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Solicitors-and how not to deal wit them?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Blaylocke, May 21, 2013.

  1. Blaylocke

    Blaylocke Lewis County Active Member

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    So I was perusing the forums because of a recent spate of solicitors, and the first thread, now three years old, caught my eye:

    http://www.northwestfirearms.com/off-topic/27704-solicitors-dealing-them.html

    Anyone had any amusing solicitor stories lately, or any advice to add on? I would like to begin with a story and ask for some advice. I always seem to seek advice from you fine people.

    ---

    My family takes a very no BS line on solicitors. We never really lived anywhere that they were an issue until two years ago. There are so many young Mormans, Jehovas Witnesses, steak and knive salesmen, that within two weeks we bought a no-soliciting sign. That seems to be the mating call of the solicitor though. So instead of politely declining their spiel or services, we have taken to a cursory glance at them to be certain they are not law enforcement or anybody not worth slamming the door on, and then slam the door on them. It's very rude, but it's also rude to interrupt dinner, or lunch, or television, or couch time, or bathroom time. Or really anything I want to do except answer the door.

    Well the winter has been cold, but it's now nearing it's end, and the solicitor folks have come again. Meaning the door slamming hand is strong. But we ran into an issue about a week ago. We open the door to the doorbell ringing and, it's a young fellow with a carharrt jacket on. He has pamphlets tucked away on his side, and a box under his arm. Quick size up. Didn't look like we needed whatever he was selling. The dog is barking, which pisses me off, dog is trying to get out to the man, which is pissing me off. Dog gets grabbed, door gets shut.

    I begin to walk away, and the doorbell goes off again. Oh goody. Now I get to test my vocal range by yelling at this solicitor :laugh:. Door opens. "I'm not a solicitor."

    "Oh really?"

    "I'm the owner. I'm here to install Co2 detectors."

    It's Sunday. It's 7pm. This 28 year old does not own these apartments. But my mind goes to "maybe he's trying to say he works FOR the owner." Well ok. Why is he here on NO notice, on Sunday night, to install Co2 detectors? We don't have any flame fired appliances. None. Zip.

    He shows me the detectors. He shows me some paperwork. It has the owners signature. I'm pissed that someone is here without any advanced notice (and I'm of the understanding I could have turned him away at this point, legally). But after finding out he is not a meth addict casing my house, and he does indeed have expensive co2 gauges (again, we have no propane, no fuel whatsoever coming into the house, so I still find this strange) I am very courteous and not in the least bit rude. He installs one on the ground floor and on the top, and goes on his way.

    ---

    Cut to thirty minutes ago. The "caretaker" (not the owners, just the gal who lets people in if they've been locked out, or what have you) knocks on my door.

    "We have to be neighbors but we don't have to be friends."

    Oh my. Did I rear end her car and not notice? Did I hit one of the critters she feeds? I've always had a friendly if not distance relationship to my apartment neighbor. What could I have done to have brought this on.

    "You slammed the door in my sons face last weekend."

    Oh my. Defense mechanism kicks in. Anger builds. "I thought he was a solicitor. I get bombarded by them."

    "You didn't even let him tell you what he was there for."

    "No, once you let them start in, they usually never stop."

    "So you slam the door in his face? You shouldn't do that."

    "Well I do and probably still will." (I couldn't help myself. This was so ridiculous. I almost felt like laughing. I still wonder if I've just been punked.)

    So it looks like the caretakers son got paid to do the caretakers job. Instead of giving me some notice, they sent him over (and I don't know this kid from some tweaker on the street, why would I give him the time of day?) I slammed the door in his face, and now the caretaker lady is pissy with me. I think things are going to be terribly awkward around here for some time.

    So here's the question: First, was I totally off base with my door slamming policy? It sounds pretty horrible out of context. But I literally get pulled away from something I'm doing a minimum of twice a weekend (and God knows how many times they come around that I'm not here) so I was just a little fed up. Second question: Should I contact the landlord and sort of, get this on the record? I don't know how much power the caretaker really wields, although I do know that she does the inspection when I leave, and I don't need her gouging my deposit or something if she has an axe to grind.

    Last question, although it doesn't really matter now, is WA one of the states that landlords have to give you 24 hours notice for things of this (detector installation) variety?
     
  2. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    I put on a blind man's glasses and cane if I know for sure it is a solicitor. Then I open the door and do my Clayton Bigsby routine and tell them to get the hell off my property. Not kidding, have done it.

    Also put up a big NO SOLICITING SIGN + this on the door:

    Capture.jpg

    No joke, it's there.

    Funny thing is I used to door knock people's homes to sell storm windows; better to give than to receive.

    Come to think of it, I believe they've got the hint. Haven't seen a solicitor in weeks.

    Capture.jpg
     
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  3. Blaylocke

    Blaylocke Lewis County Active Member

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    I love it Burt. Plus you had me at Clayton Bigsby.
     
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  4. tunus

    tunus PDX, United States Active Member

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    I usually say "Hello" and courteously give them 10 sec of my time, but I am new to the neighborhood and do not want to slam the door in the face of one of my new neighbors. Having said that, I am not very patient with solicitors trying to push their religion on me. If their church was that much better than mine, they would not need to go door to door to recruit people. I've done a door-to-door sales job when in college and always respected the "no solicitation" sign even though we were trained to ignore them because they have no legal meaning.
     
  5. Modeler

    Modeler Molalla, Oregon Soccer Fan

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    A few months ago I was out working in my driveway in the middle of the day. I saw the JW's pull into my neighbor's driveway and proceed to make the rounds among the 6 houses near me (I live in a rural area). As I worked on my boar trailer I became aware that my hoodie had ridden up any my carry gun was visible; I made a conscious decision to leave it that way.

    A few minutes later a guy comes walking into the driveway all smiles and friendly. He glances at my waist, the smile disappears, he stammers something about God, leaves a pamphlet and high tails it back to his car with his buddy and they're gone.

    Mission accomplished!
     
  6. Blaylocke

    Blaylocke Lewis County Active Member

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    See that's the thing. When the sign wasn't up, I would never slam the door. And I'm still not rude in the way that some people are. I don't yell, I don't curse. I open the door, see them, see a pamphlet being waved and step back. I'm not exactly breaking the hinges, but I am making it clear that I don't like my precious $2 "No solicitors" sign, hung at eye level on my door, being ignored. There is virtually no way to miss it. And the payment for people's ignorance of my pretty sign is a little door slammage. :p.

    Plus, showing up at 7pm on a sunday night was really, really annoying.
     
  7. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    Last election cycle I was volunteering for the Rob McKenna campaign and doing doorbelling, we were told the same thing as Tunus, that No soliciting signs didn't mean anything...

    except I don't like pissing people off so if the house was marked no soliciting I just marked "incorrect address" on the forum and moved along....

    as far as the caretaker/landlord installing equipment or inspecting... RCW 59.18.150 (6) states that

    Of course, if you allowed him to enter the home without objection to install the equipment you don't have much of a claim.
     
  8. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Years ago I shared an apt with 3 guys..


    one Saturday right after getting back from the grociery store where the 4 of us spent a HUGE amount of money on food. As I am making a great big sandwich. There is a knock on the door. One of the younger guys runs over and opens the door. And here stands this tiny little girl about 5' and maybe a 100lbs Very cute with very long brown hair holding this huge sample case. We are on the third floor!

    Right away Younger Room mate grabs her hand and pulls her into the apt shuts the door. then he ushers her over to the couch. She puts her sample case on the coffee table. I'm not sure she has had a chance to say a thing yet.

    Younger and less then desirable roommates end up tight on either side of her as she attempts to explain she sells jewlery. And wants to know if their are any women home? I bet she would have liked to have known that before being dragged into the apt!!!
    \
    So I can see where this is headed as Younger and Less Desirable start asking her personal questions..... and getting a little to close.

    I walk over shut her display case and yank her off the couch. March her to the door and tell her to never go into an apt full of guys again. Be a good way not to get back out till morning.

    Younger and Less then Desirable got all pissed off they were just going to have a little fun!!!

    I shortly found a reason to join the US Navy and get out of that place.


    When I was a kid the Witness's would come to my grandpas house to talk god with him. 4-6 hours later stuffed full of grandmas coffee cake and sanka. He would let them leave. Grandpa read the bible maybe 6 hours a day and spent the rest of his free time listening to preachers on the radio. He read the bible in every version from King James to the Greek and spent most of his time in the Old German. needless to say when the witnesses left they had been schooled on the bible like they never thought could happen.

    We used to make a joke that you could tell when a Witness went past grandpas house as they drove on the far side of the road with the tires on the gravel shoulder. LOL
     
  9. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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  10. Blaylocke

    Blaylocke Lewis County Active Member

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    Modeler: I've thought about strapping on the carry gun to answer the door, but am the sort to not want to advertise that. Mostly because my town just got hit by some "carpet cleaners" who used the practice as a way to case houses. If they saw a gun on me, they may thing 1-Oh I shouldn't rob that place, I might get shot or 2- I should rob that guys place, he probably has a lot of guns I could pawn.

    EMNofSeattle: Thank you for giving me the specific law. I'm not the litigious sort, so I wouldn't do anything anyway. I just want to be sure for future reference (and my lease says about the same thing) that I can turn someone away next time.

    Mark: I can't imagine going door to door at all these days. I doubly can't imagine it if the seller happens to be a woman. It's a two way street. Home owners have to be wary, and sellers never know what kind of person or people they're going to see.

    coctailer: Hahahahahaha. That is freaking hilarious. I WILL use that on the next telemarketer.
     
  11. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Contact the landlord tell him/her that you do NOT want the manger or the mangers son over with out notice.
     
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  12. xlsbob

    xlsbob coos county Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    We live in the country and get religious people and for some reason door to door meat salesmen. I just open the door, say "go away" and shut the door. Nobody ever knocks a second time, either from good judgement or the mini 14 by the door.
     
  13. Silver Hand

    Silver Hand Southern Oregon Coast Well-Known Member

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    I have a long driveway over 2/10s miles or so. Jehovah Witnesses were coming off my place after passing several various non welcoming signs on the way in. On my way back from town and in my driveway I blocked there rig, as there were three of them in the car and in no way could they pass. I said to them I did not know them from a thief the laughter started in the rear seat then the passenger. I demanded there attention indicating they were trespassing and again saying I do not know you 'OPEN YOUR TRUNK' I want a look inside. This they could not believe, I was verbally forceful and indicated there choice was to do so or I would call the Sheriff and press charges for trespassing. It worked so well they have never come back and if they forget I will press charges.

    Someone came down the drive the other day peddling there goods. I told him he just passed three signs none of which said welcome and never to come back or I would call the Sheriff. He put on a slightly forceful act and gave me some back talk about how he was just trying to make a living. I told him I did not give a shush what the hell he was doing and if he didn't get off the place now I was calling in the charge immediately .
    The driver of the vehicle was backing up to leave without him and actually came back to get him then proceeded to drive forward and back three times before finally leaving.
    I like people as long as we are in the right places and it is the right time.
    I love my family with that privacy and security come first.
    Silver Hand
     
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  14. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    uhh actually you were the one in the wrong, first off ORS 164.254 indicates trespass in the 2nd degree, a misdemeanor, after catching them you detained their movement and prevented from leaving the property thereby committing unlawful imprisonment, or kidnapping. You did not call the police, indicating you did not consider them a threat, and you gained access to their vehicle by unlawful means (coercing them under threat of force and charges) which constitutes trespass against you.

    Had the Jehova's witnesses called the cops YOU would be facing charges and not them.

    had the JW been armed they'd be justified in using deadly force to escape your kidnapping attempt.
     
  15. Silver Hand

    Silver Hand Southern Oregon Coast Well-Known Member

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    Stop by and let me find you behind my gate past the second warning. It is my property not yours, the bank or anyone else. I don't care one bit about what you think you can do, I will impose my right to place anyone trespassing on my property under citizens arrest. For your further understanding one case has already been prosecuted and myself, I am proud of my neighbors doing so. If they come back I will make the arrest.

    Just because you tell me you love your god does not give me cause me to let down my guard. I don't know you - I don't believe you - I don't trust you - I don't care about your motive. Don't BS me It does not work.

    Silver Hand
     
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  16. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    You are the one blowing smoke, it is not trespassing to enter the property to contact the owner for legitimate business until asked to leave. by blocking their car you refused to allow them to leave, then committed a crime by unlawfully entering their vehicle. I really don't care who you say was prosecuted, you're probably making it up. If you read your state's trespassing law, you'll realize the trespass only becomes applicable for premises if asked to leave or prviously asked to leave. you did not tell them to leave, you blocked them in, thus preventing them from leaving and presumably threatened them with a weapon while stating the police would be called if they didn't allow you to unlawfully enter their vehicle.

    stop that, or you're going to wind up in prison with your gun rights taken away and your property sold to pay puntitive settlements to the next guy. if they're only on your driveway ask them to leave, they're not breaking the law unless they enter for unlawful purposes or remain after being told to leave.

    and be careful who you decide to show guns to as well, if you end up drawing down on a process server you certainly will go to jail.

    If I came on to your land for lawful purposes, and you blocked me in and refused to allow me to leave without searching my car I would call the police before you did, and if you tried to prevent me I will use deadly force to escape your illegal confinement of me. the law does not allow you to kidnap people and set conditions for their release regardless of what the mall ninjas at your posse commitatus meetings tell you. The law allows you to demand someone leave your property, you're only authorized to arrest someone and deliver them to a public officer, not arrest them and demand you allow them to violate their rights.
     
  17. Silver Hand

    Silver Hand Southern Oregon Coast Well-Known Member

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    Like I said Let me find you on my posted property behind the gate.
    Silver Hand
     
  18. EMNofSeattle

    EMNofSeattle Kitsap Active Member

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    or you'll do what?

    search my car trunk? :bluelaugh:

    You sound exactly like the type of person who should not own firearms. you knew they were peaceful religious cultists, you can't articulate any justification for your actions. simple truth is, you're just a pencil weenie'd bully with a gun, and eventually a bigger bully, be it the state or "private sector" will put you in your place. don't warn me of anything, take this warning for yourself, because eventually you'll this crap on the wrong person and get arrested, or worse.

    and in case you didn't know there is numerous exceptions to simple trespass. cops can survey your land outside curtilage with no warrant. process servers serving you process and orders of the court can enter your property to serve you process. couriers delivering messages can enter to deliver your messages or items. somebody inside your gate is not justification.
     
  19. Silver Hand

    Silver Hand Southern Oregon Coast Well-Known Member

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    You sure assume a lot.
    If you read my post then your B.S. You will further your understand of me, and yourself. You have assumed way more than what was written.
    I don't give a darn about what your motive is or your peace full B.S. crap involving your own religious or other beliefs. Keep the hell out.
    You sound like one of those anti gun religious freaks to me and I could care less.
    Silver Hand
     
  20. BoonDocks36

    BoonDocks36 Oregon, in the boondocks Christian. Conservative. Male.

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    When my Father retired, he quickly came to understand our neighborhood was ripe with Door to Door Sales people. He would hear the knock, mutter under his breath, and answer the door with: "my time costs YOU Sixty $$$ an hour, Starting NOW, with NOW being about three times the volume of his regular speech level.

    If they even started to speak, he would say, "In Advance" and hold out his hand to collect !!!! Very effective !!!

    As per JW'S, a Single word, Written on the back of a business card, will remove them from your siewalk, forever.

    That word, plainly printed, is "DISFELLOWSHIPPED" They may not talk to a former (removed from the JW church) member !!! Tack it to your door frame, They WILL see it.

    The last, my neighbor Biker Friend really did... Being in intamacy with his wife, most of Saturday morning, he got tired of being disturbed, having to put on a bath robe, etc.

    So, one Saturday, the Bathrobe was left very open, and he simply said,"may I help you"???

    No more disturbances on Saturday Mornings !!!! :^)