Smokers need not apply

[mkwerx]

I'd have to ask. how does one with no economic or social means just move to a brand new area and start anew if they have 0 job prospects or skills or even demand in the area they are in? I hear this tossed around a ton like people can just teleport to a job and que the movie montage where in just 5mins they've completely 180'd their life back to middle class. Say we are talking about someone with no means of transportation, 0 in the bank, an average resume thats not even landing jobs at a gas station and education is high school diploma. Without begging for rides and relying upon someone else to get their foot in the door how do you go about reversing course?. (Bonus points) its the middle of the 2008 recession and nothing is hiring.

I do believe there is just waaaay to much corporate protectionism in the sense that they can get away with murder on the work force and always got a policy to protect them from failing. I get it jobs are important and bring money to the area they are in and within the state along with employing people to put money back into the economy which is good but really I think people give corporations way to much leeway with how they can operate and how their employees are neglected. Again not advocating for communism/socialist as those wish to make jobs even more scarce and pay higher for just one or two employees while everyone else gets cut because a job cannot afford head count.

One guy wants to empower corporations so much to become its own state
The other wants to empower the "people" which becomes its own entity and forces jobs to relocate

What I am asking for is where is the specific place in the US I could move where I wouldn't have to worry about lobbyists and socialists making life more complicated than it needs to be when life is already as rough as it needs to be with trial and error. To be clear not asking for free hand outs or the "ME ME ME" whiny millennial thing just asking a simple hypothetical question.

There are places, but you make a valid point - to relocate costs money most folks do not have. West Texas and North Dakota oil fields, or Alaska's oil fields are examples where one can pretty much show up to a jobsite with zero skills, but a positive attitude, a set of steel toe boots and a hard hat and walk onto a job as a green horn. Its long hours, dirty, manual labor, but if your open to learning they will teach you and you can move up from the lowest levels into getting trained on the skills necessary to make the big bucks. But for someone from say, LaGrande, Oregon to move to say, Odessa, Texas is going to cost at minimum a few hundred bucks in gas and food, and that's sleeping in the car and not getting a motel room. And they're still going to need work boots, a hard hat, gloves, and at least one set of work-appropriate clothes.

You can say where there is a will, there is a way, but that's just words and not everyone has the acuity to see how to accomplish it. Even in the height of the recession, there were places still begging to fill jobs, but there are a lot of people who lack the skill, lack the work ethic, or lack the desire to do the work. Even in the best economy ever, you have a class of people that is simply unemployable for any given reason.

 

[E4mafia]

There are places, but you make a valid point - to relocate costs money most folks do not have. West Texas and North Dakota oil fields, or Alaska's oil fields are examples where one can pretty much show up to a jobsite with zero skills, but a positive attitude, a set of steel toe boots and a hard hat and walk onto a job as a green horn. Its long hours, dirty, manual labor, but if your open to learning they will teach you and you can move up from the lowest levels into getting trained on the skills necessary to make the big bucks. But for someone from say, LaGrande, Oregon to move to say, Odessa, Texas is going to cost at minimum a few hundred bucks in gas and food, and that's sleeping in the car and not getting a motel room. And they're still going to need work boots, a hard hat, gloves, and at least one set of work-appropriate clothes.

You can say where there is a will, there is a way, but that's just words and not everyone has the acuity to see how to accomplish it. Even in the height of the recession, there were places still begging to fill jobs, but there are a lot of people who lack the skill, lack the work ethic, or lack the desire to do the work. Even in the best economy ever, you have a class of people that is simply unemployable for any given reason.

See I agree there is rigorous work like that but again as you've pointed out the cost associated with relocating is going to be a problem as is putting a valid address on a application so they can get it o payroll for tax reasons and I do not think a lot of people think about this before simply saying JUST MOVE BRO ITS THAT EZ!!. (if that were the case I don't think we would have homeless people nor people working those soul sucking jobs that make them want to swallow a 9mm aspirin each day) The problem I faced after getting out in 2010 was that nothing was hiring. Yes I took a few months off to relax after putting in 3 years and 1 combat tour to enjoy myself. I still kept an eye on the market and had some money in the bank but didn't really dedicate until about my 3rd month. Once I started applying and with at least 10 years solid working experience on my resume, never once was I ever fired from a job nor did I ever ghost a place, I simply for the life of me could not find a job anywhere for 2 years. Albeit I was stuck in a small town I still put in the leg work to get out and ask local biz on the daily along with applying online and going to interviews looking sharp. Still I got sidelined and couldn't figure out why so I took to constructive criticism and had some friends mock interview me to point out flaws ( even my brother who sits on panels at his job for hiring) learned a few things and brushed up. Still nothing came so I re tailored my resume to be more relevant to the jobs applying for and even utilized the unemployment office. Tried a few of their suggestions but still could not be hired. Long story short the first job I got after getting out was washing dishes at intel for $12 an hour because of someone who knew someone working at said job. Sucked but I put in the sweat and time until I could find something better as a stepping stone rule.

I kid you not I had a job tell me that I was over qualified and then under qualified.....wat?

Meanwhile the whole time enduring this I had to constantly hear it the millennial are lazy and entitled along with having poor work ethics, my folks weren't pleased because at the time I was living with them but eventually moved out with roommates once budgeting allowed. I relocated a couple towns and was back on my feet...up until about 2014 when the temp agency I had been employed with just suddenly pulled the plug on my contract, even though the job I was working with absolutely loved me and was wanting to pull me into it full time hire they just couldn't make the budget impressive so exploitation of a surplus work force came down and said sorry you no longer work for us. After that it was the tit for tat hustle of finding something to keep me floating until I could stepping stone again. By that time I had sworn off temp agencies as a ponzi scheme. Little later I was forced to move back home again and spent another year on the hunt. Bank was at 0 finally and I was forced to take on debt to live until I finally got the new good job I am at now. Which for being a lazy entitled millennial I must say walking to work for my first day to be 20mins early took me nearly 2 hours but I was on a mission. Soon I saved up money and some friends gave me a bike so for the better part of a year that was my means of back and forth, rain/snow/heat etc 5 days a week. I would really like to see some people try that.

sorry for the tl;dr as I said before I feel if you apply yourself good things will eventually pay out.

 

[gmerkt]

Most of them are f-bombing pigs

I won't go so far as to say that, but back when more people smoked and every American car had several large ashtrays ... leaving those receptacles full of smelly butts wasn't exactly a tidy habit.

butts as real litter,

Off topic, but: I consider political signs along the road during the election cycle the moral equivalent of cigarette butts.

A cigar or a pipe smells like tobacco

My dad was a working man cigar smoker. Not in the style of modern day "cigar afficiados." Kinda in the style of Benny, the guy who ran the pool hall. I suppose wealthy people in those days smoked cigars, the hand-rolled things that afficiados today are gaga over. Working people smoked the machine-rolled things like my dad did, Roi-Tan and later Dutch Masters. To this day, when I smell a cigar it doesn't bother me but reminds me of my dad. There was some difference in aroma between a Dutch Masters and a cheaper King Edward. KE were good enough for guys like one of my grandfathers who used them only for chewing.

A couple of my Iowan family members smoked cigarettes. On the farm, they rolled their own. When they moved to town, they discovered Lucky Strikes. And much shorter work days.

The whole idea that a 4-year degree is a necessity is a fraud perpetrated by Academia.

A college professor once told me, "Higher education is designed to keep people out of the work force." In any case, these days too many attend who either have no business being there or went only because of expectations of other people. And, the value of it has been highly devalued over time. You know the system has gone wrong when police departments want applicants with degrees. These days, to get a decent entry level job, a 4 year degree is required. For management positions, a masters is desired. Next thing you know, if you call for the manager at McDonalds, Doctor So-and-so will come forth.

This is a wonderful time to be young.

That is so because often young people don't look farther down the road of life to see what's coming.

like in the car when Wifey is smoking, even with windows open.

Yes, this can be an issue. One form of "mixed marriage," where one smokes and the other does not.

I like chimney smoke,

Me too. Sometimes, I'll throw some cedar splits into the wood stove, then go outside to smell the burn. I'll probably die 10 minutes earlier in life for having done so but it will have been worth it. Maybe this is why McMenamin's burns juniper in their outdoor fire pits.

 

[E4mafia]

A college professor once told me, "Higher education is designed to keep people out of the work force." In any case, these days too many attend who either have no business being there or went only because of expectations of other people. And, the value of it has been highly devalued over time. You know the system has gone wrong when police departments want applicants with degrees. These days, to get a decent entry level job, a 4 year degree is required. For management positions, a masters is desired. Next thing you know, if you call for the manager at McDonalds, Doctor So-and-so will come forth

Dude seriously this. When I was applying there was tons of entry level to mid range jobs requiring a post degree to do the simplest of tasks on top of requiring a degree and years of experience for a process that hasn't even been around 3 years max for said application. I scratched my head a lot over this as I smoked at least a pack a day back then. Always mystified me how once before I had worked at Intel as a green badge in their fabs in a specific area for a year and then later at another semi-conductor for close to a year I couldn't qualify for something I knew exactly their process for and had hands on training/ on the job training for.

The ideal candidate shall have:
5 years exp related or equivalent training/hands on exp
at least a AS or preferred Bachelors
Is good with multitasking
Can work in a team environment
Can work with little supervision
Detail orientated

Pay is: $12 an hour

Again made me open the next pack of smokes.

 

[gmerkt]

None of it matters anymore,

I met my wife and never finished my degree. She was supportive but I wanted to get something full-time but "temporary" to get our launch on marriage going. My temporary embarrassment as a federal employee turned out to be a career. Then when I retired, someone suggested, "Why not go back to school and finish your degree?" That was an absurdity; it was no longer necessary for the intended purpose of enhancing employment opportunities. Which at least in my case was my original goal. But I'm an on-going student of my own curriculum, learning never stops.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

But I'm an on-going student of my own curriculum, learning never stops.

This is a very important bit of wisdom....
Andy

 

[Joe13]

Cigarette smokers are generally lower class and lower wage workers.

Limiting their employment options seems silly to me personally and I probably will avoid U-Haul if I need a rental in the future.

I don't see this as any different then stopping the sales of guns at a business. It's a feel good policy at best...


When was the last time anyone didn't rent a truck or trailer to move because the person on the other end of the counter smelled bad?

 

[Pete F]

Cigarette smokers are generally lower class and lower wage workers.

Limiting their employment options seems silly to me personally and I probably will avoid U-Haul if I need a rental in the future.

I don't see this as any different then stopping the sales of guns at a business. It's a feel good policy at best...


When was the last time anyone didn't rent a truck or trailer to move because the person on the other end of the counter smelled bad?

Yeh, my 6 figure job as a smoker is more frequent than you think,. I smoked with a lot of employees in my situation. I will admit that the lower class, as you put it, smokes more in the open where everyone can see because they probably don't care. If they quit smoking, it would only improve their health, not necessarily their situation. I am not saying that you are wrong, just not willing to classify people. The rest of your post is right on.

My first real job was $4.25 an hour in a technical job civil service in the Bremerton Naval Shipyard. I kept working at improving, changing jobs and finally ended up with a BS when I was in my 40's. and the above mentioned job. The degree was necessary only for the job description and new career when they shut down Trojan Nuclear Plant where I was a Health Physics Engineer. - changed to Environmental Science with a minor in chemistry.

 

[DLS]

One of the times I felt most honored in life was when I was invited to a naturalization ceremony for a young man from El Salvador. I met him from a referral, he needed assistance buying a house.

Five years earlier, when he arrived in the US he spoke no English, had some paper Salvadorian script and a single US $20 bill and his duffel bag which contained absolutely everything he owned. He had a third grade education and no skills.

So he went to work taking 2 full-time and one part-time minimum wage jobs. He bounced between a half-dozen Salvadorian families sleeping in the garage or on the couch for the first two years when he finally went in with 3 other guys like him and shared an apartment.

At the five year mark, he owned a car free and clear, spoke very good English and had enough money saved for the down payment on a small condo-conversion in Portland. It was a bit of a struggle to get his loan through underwriting but we got it done … he now owned a piece of America and was so proud.

Two years after that, when he became a citizen he invited me and many others that had been a part of his journey. As I stated earlier … I don't really thing I have felt more honored by any other thing in my life.

By the way … he is not alone. Immigrants do this over and over and over. This is just the most profound story I can tell from personal experience, but it is not the only one. I have a couple dozen others … wanna hear them?

Anyway … I have a hard time when I hear that you can't make it here anymore, that there are no jobs available, that the costs of living are too high, and on and on and on.

Not only is America the land of opportunity … it's never provided a greater opportunity than today. There is a reason that thousands and thousands of people routinely risk EVERYTHING to get here.

 

[CountryGent]

That is a wonderful story @DLS. Thank you for helping the young fellow.

 

[DLS]

I was happy to do it. Because the loan was so small the fees as a percentage of the loan were a huge burden. I was able to get the inspector, underwriter, loan officer, escrow / title company and the property insurance broker to all donate their commissions and fees. I also got the seller to kick in a bit by paying for both title insurance policies. He was really tight but probably could have done the deal without this, but the story was so compelling that I simply asked and everybody said yes. It made underwriting much easier.

Within a year he paid everybody back.

 

[Pete F]

I was happy to do it. Because the loan was so small the fees as a percentage of the loan were a huge burden. I was able to get the inspector, underwriter, loan officer, escrow / title company and the property insurance broker to all donate their commissions and fees. I also got the seller to kick in a bit by paying for both title insurance policies. He was really tight but probably could have done the deal without this, but the story was so compelling that I simply asked and everybody said yes. It made underwriting much easier.

Within a year he paid everybody back.

Way off the topic, but a great story. Maybe we need a new thread

 

[csa_ap_hill]

I care less and Repubs are the worst on these issues because they mostly don't smoke and are fascist as much as Dems are Communists.
But I care less if you support this of any company then you are a Hypocrite.
The sooner people stop playing this game of who can out control the other, the better off we will be.
U-Haul or no company has the right to deny anyone for employment if they smoke or not Nuff said!
Pure 666 in my book.

 

[CoastRange57]

By the way … he is not alone. Immigrants do this over and over and over. This is just the most profound story I can tell from personal experience, but it is not the only one. I have a couple dozen others … wanna hear them?

Anyway … I have a hard time when I hear that you can't make it here anymore, that there are no jobs available, that the costs of living are too high, and on and on and on.

Not only is America the land of opportunity … it's never provided a greater opportunity than today. There is a reason that thousands and thousands of people routinely risk EVERYTHING to get here.

This here. I think this answers a previous post about how do you advance when you are so far down. I too was honored several times to be at naturalization ceremonies for people that I helped become citizens. These individuals were valued employees at companies I managed.

When my contracting business was at a cross roads many years ago, a family showed up in my yard one day looking for work. The matriarch was a US citizen originally from Guatamala, and had her husband and several relatives with her. She assured me they would work hard and be there every day. They were and were a huge part of our companies success. They applied for citizenship and we helped with the paperwork and attorneys.

When we got into prevailing wage work, they were beyond belief at the money they were making. Two became job foremen for us for years, had their own pickups and company cards and ran jobs on their own 200 miles away. One is a manager at a door manufacturer now and one has his own construction business. Both own nice homes. It takes time, 12 years for these people. I still talk to them several times a year.

 

[CoastRange57]

But I'm an on-going student of my own curriculum, learning never stops.

Exactly. No longer needed for job income, but for personal fulfillment. Even at age 62, I will over the next couple of years:

1. Finish my pilots license and get my instrument rating.
2. Get my Extra ticket ham license and set up my HF rig.
3. Become a good fly fisherman.
4. Establish an internet based passive income business taking less than 10 hours per week.
5. Continue to look for investment opportunities that will make my IRAs last longer.
6. Utilize the latest photograph technology and drone technology to develop content.

Could I have made more with a 4 year degree ? Possibly, but after adapting to my lack of a formal 4 year degree with experience in my own company allowed me a decent lifestyle and retirement. Outside of my wife who had a general studies degree and my AA, nobody in our construction business had a degree and everybody made 100K or close to it every year.

 

[mkwerx]

I care less and Repubs are the worst on these issues because they mostly don't smoke and are fascist as much as Dems are Communists.
But I care less if you support this of any company then you are a Hypocrite.
The sooner people stop playing this game of who can out control the other, the better off we will be.
U-Haul or no company has the right to deny anyone for employment if they smoke or not Nuff said!
Pure 666 in my book.

Any private company should be able to hire or not hire anyone, for any reason. Protected classes are bull$hit - if a company doesn't want to hire you if you're gay, black, orange, straight, vegan, carnivore, or if you just look funny, smell funny, or have the name George - that should be their prerogative. The marketplace should be left to decide the fate of a business, not the government. No private entity should be forced to contract with another for any reason. If a company has a job, and there are conditions to that job for obtaining it - it's up to the applicant to decide if those conditions are worth it or not. And if you violate the conditions, you should be willing to accept the consequences.

You don't have a right to have a job. As an employer, I don't have to hire someone just because they apply and I have a job available.

 

[BrentN]

I care less and Repubs are the worst on these issues because they mostly don't smoke and are fascist as much as Dems are Communists.
But I care less if you support this of any company then you are a Hypocrite.
The sooner people stop playing this game of who can out control the other, the better off we will be.
U-Haul or no company has the right to deny anyone for employment if they smoke or not Nuff said!
Pure 666 in my book.

Well I'm sort of an R, have smoked plenty in my life (done with all that) and am not a fascist. U-Haul has the legal right to not hire smokers. This is saving them a pile of money in health care costs, that's all this amounts to. I don't care for this policy either, yet if I were in a position to make this call, I would do the same, it would be a no-brainer. For someone that does not like this policy, simply do not give them your business.

 

[BrentN]

Well I'm sort of an R, have smoked plenty in my life (done with all that) and am not a fascist. U-Haul has the legal right to not hire smokers. This is saving them a pile of money in health care costs, that's all this amounts to. I don't care for this policy either, yet if I were in a position to make this call, I would do the same, it would be a no-brainer. For someone that does not like this policy, simply do not give them your business.

There is also the real possibilty that this is saving the other non-smoking U-Haul employees money in lower health care premiums; U-Haul's insurer may have offered them lower premium costs if they enacted such a policy. See, in my case, my employer is transparent and just lets the insurer tack on an extra $50 per month to premiums if you use tobacco.

 

[BrentN]

And if you think this is fun, wait until everybody's favorite hallucinogenic is legalized! One quick blood test (or soon breath test) could check you for THC, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, cholesterol, sugar, etc, etc, all good.numbers to adjust your health insurance premiums with.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Any private company should be able to hire or not hire anyone, for any reason. Protected classes are bull$hit - if a company doesn't want to hire you if you're gay, black, orange, straight, vegan, carnivore, or if you just look funny, smell funny, or have the name George - that should be their prerogative. The marketplace should be left to decide the fate of a business, not the government. No private entity should be forced to contract with another for any reason. If a company has a job, and there are conditions to that job for obtaining it - it's up to the applicant to decide if those conditions are worth it or not. And if you violate the conditions, you should be willing to accept the consequences.

You don't have a right to have a job. As an employer, I don't have to hire someone just because they apply and I have a job available.

Will this then open up smoking as a protected class then? If so I may change my opinion then, because If I can sue you for not hiring me because
I smoke then yay. 100 or so years ago I may have agreed but not in today's world where opinions and politics seem to play out in everyday life I don't nor can't.
I do hope but doubt it you do see where all this is going right? and not for the better either.