Stocking ammo - brass vs steel case at half the price?

[Geardo]

$269.50 shipped per case, currently at Target Sports USA.

Wolf Gold 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket - Ammo Deals

Wolf Gold 223 Ammo 55 Grain FMJ at Target Sports USA. Enjoy free shipping on bulk 223 Remington ammunition for sale online.

www.targetsportsusa.com

$247.94 shipped, for "prime" members.

Prime membership is $95, for a year, currently. So really depends upon how much one shoots & what of interest they have to offer. For us, it's mostly various 9mm, plinking/drill 7.62x39, and this stuff.

Be mindful, Target will tack on shipping insurance, but worthwhile IMO, for any expensive shipment. Normally under $10 for multiple case order.

Mind 2: I really like SGammo, so absolutely not a knock on Sam and his family/crew. However, I need to do what best serves my family, when possible. Currently have a VY large order from SG inbound, of stuff not available at any other reliable source.

Since target sports started adding tax, I might go back to SG for a while.

 

[Camelfilter]

Since target sports started adding tax, I might go back to SG for a while.

A missed that you all are up WA way, sorry!

Yah, the tax will kill any value saved.

Hopefully it'll be a while before SG gets a software upgrade to account for the various state mandated interwebs taxing.

 

[Stomper]

Brass!! Personally I have found that brands like wolf are dirtier and since I reload brass for everything just makes sense.

so, you're saying your a leg and brass man?

 

[osprey]

Since target sports started adding tax, I might go back to SG for a while.

S&G are taxing ammo sales to WA. I just bought a case of IMI green tips. $357 to my door. Still not bad for some of the best m855 out there.

 

[GWS]

I've yet to see steel case ammo cause issues in even el cheapo $400 AR's that don't even have chrome lined barrels. I suspect your rifles would jam even if not cleaned. Thousands of rounds without cleaning and zero issues. Just oil.

You suspect incorrectly
Using Wolf laquered case 5.56 would cause a jam after 20 rounds, like clockwork in a
Kel-Tec SU-16. Remove the stuck case, scrub the chamber with a chamber brush with CLP and 20 rounds later it jammed. The SU-16 shot brass-cased ammo without failures. It only had issues with Wolf I never bothered with Barnaul or TUL
The theory was that the steel case didn't expand enough to seal the chamber so crap from dirty powder would rapidly build up in the chamber till it was enough to wedge the case. I had a similar issue with Wolf .308 in my Loaded M1A. I had to repeatedly come off the line at Front Sight until I gave up on the Wolf and switched back to brass cased ammo.
YMMV, but as far as I am concerned Steel cased ammo is crap. The savings are not worth it if I can't trust it and since I have found it detrimental in 2 firearms I owned, I will avoid it. .

 

[Tony617]

A missed that you all are up WA way, sorry!

Yah, the tax will kill any value saved.

Hopefully it'll be a while before SG gets a software upgrade to account for the various state mandated interwebs taxing.

Too late since SGAmmo charges Washington State sales tax already. Plus shipping costs as well.

 

[Meridian7750]

1) brass only, for all the reasons already mentioned.
2) I'm surprised nobody has commented on your 855 vs 193 reasoning. Don't confuse historically higher prices for 855 with the thought that it must be superior. There is a strong belief that the terminal ballistics of 193 are indeed "better" than its green-tipped cousin.

 

[titsonritz]

For your AR, M855 and M193 military spec ammunition is best for stock piling** as it has been specifically designed with that purpose in mind. A couple of exterior characteristics you should see is a rainbow coloring of the brass at the neck area from a process called annealing and sealed primers.

A lot of great AK ammo is corrosive, it was made that why to withstand adverse storage conditions. I use steel in my AK only for training ammo.

**This is not to say commercial ammo will not last for many years.

 

[Geardo]

A 6.5 grendel upper is another option.

MILITARY CLASSIC AMMO 6.5MM GRENDEL 100GR FMJ | Brownells

Affordable without sacrificing reliability, Wolf's 6.5mm Grendel steel cased Military Classic is priced economically so you can stock up and spend more time shooting. Feature berdan primed steel cases. Bullets are made with a bimetal jacket and wi...

www.brownells.com

 

[Wombat of Doom]

A 6.5 grendel upper is another option.

MILITARY CLASSIC AMMO 6.5MM GRENDEL 100GR FMJ | Brownells

Affordable without sacrificing reliability, Wolf's 6.5mm Grendel steel cased Military Classic is priced economically so you can stock up and spend more time shooting. Feature berdan primed steel cases. Bullets are made with a bimetal jacket and wi...

www.brownells.com

It works well for me in my Grendels. Not as perfect as I suspect handloading could do. But good enough. I pretty much run steel through anything in 7.62x39 and mostly 6.5Grendel.

My 9mm carbines generally do not like steel cased. I am debating trying it in the Sten because I do have a machine gun. Also brass run through the Sten is pretty much destroyed. I haven't run any steel through it yet. Honestly though I get weirder issues with blazer brass than steel.

 

[leadcounsel]

Steel for commie guns, brass for the rest.

But why bother stockpiling? According to internet commandos common calibers will laying around everywhere like a video-game resupply level up cache after SHTF...

 

[Bushman]

You suspect incorrectly
Using Wolf laquered case 5.56 would cause a jam after 20 rounds, like clockwork in a
Kel-Tec SU-16. Remove the stuck case, scrub the chamber with a chamber brush with CLP and 20 rounds later it jammed. The SU-16 shot brass-cased ammo without failures. It only had issues with Wolf I never bothered with Barnaul or TUL
The theory was that the steel case didn't expand enough to seal the chamber so crap from dirty powder would rapidly build up in the chamber till it was enough to wedge the case. I had a similar issue with Wolf .308 in my Loaded M1A. I had to repeatedly come off the line at Front Sight until I gave up on the Wolf and switched back to brass cased ammo.
YMMV, but as far as I am concerned Steel cased ammo is crap. The savings are not worth it if I can't trust it and since I have found it detrimental in 2 firearms I owned, I will avoid it. .

Ummmm....a Kel-Tec really? Thousands of rounds without cleaning in AR platforms using steel case and no issues. I had a Kel-Tec Sub2K that jammed CONSTANTLY, EVERY round with 9mm brass ammo and factory Glock mags. It would literally tear the brass on the feed ramp. Kel-Tec is junk...

So AK's will take brass and steel case just fine and are known for their reliability...

AR's will take both just fine and are also known for their reliability and accuracy....

A Kel-Tec junk rifle doesn't take it and it's the ammo that's bad.... No, your rifle is finicky...

 

[GWS]

Ummmm....a Kel-Tec really? Thousands of rounds without cleaning in AR platforms using steel case and no issues. I had a Kel-Tec Sub2K that jammed CONSTANTLY, EVERY round with 9mm brass ammo and factory Glock mags. It would literally tear the brass on the feed ramp. Kel-Tec is junk...

Then tell me why the Kel-Tec didn't jam with brass ammo. Tell me why my M1A runs smoothly on brass-cased ammo but not steel.
Look, if that junk works for you then by all means keep using it. It caused problems for me and that puts it on my no-fly list.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Then tell me why the Kel-Tec didn't jam with brass ammo. Tell me why my M1A runs smoothly on brass-cased ammo but not steel.
Look, if that junk works for you then by all means keep using it. It caused problems for me and that puts it on my no-fly list.

Because your gun is finicky and likes Brass. Not all guns have the same preferences. I have a cx4 storm that is pretty much guaranteed to jam with steel. My ruger will eat steel all day. The CX4 is the better gun.

I am wondering just what crap ammo would not go bang in my MPA defender. Sucker digests anything. I am pretty sure if you through any crap in there it would work Tula will fire without a hitch. And to be fair, some of the rounds were clearly slightly deformed in the steel. small burs, slightly shorter than spec cases, what were duds in other guns. I don't get it. Its part of why I love that ugly weird gun.

 

[GWS]

Because your gun is finicky and likes Brass. Not all guns have the same preferences. I have a cx4 storm that is pretty much guaranteed to jam with steel. My ruger will eat steel all day. The CX4 is the better gun.

That may very well be the case, but I have neither the time or inclination to see which of my guns eat steel and which ones gag on it. I am happily at a place in life where I don't need the savings steel ammo may give and so, why should I buy ammo I will always be suspicious of? For those folks it works for: Good on you. For myself I don't want it. Besides that steel ammo isn't reloadable either.
Strike 3!

 

[Wombat of Doom]

That may very well be the case, but I have neither the time or inclination to see which of my guns eat steel and which ones gag on it. I am happily at a place in life where I don't need the savings steel ammo may give and so, why should I buy ammo I will always be suspicious of? For those folks it works for: Good on you. For myself I don't want it. Besides that steel ammo isn't reloadable either.
Strike 3!

It is half cost or less in 7.62x39, and generally behaves as well as brass. I got a bunch of steel cased 9mm at $.09 a round. It is some of my plinking stuff.

 

[gmerkt]

military spec ammunition is best for stock piling

This. US weapons were designed to shoot with brass cases. So it might be wise, where possible, to try to use what they were designed for. Primarily for reasons of reliability.

The use of steel cases for military ammo is based on two main factors. (1) Relative scarcity of strategic materials in wartime. (2) Economy of manufacture. Steel cases in small arms applications are not used primarily because they are the superior material. So if you want to save money on ammo, just know that the steel cased product isn't the best quality no matter how well it works in your weapon.

I don't buy the steel cased product and never would for any rifle. I've had case rim fractures on 7.92mm ammo made in Germany in WW2. When the ammo was "only" 25 years old, not 75 years old as it would be today. I've broken a extractor on a steel cased 31M cartridge in a Hungarian 35M rifle because the fired case stuck in the chamber. I'm pretty sure steel case ammo is made better now than it was in WW2 but I don't need to go there for the difference in price.

There is 9mm steel cased pistol ammo on the market now; Hornady "Steel Match." Which may be a misnomer, because I don't know how a steel case would necessarily qualify this as match ammo. I bought a box of it out of curiosity. Haven't fired any yet but I'm sure it will be okay. But the cost was really very close to brass case 9mm so no real advantage there.

For a while, there was commercial .223 available utilizing a plastic case with steel head. I don't know what happened to those. I imagine they may initially have been thought to be cheaper to make. But as a composite case, perhaps that turned out not to be.

As a practical matter, the reloading option is pretty much out on most steel cased product. With this in mind, the purchase savings of steel case ammo gives up the salvage value of brass cases for reloading. Note, I said most, not all. Also note my use of the word, "practical." I only put these repeat notes in here because I know there are people on this board who like to argue for the sake of argument.

I have experimented with reloading contemporary steel cases in .308 Win. Including some using primer adapters from Berdan to Boxer. Not worth the effort or expense. I ruined a $200 M14 bolt in the course of these experiments.

 

[GWS]

It is half cost or less in 7.62x39, and generally behaves as well as brass. I got a bunch of steel cased 9mm at $.09 a round. It is some of my plinking stuff.

Spot on about 7.62x39 ammo it is way cheaper than brass and I'll admit that I have that stuff for my SKS's. I should have been clearer by saying I just won't use steel ammo in anything that isn't Russian made/designed.
I haven't seen steel 9, 40 or 45 ammo in ages (But I haven't been looking either) I find Blazer Brass is pretty inexpensive when BiMart runs a sale. IIRC, I got 350 rounds of 9mm for $39.99 before Christmas. And it's reloadable!

 

[gmerkt]

I find Blazer Brass is pretty inexpensive when BiMart runs a sale. IIRC, I got 350 rounds of 9mm for $39.99 before Christmas. And it's reloadable!

For inexpensive ammo, Blazer Brass is acceptable for what it is. I've reloaded some of their cases, no different from other brands.

I bought a 1,000 piece bag of CCI aluminum .38 Special cases from Rocky Mountain Reloaders some time back. These were unfired cases that had been pulled down. They were primed, but I felt it wise to resize them (without decapping) even though they hadn't been fired. Aluminum has a different "memory" than brass. Anyway, they didn't need cleaning, were already primed so I ran some through my Dillon 550, no problems. My grandson has fired a lot of these with low-velocity wadcutters. One use and they are scrap, they don't hold up to multiple loadings.

 

[GWS]

For a while, there was commercial .223 available utilizing a plastic case with steel head. I don't know what happened to those. I imagine they may initially have been thought to be cheaper to make. But as a composite case, perhaps that turned out not to be.

LOL I had some of that polymer cased ammo and I recall it have a brass case head. I also recall it not being wise to leave a round in a hot chamber as the polymer case got soft and stretched a little when you racked the bolt to remove it. It didn't stay in production very long. I think a friend still has a few hundred rounds somewhere in his garage
Still, I'm interested in that new polymer cased ammo. The white rounds (The manufacturer name escapes me right now)