Smokers need not apply

[mkwerx]

Will this then open up smoking as a protected class then? If so I may change my opinion then, because If I can sue you for not hiring me because
I smoke then yay. 100 or so years ago I may have agreed but not in today's world where opinions and politics seem to play out in everyday life I don't nor can't.
I do hope but doubt it you do see where all this is going right? and not for the better either.

We need zero protected classes when it comes to private enterprise and private contracts.

What you do on your own time is your business, but if your off-time activities create a negative impact for me or my business or my customers, I'm under no obligation to indulge your off-hours activities and you're under no obligation to work for me if you cannot abide the terms and conditions of employment. It doesn't matter if its guns, tobacco, booze, weed, hard drugs, skydiving, seal clubbing, or riding your bicycle through downtown portland in nothing but your birthday suit. You don't have a right to someone else's time, money, service or product. All employment is voluntary and should be subject to either party terminating that relationship at anytime, for any reason.

If I as a business owner wish to implement unreasonable, outlandish requirements off the clock - that should be my decision. If you as the employee or potential employee want the job, and you're willing to abide them, that's your decision. If you are unwilling to abide or humor the outlandish requests, again, that's your right and you're free to pursue employment elsewhere. You're also free to start a competing business and craft the policies you see fit.

Protected classes come about because people think they are more special than everyone else, or they're unwilling to deal with adversity. They think because they're old, gay, boy, girl, asian, black, white, orange, purple, crippled, slow, just plain stupid, or gifted that they deserve special treatment, they should get picked first, and that I'm somehow obliged to deal with them because they exist and demand it - its nonsense, but they got law makers to put that nonsense into law because lawmakers are generally corrupt people that seek to impose will and consolidate power and money - so you dangle a dollar in front of them, take them to a nice dinner, and help get them re-elected and they'll sell their services just as quick as Jiffy Lube. Its a toss up who provides worse service too.

Discrimination is not necessarily a bad thing. When it was allowed - you could see someone's character more clearly. If you agreed with them, you'd do business with them. If you disagreed with them, you didn't. Now the bigots, the azzholes, and the corrupt hide behind law and company policy and you don't get to see their true character as clearly, at least when it comes to those special classes. We can see it clearly when we see a No Guns or No Weapons sign on a business' door. We can see it when the face-tattoo'd, septum-pierced, black lipstick wearing, Che Guevera-T Shirt clad tranny hands us a cup of burned, overpriced coffee while droning on about how capitalism is evil. But they hide their true nature when dealing with those special classes - the racists change their tactics, the Jew haters change their tactics, the commies change their tactics. They're just more insidious now.

I don't have any problem with a business that wants to impose rules. We can chose to ignore them, we can chose not to work for them or do business with them, or we can choose to play ball. America is still a free country, for now. With every law politician pass, we get a little less-free. With every administrative rule passed, we get a little less free.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Well I'm sort of an R, have smoked plenty in my life (done with all that) and am not a fascist. U-Haul has the legal right to not hire smokers. This is saving them a pile of money in health care costs, that's all this amounts to. I don't care for this policy either, yet if I were in a position to make this call, I would do the same, it would be a no-brainer. For someone that does not like this policy, simply do not give them your business.

NO! they don't. smoking is not against the law YET! They have no right to punish someone for some habit they do.
Nothing worse then as they say than a smoker but an ex-smoker then... for if you still smoked I'm sure you'd see this as a threat as much as I do. and More about control.
I see this a more of a do as we say resistance is futile Borg type of issue rather than its ok were ok issue rather than just simply saving some money.
To those who believe or care my 666 ish comment was by design too.

 

[bbbass]

I'd have to ask. how does one with no economic or social means just move to a brand new area and start anew if they have 0 job prospects or skills or even demand in the area they are in? I hear this tossed around a ton like people can just teleport to a job and que the movie montage where in just 5mins they've completely 180'd their life back to middle class. Say we are talking about someone with no means of transportation, 0 in the bank, an average resume thats not even landing jobs at a gas station and education is high school diploma. Without begging for rides and relying upon someone else to get their foot in the door how do you go about reversing course?. (Bonus points) its the middle of the 2008 recession and nothing is hiring.

Is this a trick question? Something imagined up in a fashion intended to elucidate failure?

Real or hypothetical??? In either case, more detail is needed in order to craft a coherent answer.

 

[bbbass]

There are places, but you make a valid point - to relocate costs money most folks do not have. West Texas and North Dakota oil fields, or Alaska's oil fields are examples where one can pretty much show up to a jobsite with zero skills, but a positive attitude, a set of steel toe boots and a hard hat and walk onto a job as a green horn. Its long hours, dirty, manual labor, but if your open to learning they will teach you and you can move up from the lowest levels into getting trained on the skills necessary to make the big bucks. But for someone from say, LaGrande, Oregon to move to say, Odessa, Texas is going to cost at minimum a few hundred bucks in gas and food, and that's sleeping in the car and not getting a motel room. And they're still going to need work boots, a hard hat, gloves, and at least one set of work-appropriate clothes.

You can say where there is a will, there is a way, but that's just words and not everyone has the acuity to see how to accomplish it. Even in the height of the recession, there were places still begging to fill jobs, but there are a lot of people who lack the skill, lack the work ethic, or lack the desire to do the work. Even in the best economy ever, you have a class of people that is simply unemployable for any given reason.

Since the example used was La Grande to Texas, I will answer this later... beddy bye!!

We can think of 10million reasons why we can't do something, when all we need to do is find one way that we can...

 

[csa_ap_hill]

We need zero protected classes when it comes to private enterprise and private contracts.

What you do on your own time is your business, but if your off-time activities create a negative impact for me or my business or my customers, I'm under no obligation to indulge your off-hours activities and you're under no obligation to work for me if you cannot abide the terms and conditions of employment. It doesn't matter if its guns, tobacco, booze, weed, hard drugs, skydiving, seal clubbing, or riding your bicycle through downtown portland in nothing but your birthday suit. You don't have a right to someone else's time, money, service or product. All employment is voluntary and should be subject to either party terminating that relationship at anytime, for any reason.

If I as a business owner wish to implement unreasonable, outlandish requirements off the clock - that should be my decision. If you as the employee or potential employee want the job, and you're willing to abide them, that's your decision. If you are unwilling to abide or humor the outlandish requests, again, that's your right and you're free to pursue employment elsewhere. You're also free to start a competing business and craft the policies you see fit.

Protected classes come about because people think they are more special than everyone else, or they're unwilling to deal with adversity. They think because they're old, gay, boy, girl, asian, black, white, orange, purple, crippled, slow, just plain stupid, or gifted that they deserve special treatment, they should get picked first, and that I'm somehow obliged to deal with them because they exist and demand it - its nonsense, but they got law makers to put that nonsense into law because lawmakers are generally corrupt people that seek to impose will and consolidate power and money - so you dangle a dollar in front of them, take them to a nice dinner, and help get them re-elected and they'll sell their services just as quick as Jiffy Lube. Its a toss up who provides worse service too.

Discrimination is not necessarily a bad thing. When it was allowed - you could see someone's character more clearly. If you agreed with them, you'd do business with them. If you disagreed with them, you didn't. Now the bigots, the azzholes, and the corrupt hide behind law and company policy and you don't get to see their true character as clearly, at least when it comes to those special classes. We can see it clearly when we see a No Guns or No Weapons sign on a business' door. We can see it when the face-tattoo'd, septum-pierced, black lipstick wearing, Che Guevera-T Shirt clad tranny hands us a cup of burned, overpriced coffee while droning on about how capitalism is evil. But they hide their true nature when dealing with those special classes - the racists change their tactics, the Jew haters change their tactics, the commies change their tactics. They're just more insidious now.

I don't have any problem with a business that wants to impose rules. We can chose to ignore them, we can chose not to work for them or do business with them, or we can choose to play ball. America is still a free country, for now. With every law politician pass, we get a little less-free. With every administrative rule passed, we get a little less free.

Strike three and you out lol you totally missed it predictable too.
you don't see that doing this makes us less free, do you?
and no your wrong people used politics back in the day to not serve or hire black people which made them less free.
you tote freedom while speaking against freedom. Plus you're umbrellaing all other issues into one. Not being able to discriminate against a person because they're black doesn't make you less free, it allows them to gain some of the freedoms you as a white person holds now. Or the other persons you mentioned as well. How is a gay person is to get and hold a job if you have the right to not hire them based solely on them being gay? but yet you bubblegum and moan just how many people don't work and or take your taxes? You only bubblegumed about being made to do so.
You mentioned implementing unreasonable requirements off the clock but how does someone smoking on or off the clock hurt your or someone's business?
Do you say you believe in then Lamestream media on the countless news stories they show to say that it does?
Or you speak on how were free to choose etc but fail to see that most people don't have that luxury they only want or need a job.
If you're free to choose based on someone smoking or not, then were to be less free than more and if you don't see that then...
Point is this is about control more of it as I said bellow this to me a Borg issue IE do as we say or die basically.
And you may be able to come back with its a free country etc... or just how big of a country this is or something else along that line but no we're not not like we should be and no were not that big. Especially if it becomes mainstream which it will; people won't be able to find a job when they want, unless they do as you say...
While what I see how this playing out is purely speculation But these typed of things private or Govt entities won't give or leave us freer they will make leave us less.
Is this then... you peoples answer to legal weed? then smoke weed cant work smoke cigarettes the same??? Politics more freaking politics playing with people's freedoms and liberties, all because what... you can't see what you do is wrong? and or change so flank out more to the outlying areas?
I pay or others pay because you're too damned stubborn then?
Both you people Dems and Repubs again have destroyed this Country.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Strike three and you out lol you totally missed it predictable too.
you don't see that doing this makes us less free, do you?
and no your wrong people used politics back in the day to not serve or hire black people which made them less free.
you tote freedom while speaking against freedom. Plus you're umbrellaing all other issues into one. Not being able to discriminate against a person because they're black doesn't make you less free, it allows them to gain some of the freedoms you as a white person holds now. Or the other persons you mentioned as well. How is a gay person is to get and hold a job if you have the right to not hire them based solely on them being gay? but yet you bubblegum and moan just how many people don't work and or take your taxes? You only bubblegumed about being made to do so.
You mentioned implementing unreasonable requirements off the clock but how does someone smoking on or off the clock hurt your or someone's business?
Do you say you believe in then Lamestream media on the countless news stories they show to say that it does?
Or you speak on how were free to choose etc but fail to see that most people don't have that luxury they only want or need a job.
If you're free to choose based on someone smoking or not, then were to be less free than more and if you don't see that then...
Point is this is about control more of it as I said bellow this to me a Borg issue IE do as we say or die basically.
And you may be able to come back with its a free country etc... or just how big of a country this is or something else along that line but no we're not not like we should be and no were not that big. Especially if it becomes mainstream which it will; people won't be able to find a job when they want, unless they do as you say...
While what I see how this playing out is purely speculation But these typed of things private or Govt entities won't give or leave us freer they will make leave us less.
Is this then... you peoples answer to legal weed? then smoke weed cant work smoke cigarettes the same??? Politics more freaking politics playing with people's freedoms and liberties, all because what... you can't see what you do is wrong? and or change so flank out more to the outlying areas?
I pay or others pay because you're too damned stubborn then?
Both you people Dems and Repubs again have destroyed this Country.

What I meant if you didn't or couldn't see flank out to the outlying areas is a military phrase as in attacking the flanks of your enemy. Which makes it as I've said more than once unless people can stop trying to control one aspect of each other were doomed to controlling all other things we like or don't like. and those of us who care less were the ones who usually pay. You don't or won't because you don't smoke so it doesn't affect you. If you did smoke unless your like the sick too nice smokers I have met you'd probably care.
Much like the saying that when they came for the ---- I don't care for I didnt or wasnt
and when they came for the ----- same didn't care nor spoke up
but when they came for me no one was left...

 

[mkwerx]

Strike three and you out lol you totally missed it predictable too.
you don't see that doing this makes us less free, do you?
and no your wrong people used politics back in the day to not serve or hire black people which made them less free.
you tote freedom while speaking against freedom. Plus you're umbrellaing all other issues into one. Not being able to discriminate against a person because they're black doesn't make you less free, it allows them to gain some of the freedoms you as a white person holds now. Or the other persons you mentioned as well. How is a gay person is to get and hold a job if you have the right to not hire them based solely on them being gay? but yet you bubblegum and moan just how many people don't work and or take your taxes? You only bubblegumed about being made to do so.
You mentioned implementing unreasonable requirements off the clock but how does someone smoking on or off the clock hurt your or someone's business?
Do you say you believe in then Lamestream media on the countless news stories they show to say that it does?
Or you speak on how were free to choose etc but fail to see that most people don't have that luxury they only want or need a job.
If you're free to choose based on someone smoking or not, then were to be less free than more and if you don't see that then...
Point is this is about control more of it as I said bellow this to me a Borg issue IE do as we say or die basically.
And you may be able to come back with its a free country etc... or just how big of a country this is or something else along that line but no we're not not like we should be and no were not that big. Especially if it becomes mainstream which it will; people won't be able to find a job when they want, unless they do as you say...
While what I see how this playing out is purely speculation But these typed of things private or Govt entities won't give or leave us freer they will make leave us less.
Is this then... you peoples answer to legal weed? then smoke weed cant work smoke cigarettes the same??? Politics more freaking politics playing with people's freedoms and liberties, all because what... you can't see what you do is wrong? and or change so flank out more to the outlying areas?
I pay or others pay because you're too damned stubborn then?
Both you people Dems and Repubs again have destroyed this Country.

You want to impose your will to make someone hire you just because you exist? Why, exactly, should I be forced to hire someone I don't want to regardless of reason? If I'm a Christian baker, say, why should I have to hire a Muslim, or a flamboyant gay person if either is offensive to me? Same if I'm a Muslim Halal market owner - should I be forced to hire a Jew? You are not entitled to employment, period.

If you as a smoker can't see that your habit effects others, even if you don't do it on the clock, that's your narrow vision. As a business owner, or as a coworker paying into an insurance policy, or having to share equipment or space with a smoker - why should I pay more, or have to tolerate the filthy conditions some smokers bring with them to indulge your habit? In this instance, you're pushing the special "right" to smoke, at the expense - literally - of others. That makes them less free, so you can have the "right" to smoke.

Its the same with alcohol - if you go home and get blasted every night it can indeed cause my insurance premiums to increase, both as an employer and as someone buying a health insurance policy. If you come to work hung over or otherwise under the influence, your decision and actions off the clock very well adversely effects others. Weed is no different.

My father is a heavy equipment operator. He primarily operates cranes and large fork lifts. There's times he's not allowed to partake in any mind altering substances because of his employment - as he is subject to being called in. Its a condition of his employment that he agreed to and abides by because the pay is worth it. If he didn't like it, he'd find another place to work that didn't have that condition.

Even in unskilled or low skilled labor you have a choice of employers. There are plenty of employers that simply don't give a damn if you smoke, drink, or do drugs. They dont' drug test. They don't care. There are skilled labor services again that don't care, or care very little. Its your responsibility as the consumer or the employee to find the place that suits you - its not the responsibility of any business to bend to the desires of the employees.

Admit it that you simply want drug addicts to be a special class and thus given special consideration and "rights" over others, damn the costs, damn the consequences. I'm libertarian in that I don't really give a damn what someone wants to do on their own time. They can do hard drugs, they can drink themselves to death, they can obtain sexual gratification through any consensual means with any adult or inanimate object they wish, they can smoke, they can build unregistered machine guns and silencers in their garage - so long as I don't have to pay for it, I don't have to put up with the side effects, and I don't have to give you special consideration for it. It is where you demand that I pay for your problems, your addiction, or I have to tolerate the negative effects to my business or other employees where I draw the line.

This issue is certainly a control issue - but it sounds like the smokers are the ones that want the control. They don't want to be subject to the consequences of their habit. They want special rights. They want that entitlement without the responsibility. Should gun owners get their own special carve out? I own a Glock so you have to hire me? You can't fire me because I'm a gun owner? I shouldn't get charged a higher insurance rate simply because I own a firearm? Again it all comes back to personal responsibility, and what or who you are willing to do business with. It doesn't make me more free to mandate that I must hire XYZ person, or cater to ABC's addictions or problems.

The government should stay out of dictating the policies of private businesses or contracts among individuals. They should not discriminate in interactions between private individuals and government, but private businesses and individuals should have the freedom to engage with whoever, and however they want. The market will dictate failures and successes at that point. Even in the height of racial discrimination in the US - there were employers who would hire blacks and asians. Before the "gay rights" agenda started getting codified, employers hired and promoted openly gay people. There were black and gay business owners. There were businesses that catered to them. If we repealed every bit of employer-employee laws on the books today and businesses could impose whatever conditions they wanted - most would stay status quo because most business owners want to maximize their profits, and minimize their expenses.

Freedom is not always bright and pretty - sometimes its ugly. Sometimes it is offensive. Sometimes it means you get your personal feelings hurt. Imposing your will on another involuntarily - be it thru legislative actions or strong arm tactics is diminishing their freedom, not increasing it. Every time a special class is given special rights, that is taking away freedom from a larger group to give a little more to that one small bunch of special people. That is a net loss of freedom and a net loss to the economy.

I should no more have to pay for or tolerate your dirty habits than you should mine.

 

[E4mafia]

Is this a trick question? Something imagined up in a fashion intended to elucidate failure?

Real or hypothetical??? In either case, more detail is needed in order to craft a coherent answer.

Just asking because it seems everyone has the answers needed to solve these problems in particular is all. Basically I am asking the very same when people just say "relocate for work" simply because they cannot afford where they are or have been priced out.

Never heard a response from anyone or a defined method of doing so just relocate, every time. Normally I like to have plans for things if it going to involve uprooting, same most people do before moving anywhere usually.

 

[mkwerx]

Just asking because it seems everyone has the answers needed to solve these problems in particular is all. Basically I am asking the very same when people just say "relocate for work" simply because they cannot afford where they are or have been priced out.

Never heard a response from anyone or a defined method of doing so just relocate, every time. Normally I like to have plans for things if it going to involve uprooting, same most people do before moving anywhere usually.

In times past before there were government provided safety nets - people who lost their jobs / homes moved to where there was work, or where they were told there would be work. They sold what they had to, borrowed what they could, and they took their families with them if/when they could. They got as far as they could go, or they got to their destination and made it work.

The same can be done today. An example I gave - say going to one of the oil fields - it would take a few hundred bucks in food & fuel, maybe some basic work appropriate clothes - but those places have work. And you don't need a local address to get hired on. Use a friends address, or family members. Whatever is on your ID card. Most of those guys are from somewhere else. Get your ID changed over when you decide you're going to stay, and update your address on file with the company as needed.

For those who may have some applicable skills - they may be able to hire on with a company and get some or all of the relocation expenses taken care of too.

For the young and able bodied - military service is always an option if you can't find a job anywhere else, though admittedly a lot of those who may be chronically unemployable would not be a good fit for military service, though most would probably benefit greatly from it if they survived it.

I think in today's era - there are a lot of ways one could come up with money to move, or even wind up in business for themselves. e-begging ala GoFundMe is rather popular. I'd rather donate to some guy looking to move to get a job, than just to pay his rent this month.

Craigslist has free stuff listings - and you could collect some of it and try to flip it. If you're only trying to scrape together a few hundred bucks for gas & food it could be done in a week or two of effort. Maybe a day if you get the right stuff and can craft the right ad.

Or maybe you take a low level job beneath your skill level and worth because its a job, and it is better than not having a job, or you take a couple of those jobs and you do what you need to to survive. I've had a few times - some recently even - where I was working two jobs. It sucks but if its what you have to do, its what you have to do.

You could borrow funds from friends / family?

Moving is hard. Its expensive. I get the idea of feeling stuck - felt it myself before. I agree with bbbass - where there is a will, there is a way. There's always a way, sometimes it just takes us a bit to see the way. And sometimes we need help seeing the way.

 

[E4mafia]

That's probably the best answer I've heard and I do agree. As stated before I simply ask because I've heard so many people toss it around like its so easy without any complications. Mostly I think the people who use it and don't give a resolution method of getting from point A to B are simply parroting a talking point they've heard from an eceleb or mub daddy said.

Ya it certainly ain't fun livin in the skids with 0 income and none in the bank on top of no assets and no food. I told my current job when they asked me what my passion was for wanting to work, it's taken from something I had heard before but cannot recall where, I said: I am passionate about not being homeless and starving on the streets.

My manager got a kick out of it and we went thru. 5 years later here I am happy as can be with my own slice of pie I've worked for. But still like everyone there's always that worry about things. Some companies are great at treating their employees while others could use some work but that's up to them to decide. The only thing I ask is that a company be good to it's people much like how the state and fed should be. But then we all woke up.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

You want to impose your will to make someone hire you just because you exist? Why, exactly, should I be forced to hire someone I don't want to regardless of reason? If I'm a Christian baker, say, why should I have to hire a Muslim, or a flamboyant gay person if either is offensive to me? Same if I'm a Muslim Halal market owner - should I be forced to hire a Jew? You are not entitled to employment, period.

If you as a smoker can't see that your habit effects others, even if you don't do it on the clock, that's your narrow vision. As a business owner, or as a coworker paying into an insurance policy, or having to share equipment or space with a smoker - why should I pay more, or have to tolerate the filthy conditions some smokers bring with them to indulge your habit? In this instance, you're pushing the special "right" to smoke, at the expense - literally - of others. That makes them less free, so you can have the "right" to smoke.

Its the same with alcohol - if you go home and get blasted every night it can indeed cause my insurance premiums to increase, both as an employer and as someone buying a health insurance policy. If you come to work hung over or otherwise under the influence, your decision and actions off the clock very well adversely effects others. Weed is no different.

My father is a heavy equipment operator. He primarily operates cranes and large fork lifts. There's times he's not allowed to partake in any mind altering substances because of his employment - as he is subject to being called in. Its a condition of his employment that he agreed to and abides by because the pay is worth it. If he didn't like it, he'd find another place to work that didn't have that condition.

Even in unskilled or low skilled labor you have a choice of employers. There are plenty of employers that simply don't give a damn if you smoke, drink, or do drugs. They dont' drug test. They don't care. There are skilled labor services again that don't care, or care very little. Its your responsibility as the consumer or the employee to find the place that suits you - its not the responsibility of any business to bend to the desires of the employees.

Admit it that you simply want drug addicts to be a special class and thus given special consideration and "rights" over others, damn the costs, damn the consequences. I'm libertarian in that I don't really give a damn what someone wants to do on their own time. They can do hard drugs, they can drink themselves to death, they can obtain sexual gratification through any consensual means with any adult or inanimate object they wish, they can smoke, they can build unregistered machine guns and silencers in their garage - so long as I don't have to pay for it, I don't have to put up with the side effects, and I don't have to give you special consideration for it. It is where you demand that I pay for your problems, your addiction, or I have to tolerate the negative effects to my business or other employees where I draw the line.

This issue is certainly a control issue - but it sounds like the smokers are the ones that want the control. They don't want to be subject to the consequences of their habit. They want special rights. They want that entitlement without the responsibility. Should gun owners get their own special carve out? I own a Glock so you have to hire me? You can't fire me because I'm a gun owner? I shouldn't get charged a higher insurance rate simply because I own a firearm? Again it all comes back to personal responsibility, and what or who you are willing to do business with. It doesn't make me more free to mandate that I must hire XYZ person, or cater to ABC's addictions or problems.

The government should stay out of dictating the policies of private businesses or contracts among individuals. They should not discriminate in interactions between private individuals and government, but private businesses and individuals should have the freedom to engage with whoever, and however they want. The market will dictate failures and successes at that point. Even in the height of racial discrimination in the US - there were employers who would hire blacks and asians. Before the "gay rights" agenda started getting codified, employers hired and promoted openly gay people. There were black and gay business owners. There were businesses that catered to them. If we repealed every bit of employer-employee laws on the books today and businesses could impose whatever conditions they wanted - most would stay status quo because most business owners want to maximize their profits, and minimize their expenses.

Freedom is not always bright and pretty - sometimes its ugly. Sometimes it is offensive. Sometimes it means you get your personal feelings hurt. Imposing your will on another involuntarily - be it thru legislative actions or strong arm tactics is diminishing their freedom, not increasing it. Every time a special class is given special rights, that is taking away freedom from a larger group to give a little more to that one small bunch of special people. That is a net loss of freedom and a net loss to the economy.

I should no more have to pay for or tolerate your dirty habits than you should mine.

You still missed the whole thing by ranting about forcing people to do this or that etc...
and smokers are the ones who want control since when? I/we haven't been in control over anything other than if we quit or not since the late '70s or 80's when your people took control and made us move or made us pick smoking or none.
You're a wolf in sheep clothing using freedom and liberty for you to hide behind. Who said smokers don't want to be subject to the consequences of the habit? Don't think I said that nor implied. How are we a protected class or tying to be? or want special rights?
Gun owners getting their own carveouts? but where the hell do you get that????
So you're not controlling people then? by supporting this kind of policy? Did you see the list of states where this is Going to be? Mostly Red States and a few Blue ones. So forcing people to agree to some stupid nicotine test isn't controlling or dictating to people they have to quit just to get a job at and is this your company or their company? Almost sounds like it's your company and you're defending it. But forcing people to either quit smoking to get a job is freedom?
what are your dirty habits that I/we have to pay for? Last I saw, we pay for our own and it's none of your business if we smoke or not. Nor is it your right to force people into compliance with not smoking in order to get or keep a job either. that's going way too fricking far. it's one thing to make people pay a sin tax but when people Gov't or private entities begin to dictate to others what they can and can't do that's Orwell.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

I see this as a threat to our freedom and liberty rather than helping it. For as I've stated the Anti-Smokers have been in control with a Majority for way too long. Smokers have never asked to be a protected class far from it they've been a overly controlled class. All for what because some Doctor at some time said this causes cancer? Maybe but even on Dr. Sites or cancer sites they still don't know the true cause. So basically were paying the price of our liberties because people believe in something that even if the majority believe even the Cancer sites don't actually come right out and say is the truth.
Just go to the American cancer society page and look up something like Kidney cancer and search causes of, and they will say things like were not sure but, and they will have a list of things they THINK not know but THINK.
This kind of crap making people not smoke is because public opinion rules more than truth does. It also serves as a test kitchen that for years the mains stream media has been playing on. Whether or not companies can control what you do while off the clock or not. You have said you champion freedom especially when it comes to the second amendment but another form or freedom to smoke or to not smoke you fail. you fail because you support this kind of crap.
This has far more reaching than just being able to work, it will reach out to the second amendment too. You cant work here if you own a gun. One already said that they are already toying with being able to test not just nicotine, caffeine, alcohol etc...
Sorry but this wont be a good thing. It will be one more nail in the coffin of liberty and what our country was founded on.
The second amendment was not only recognized, for you can't create anting that God didn't make for in the first place, But the second amendment wasn't just recognized to help over throw tyranny it was created to appease the smaller states like CT New Hampshire etc...
They feared the bigger states of being able to make and create laws that would make them do things as they did and wanted some kind of safe guard against, so the second amendment was recognized. Were a Republic that is supposed to look out for the individuals rights not a majority rules country. By supporting these kinds of things makes you a Hypocrite for ne you've said you support liberty and our liberty has been lost etc... This helps take our liberty away it doesn't help grant liberty and it poses a majority of people who've been duped into believing they are doing righteousness on banning or controlling tobacco. because they think it causes cancer, of which as I said even they still don't know for sure even as of 2017 or 2018.
I also see this as just another ploy by the red states or people on the right to control or punish those on the left because they don't like or want legal weed so to them you that what you're doing is punish people for your politics. You can hide behind your doing it for my own good or your doing so you will pay less but I know that's false because the evidence proves otherwise.
Because you've said so as well on the second amendment issue it's about control and not about you caring or as one said I don't want to pay for your dirty habit excuse etc... he can only say that because of what the media has said and what he, and people believe.
Be honest would this even be an issue If it weren't for what Some Dr. or the media has said? No I don't think so.
Our forefathers did not fight and die so private entities can do what the Govt wasn't supposed to be able to do which is infringe upon our rights one way or another.
I see it as also a threat so as to coerce smokers into quitting and or forcing them outright and another one size fits all or to force people into being like they are. It's also another form of failed prohibition, and new ways to control people. This isn't just U-Haul either and it owns companies in several states nation wide so it will be a nation wide issue and not just one state or so... Plus if more companies do this and they will more people will be out of jobs and or lie on their applications or submit resumes to.
Hunt, drink beer whiskey, own guns, you wont be able to unless you submit to their will.
But I know as usual ahead of time what I see will fall in def ears but I still have to try.
pure 666 as far as I am concerned.
Daniel 2 vs 44.

 

[E4mafia]

I think I see what you are saying, the same arguement of death by a thousand cuts and give an inch they'll take a mile over the smoking no go hire thing. I think you are trying to make th arguement that it's not cool for the state to impose rules against guns like how you can and cannot do this with guns but it's justified when a job acts like the state not allowing people who smoke to be hired.

Am I on the right track?

 

[csa_ap_hill]

I think I see what you are saying, the same arguement of death by a thousand cuts and give an inch they'll take a mile over the smoking no go hire thing. I think you are trying to make th arguement that it's not cool for the state to impose rules against guns like how you can and cannot do this with guns but it's justified when a job acts like the state not allowing people who smoke to be hired.

Am I on the right track?

me? if so yes mainly.
maybe a bit overstated but yes. I've already seen smokers being controlled as to where and when they can and been killed. Blomberg's NY FYI Garner etc...
Garner Got killed and the cop in the video admits he didn't see him do it, but because he has in the past the cop automatically assumed guilt so began what in our fore fathers time would have been illegal to do by anyone in authority and make an arrest without much more than one supposed witness.
They wouldn't have allowed all these high taxes as well.
People use the we have to pay for it so we get to ….
add your own blank.
But if we didn't have or allow ins to begin with or make it against the law to not have then it wouldn't matter who dies of cancer or not.
the excuse for seat belt laws is the same we pay high costs of ins so that's why the think they get to control it etc...
all these little steps have set up gun control and or other controls over our lives.
so yes if you mean me yes pretty much.
I'm just using a unpopular area so it's hidden.

 

[bbbass]

Just asking because it seems everyone has the answers needed to solve these problems in particular is all. Basically I am asking the very same when people just say "relocate for work" simply because they cannot afford where they are or have been priced out.

Never heard a response from anyone or a defined method of doing so just relocate, every time. Normally I like to have plans for things if it going to involve uprooting, same most people do before moving anywhere usually.

People saying "just move" are no different than you writing "just asking". The answer to how one accomplishes it is totally dependent on individual circumstances. To try to script a specific plan w/o knowing the details would be folly.

No skillz, no education, no money, no job, no friends, no family, no credit, no home, and you want to know how to "magically" transport that person into the middle class? LOL!!!!

Normal people who aren't homeless losers have some skillz, education, money, friends, family, etc. They need to figure it out. Are they really that stupid that they can't, or are they just beaten into inaction by all the people saying it can't be done. As I've said before, there is always a way... I know, because I've been there!!!!!!! Several times!!

Personally, I'm tired of all the doomsayers and disappointed in the members here positing how it can't be done. We need to stop with the negative vibes!!

 

[bbbass]

In times past before there were government provided safety nets - people who lost their jobs / homes moved to where there was work, or where they were told there would be work. They sold what they had to, borrowed what they could, and they took their families with them if/when they could. They got as far as they could go, or they got to their destination and made it work.

The same can be done today. An example I gave - say going to one of the oil fields - it would take a few hundred bucks in food & fuel, maybe some basic work appropriate clothes - but those places have work. And you don't need a local address to get hired on. Use a friends address, or family members. Whatever is on your ID card. Most of those guys are from somewhere else. Get your ID changed over when you decide you're going to stay, and update your address on file with the company as needed.

For those who may have some applicable skills - they may be able to hire on with a company and get some or all of the relocation expenses taken care of too.

For the young and able bodied - military service is always an option if you can't find a job anywhere else, though admittedly a lot of those who may be chronically unemployable would not be a good fit for military service, though most would probably benefit greatly from it if they survived it.

I think in today's era - there are a lot of ways one could come up with money to move, or even wind up in business for themselves. e-begging ala GoFundMe is rather popular. I'd rather donate to some guy looking to move to get a job, than just to pay his rent this month.

Craigslist has free stuff listings - and you could collect some of it and try to flip it. If you're only trying to scrape together a few hundred bucks for gas & food it could be done in a week or two of effort. Maybe a day if you get the right stuff and can craft the right ad.

Or maybe you take a low level job beneath your skill level and worth because its a job, and it is better than not having a job, or you take a couple of those jobs and you do what you need to to survive. I've had a few times - some recently even - where I was working two jobs. It sucks but if its what you have to do, its what you have to do.

You could borrow funds from friends / family?

Moving is hard. Its expensive. I get the idea of feeling stuck - felt it myself before. I agree with bbbass - where there is a will, there is a way. There's always a way, sometimes it just takes us a bit to see the way. And sometimes we need help seeing the way.

^^^ THIS ^^^

You saved me from having to write it all out.

If we take the example of my worthless grandson that won't move because he won't leave his kids behind... He has experience in the oil fields. He got sent to live with his dad as a teenager after he got caught breaking into a house with his buds and stealing electronics... his mom was a LEO and she couldn't have him be doing that. After a year in New Mexico, he ran away and drifted around, somehow winding up in Oklahoma. Did he hitchhike? I guess he found a way. Anyhow, he was 17 with not even a GED, no skillz, no job experience, and he got a job as a laborer in the oil fields in Oklahoma. His mother and I would be willing to finance his way to oil fields... Alaska, Texas, Wyoming, or back in Oklahoma. We would pay for a bus ticket, necessary clothing/boots/hardhat, a few bucks for temp lodging or a car to sleep in until he could build up enough cash to live better. There is a way forward but he is a loser that somehow believes it is less important to feed and house his kids than it is for them to have daddy time. Not a real man in my books!

If it was me in the hypothetical circumstance... Well I've never been w/o skillz, a diploma, transportation, and have had a credit card since I was 18... I could finance my own way to the oil fields. Just like I financed buying my first spec house to rehab in Westminster CA in 1975. Then in 1993, I returned to La Grande from Brookings, not broke but no job and age discrimination closing all the doors I tried.... so I created my own job. I researched low overhead low startup biz and discovered there were no Professional Home Inspection businesses in La Grande and never had been. I went to D.C. for schooling at the place I researched, HomePro, and started up the biz. Borrowed a logging camp 5th wheel trailer from a relative, moved it into an RV park and lived there until we could do better. I had money from a spec home we built in Brookings, but we planned to spend it buying as many rental units as we could, so I didn't want to use it for living expenses and not much for startup. Promoting and establishing that home inspection biz took a min of 3yrs and more like 5yrs to establish it in 4 counties. For income during that period, I started a Communications Consulting biz. At that time one didn't need a Low Voltage Electrician license to wire in phone extensions, Ethernet, RS232. I made a few bucks but it was only a sideline income. So I bought a Power Wash biz with equip and an established customer list from a guy that was desparate to part with it and required no down payment, only monthly pay as you go. I hated that work... but I did it because it was what I needed to do. So I had 3 biz going all at the same time... like having 3 jobs only I had to spend time promoting 2 of those biz in order to get any work... on a J.O.B. you don't have to do that! I was never going to be that guy with no prospects, not even having just graduated from High Screwl!!

But if I was somehow "magically" transported into the body of someone that was so unfortunate, so ill-prepared for life, and I wanted to get to the oil fields to find a job, I would:

The trite answer is shoot myself.

A more realistic answer is:

Ask family.
Ask friends.
Do a fundraiser.
Partner up with somebody.
Find a gal that has a job and move in with her. (Male tradition)

Or....

Take a temporary job. There are companies right here in La Grande that use laborers. Field work, ranch work, construction laborer, painter's helper, roofer, concrete crew, paving crew, etc. Work there until I can save up enough $$ for a bus ticket and work clothes specific to the oil fields. Once there, I would buy a car to sleep in. I would hitchhike to apply for jobs. If I had to, I would take a temp job there until I could get hired at an oil field.

But let's be clear, I don't want to be that guy. I never wanted to be that guy. My advice is don't be that guy. Most people can do better than being that guy.

 

[MannyGlocks]

If one has to remain local, there are well paid, low prestige jobs available.

Really?

Municipalities always need garbage collection guys. Tough, unglamorous work, but it pays well.

How do I know this?

A friend who was a city manager told me this tip.

And yes, promotions are available. You start as a laborer, then move up to driver, end up in the office. Yes, it's a tough even dangererous job, but if you're determined you can make it.

Plumbers are constantly looking for helpers. Yep, another no prestige job, that doesn't pay high wages, but it pays enough.

Or, if that doesn't sound appealing start up a lawn service business, takes a small investment and as you succeed you can buy better equipment.

 

[bbbass]

In 1973, I quit a middle class job working for the phone company because I had to drive from Pomona into Los Angeles on workdays. It took 2hrs in the morning and 3hrs in the afternoon for what should have been a 1/2hr drive. I had started drinking at lunch, then during breaks, then on the way home... not a good plan at age 20. After that I worked as a shade tree mechanic, took various tech jobs, moved to Huntington Beach and stayed with my parents for awhile. Got fired for leaving an NC controlled circuit board drilling machine running while I went to buy tacos. Oh well. Met a gal that had two kids, screwed like a bunny, and was a fabulous cook... left the folks house and moved in with her. My folks warned me. Oh well.

Rather than stay home and babysit her kids (I found out after a month that I'm not wired that way), I took a min wage job in the back room of a pizza parlor that her brother managed. Yeah, back room of a restaurant, after working at the phone company. Talk about unglamorous! After her brother left, I became manager! Yay, moving up!!!

Then, we decided to get married. (dumbazz!). It was during the 1974-75 oil crisis inspired recession and jobs were scarce. The guy living across the street was a USCG Aircrew and I thought that sounded good, so I signed up. It wasn't easy making it on E1 pay in 1975. My wife wanted to live in our house in Huntington Beach in order to take care of her mom that had cancer. Now an E3, I needed the BAQ and Comrats pay, so I couldn't move into the barracks in San Diego and I lived in the empty camper hidden in a back corner of the base, eating day old bread and marmalade. Good times!!!

Point being, one either does what one has to, what is needed, or one doesn't. And becomes a loser. Inaction, fear, self-doubt, etc are all mind killers. Decide to do something, even if it's wrong!!!

BTW, I haven't been in the middle class since I had to quit my Home Inspection biz due to decreasing mental clarity caused by health problems. But we survived. As well, we survived when I was laid off at age 60. Just do it. There is always a way!!!

 

[mkwerx]

In 1973, I quit a middle class job working for the phone company because I had to drive from Pomona into Los Angeles on workdays. It took 2hrs in the morning and 3hrs in the afternoon for what should have been a 1/2hr drive. I had started drinking at lunch, then during breaks, then on the way home... not a good plan at age 20. After that I worked as a shade tree mechanic, took various tech jobs, moved to Huntington Beach and stayed with my parents for awhile. Got fired for leaving an NC controlled circuit board drilling machine running while I went to buy tacos. Oh well. Met a gal that had two kids, screwed like a bunny, and was a fabulous cook... left the folks house and moved in with her. My folks warned me. Oh well.

Rather than stay home and babysit her kids (I found out after a month that I'm not wired that way), I took a min wage job in the back room of a pizza parlor that her brother managed. Yeah, back room of a restaurant, after working at the phone company. Talk about unglamorous! After her brother left, I became manager! Yay, moving up!!!

Then, we decided to get married. (dumbazz!). It was during the 1974-75 oil crisis inspired recession and jobs were scarce. The guy living across the street was a USCG Aircrew and I thought that sounded good, so I signed up. It wasn't easy making it on E1 pay in 1975. My wife wanted to live in our house in Huntington Beach in order to take care of her mom that had cancer. Now an E3, I needed the BAQ and Comrats pay, so I couldn't move onto the base in San Diego and I lived in the empty camper hidden in a back corner of the base, eating day old bread and marmalade. Good times!!!

Point being, one either does what one has to, what is needed, or one doesn't. And becomes a loser. Inaction, fear, self-doubt, etc are all mind killers. Decide to do something, even if it's wrong!!!

BTW, I haven't been in the middle class since I had to quit my Home Inspection biz due to decreasing mental clarity caused by health problems. But we survived. As well, we survived when I was laid off at age 60. Just do it. There is always a way!!!

This is why I like "old farts" - they're honest and always have lessons to learn from, even if we don't always like the lessons.

 

[E4mafia]

This is why I love the internet. You ask directly and you get told to use Google.

You ask in a way that people wonder if you have room temp IQ and all the secrets come flowing. This has been a awesome thread with awesome people.