going to echo the statement about storage. Going thru my in laws house, i've inherited a bunch of guns and ammo of late - and sadly, over 2/3 of the ammo has been bad - badly corroded steel and brass cases brass is not impervious to corrosion. I've had bad nickel plated brass that's been corroded, polished brass corroded, steel corroded. It's been pistol, rifle, and shotgun rounds. I have a 5 gallon bucket full of ammo soaking in water right now, that was all badly corroded.

Yeah I hear what you're saying, I recently found this batch of brand new Winchester primed 223 brass. I was working away loading these things and picked one up and it had corrosion spots on it, so I looked through the rest that I had just reloaded and I found two that had corrosion that I had missed. All in all out of 500 I found it nine with corrosion.
I found it odd because they were in a vacuum sealed bag for over 5 years....

I'm not going to chance it so they go into the scrap bucket. Better safe than sorry that's for damn sure.

 

[Bushman]

Then tell me why the Kel-Tec didn't jam with brass ammo. Tell me why my M1A runs smoothly on brass-cased ammo but not steel.
Look, if that junk works for you then by all means keep using it. It caused problems for me and that puts it on my no-fly list.

Ummm...I just did. Because your gun is finicky. An AK doesn't have these issues because the gun is not finicky. But according to your "logic" the reason an AK has no ammo issues is because steel cased ammo is great! It's not because the gun isn't finicky.

Same thing with most AR's. They work just fine with steel case if built properly. I don't say steel cased ammo is quality ammo and thus THAT'S why it works in an AR or AK. I say the AR and AK aren't finicky because they eat all ammo. The ammo isn't the problem, if you put it in an AK or AR it will work. When you put it in a finicky crap gun like you described, it jams...that isn't the ammo, it's the gun...not hard to figure out. Take it and put it in a quality gun and it works. That means the gun is the issue not the ammo chief...

 

[Bushman]

Yeah I hear what you're saying, I recently found this batch of brand new Winchester primed 223 brass. I was working away loading these things and picked one up and it had corrosion spots on it, so I looked through the rest that I had just reloaded and I found two that had corrosion that I had missed. All in all out of 500 I found it nine with corrosion.
I found it odd because they were in a vacuum sealed bag for over 5 years....

I'm not going to chance it so they go into the scrap bucket. Better safe than sorry that's for damn sure.

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So there goes the argument for brass case. It corrodes as well very easily.

 

[Bushman]

Most rifles run perfectly fine on steelcase ammo, some wont. All my AR'S function fine on steelcase, but my buddy's Rock River arms AR will get a stuck case in about 20 rounds or so. My shooting buddy has ran nothing but steelcase thru his AR since I met him 7 years ago, I like to know which rifles I own car run it reliably and which ones won't just to know even tho I run brass case thru my American guns. I just picked up,a 7.62 upper for my AR that I will run nothing but steelcase thru, and I am sure it will function flawlessly as my buddy has the exact upper. I wouldn't say steelcase is crap because unfortunately it wouldn't run in your specific rifles. Again some rifles are picky, I think because of tighter tolerance barrels but that's just my guess.

Yeah, but some people don't seem to get this. They think like that guy does that if it doesn't work in his gun it must be the ammo not the gun. Yet what they don't realize is if they put that in a quality gun it will work just fine. So the ammo variable isn't the issue, it's the finicky gun but don't let logic into the discussion..

 

[Bushman]

I think I'll get a little of both since brass also corrodes easily.

 

[CLT65]

Yeah I hear what you're saying, I recently found this batch of brand new Winchester primed 223 brass. I was working away loading these things and picked one up and it had corrosion spots on it, so I looked through the rest that I had just reloaded and I found two that had corrosion that I had missed. All in all out of 500 I found it nine with corrosion.
I found it odd because they were in a vacuum sealed bag for over 5 years....

I'm not going to chance it so they go into the scrap bucket. Better safe than sorry that's for damn sure.

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Doesn't look that bad to me. If it's surface tarnish/corrosion, and not structurally compromised, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I've used worse.

But at the same time you are absolutely right. Brass is cheap; if in doubt, it's no big deal to just scrap it.

 

[Caveman Jim]

So there goes the argument for brass case. It corrodes as well very easily.

Well no where near as much as steel cased ammo that's for sure, it makes a huge difference on how it's stored.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Doesn't look that bad to me. If it's surface tarnish/corrosion, and not structurally compromised, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I've used worse.

But at the same time you are absolutely right. Brass is cheap; if in doubt, it's no big deal to just scrap it.

When one has thousands of brass cases it's no biggie to toss some that look questionable.

I just pulled down about a hundred of LC 5.56 rounds that were wreaking havoc with FTF and sticking in the chamber of my new pistol build. They are to be deprimed and tossed in the bucket for recycling. No sweat.

 

[Bushman]

Well no where near as much as steel cased ammo that's for sure, it makes a huge difference on how it's stored.

He said they were stored in vacuum sealed bags. I have seen steel case that was stored in the trunk of a car for years and had no rust. That said steel case does rust more quickly. If I left brass and steel casings in the pit, the steel case would certainly rust faster.

 

[Caveman Jim]

He said they were stored in vacuum sealed bags. I have seen steel case that was stored in the trunk of a car for years and had no rust. That said steel case does rust more quickly. If I left brass and steel casings in the pit, the steel case would certainly rust faster.

Yeah, that's what I said. I have no idea what condition they were in when they were sealed up.
One time when I was in the service, I went on leave for 30 days & I had spilled some Brasso on one of my MI brass belt buckles, when I came back it had corrosion on it.
Nothing metallic is impervious to corrosion....

 

[Certaindeaf]

Stocking ammo isn't a real good idea. Christmas only comes around once a year and it's pretty heavy.

 

[CountryGent]

My experience with steel cased ammo has been overwhelmingly bad, with a few exceptions. No thanks; sticking with brass.

 

[wired]

Brass only here, for me it's all about corrosion resistance. I live on the water in the Puget Sound and I already have to oil down my blued guns weekly to keep rust at bay.

I have the opposite problem. Brass corrodes MUCH worse than steel cases do in the high humidity summers here. I have to put my brass stuff in zip lock bags to keep them from corroding. The steel Russian stuff could care less.
All my .223 AR's ingest a steady diet of steel case ammo. No complaints.

 

[Red98422]

I have the opposite problem. Brass corrodes MUCH worse than steel cases do in the high humidity summers here. I have to put my brass stuff in zip lock bags to keep them from corroding. The steel Russian stuff could care less.
All my .223 AR's ingest a steady diet of steel case ammo. No complaints.

Yeah I do not miss summers over on the east coast (I was in NC for 4 years), my main issue currently is damn salt water...it does start to corrode brass a bit, but the steel might as well be made out of wrought iron...damn shame too, the price for steel can be much cheaper for bulk ammo

 

[wired]

Yeah I do not miss summers over on the east coast (I was in NC for 4 years), my main issue currently is damn salt water...it does start to corrode brass a bit, but the steel might as well be made out of wrought iron...damn shame too, the price for steel can be much cheaper for bulk ammo

August. I cant drink beer fast enough to replace what I sweat out in August. If I'm out in the garage working on stuff and my shirt gets soaked with sweat like wring it out and a pint of water wrings out of the fabric and I hang it up to dry in the 100 degree suns heat...it doesnt.

 

[GWS]

Ummm...I just did. Because your gun is finicky. An AK doesn't have these issues because the gun is not finicky. But according to your "logic" the reason an AK has no ammo issues is because steel cased ammo is great! It's not because the gun isn't finicky.

Same thing with most AR's. They work just fine with steel case if built properly. I don't say steel cased ammo is quality ammo and thus THAT'S why it works in an AR or AK. I say the AR and AK aren't finicky because they eat all ammo. The ammo isn't the problem, if you put it in an AK or AR it will work. When you put it in a finicky crap gun like you described, it jams...that isn't the ammo, it's the gun...not hard to figure out. Take it and put it in a quality gun and it works. That means the gun is the issue not the ammo chief...

I'm guessing either reading or "logic" isn't your strong suit. Where did I say that the ammo is the reason Russian guns work? I said that I would only use steel case ammo in guns that were designed for it, i.e. Russian guns, which were designed to shoot steel case ammo, hence, I have it for my SKS and AK. Frankly, I wouldn't waste the money on brass cased ammo for them. They work fine with steel case because they were made to work with steel cased ammo. AFAIK, American/Western European guns were all designed to work with brass ammo. So you think Kel-Tec and Springfield Armory make crap guns. Fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I say steel cased ammo is crap That's my opinion

Regarding "finicky" guns--The gun shops I buy at don't let you try the gun out with various types of ammo to see if its finicky. So I buy the gun and then have to sort it out with the ammo. Given that ammo is cheaper to switch than guns, even crappy guns, I choose to be finicky over the ammo. That is my "logic".
I have had a couple bad experiences with steel case and so for me it's crap. And since I can afford brass cased ammo for my non Russian guns I see no reason to spend money on ammo I view as crap.
I don't like, steel cased ammo, I don't need steel cased ammo and I can afford better ammo,
If my calling that ammo crap hurts your feelings, well, sorry about that. Maybe you should just be happy that my opinion means less competition for steel-cased ammunition

 

[wired]

I dont buy guns. I build them and not just in the Lego AR-15 sense . I stockpile brass case ammo and shoot it when I'm out of steel case . Steel case is the first choice for bulk shooting and if a gun doesnt like shooting steel case ammo it sure as hell will by the time I'm done repairing that defective gun.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Does it really matter....?
Buy what works for your firearms and how you shoot.
Its not a good deal , even if its free , if you have no use for it...or can't use it.

Sure its good to discuss different ideas , methods , items and the like...
But at the end the of the day you will do the best if you use what works for you and your situation , not what someone else likes , needs or uses.
Andy

 

[ron]

Back in the day when SKS rifles and 762X39 were dirt cheap I shot a lot of steel case 223 and 762X39. After a couple
mag dumps with an AR if you chambered a round with a hot chamber it would stick. It would go bang but not extract.
The lacquer finished steel case ammo would stick in the chamber requiring a cleaning rod to knock it out. Not so bad with
an AK or SKS rifles probably because of the chromed chamber. I would stockpile brass case ammo for that reason.
My buddy and I would split the cost of a case of 762X39 and "Blast" nearly 1K rounds in an outing.
1K of 762X39 would cost around $89.

 

[Bushman]

I'm guessing either reading or "logic" isn't your strong suit. Where did I say that the ammo is the reason Russian guns work? I said that I would only use steel case ammo in guns that were designed for it, i.e. Russian guns, which were designed to shoot steel case ammo, hence, I have it for my SKS and AK. Frankly, I wouldn't waste the money on brass cased ammo for them. They work fine with steel case because they were made to work with steel cased ammo. AFAIK, American/Western European guns were all designed to work with brass ammo. So you think Kel-Tec and Springfield Armory make crap guns. Fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I say steel cased ammo is crap That's my opinion

Regarding "finicky" guns--The gun shops I buy at don't let you try the gun out with various types of ammo to see if its finicky. So I buy the gun and then have to sort it out with the ammo. Given that ammo is cheaper to switch than guns, even crappy guns, I choose to be finicky over the ammo. That is my "logic".
I have had a couple bad experiences with steel case and so for me it's crap. And since I can afford brass cased ammo for my non Russian guns I see no reason to spend money on ammo I view as crap.
I don't like, steel cased ammo, I don't need steel cased ammo and I can afford better ammo,
If my calling that ammo crap hurts your feelings, well, sorry about that. Maybe you should just be happy that my opinion means less competition for steel-cased ammunition

Ummmmm, you're really embarrassing yourself here.....here is where you said it three times:

"as far as I am concerned Steel cased ammo is crap."

And when I tried to explain a freshman level critical thinking level concept to you, you ask me to tell you WHY brass works in your gun but the steel stuff doesn't....that's the same thing as blaming the ammo....

"Then tell me why the Kel-Tec didn't jam with brass ammo. Tell me why my M1A runs smoothly on brass-cased ammo but not steel."


And here is your previous post blaming jams with a Kel-Tec SU16 on steel cased ammo which is not a high quality firearm on steel case ammo.

"Using Wolf laquered case 5.56 would cause a jam after 20 rounds, like clockwork in a
Kel-Tec SU-16. Remove the stuck case, scrub the chamber with a chamber brush with CLP and 20 rounds later it jammed. The SU-16 shot brass-cased ammo without failures. It only had issues with Wolf I never bothered with Barnaul or TUL
The theory was that the steel case didn't expand enough to seal the chamber so crap from dirty powder would rapidly build up in the chamber till it was enough to wedge the case. I had a similar issue with Wolf .308 in my Loaded M1A. I had to repeatedly come off the line at Front Sight until I gave up on the Wolf and switched back to brass cased ammo.
YMMV, but as far as I am concerned Steel cased ammo is crap. The savings are not worth it if I can't trust it and since I have found it detrimental in 2 firearms I owned, I will avoid it.

So let's review....you think because steel cased ammo jams in a crap off brand gun but brass works, that it's the ammo...yet as my "faulty logic" tried to educate you in the ways of critical thinking, if you take that same ammo and put it in a quality name brand AR or AK it will work with no issues. This is called a variable. Your gun is the issue. Not the steel cased ammo. If you really think the same ammo won't work in a quality AR or AK and that a Kel-Tec is a quality gun then you are beyond teaching basic critical thinking to.

Then to top it off when I explain this to you repeatedly, you try to claim you never said it's the ammo...well I just quoted 3 of your posts where you said that it is....


Right, logic isn't my strong suit....

Says the guy who thinks because ammo that doesn't work in his gun is the ammo's fault, not the gun, just because OTHER ammo works in the same gun. Yet if you take the same ammo and put it in another gun, the ammo works. It's not YOUR gun....and apparently you didn't say it's the ammo despite being quoted THREE times saying so and vehimently deny that it was your gun in your previous posts. It's my logic and the ammo that's the problem. lol

Thanks for letting me know.

Notice post #53 also tried to explain logic to you but you just refuse to leave your poorly thought out position.

You're basically taking an off brand Lebanese car that can only run on supreme gas and then blaming 89 grade gas as the problem when your car doesn't run on anything but 92. Yet if you take the 89 grade gas and put it in another car it works just fine...LOGIC. Educate yourself. But no you're right, it's the gas or the ammo that's the problem..

Enjoy your HIGH quality Kel-Tec...carried by military and police everywhere....

Welcome to the ignore list. I own numerous rental properties in King County and am a Tech Executive, I have 3 houses that are turning over and 11 applications to go through, really don't have time to explain sophomoric concepts to people who can't even remember the three times they said it's the "crap" ammo then claim they never said that and say I struggle with logic...you can't even read or remember correctly...

And my financial success is as a result of my poor logic lol