Smith for a rechamber in the Willamette Valley?

[meta_gabbro]

Trying to get a 5.56 barrel rechambered to 223AI, but the only smith I'm familiar with in my area is quoting $380 for the job, at which point I might as well just buy a new barrel and sell the current one. Prefer somewhere in the Willamette Valley like the title says, but I'd be willing to drive within a few hours of Eugene, OR for the right price.

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[Koda]

Have you factored in the cost of gas?

Im curious what your build is? My guess is a coyote rifle on an AR platform?

 

[P7M13]

There are those who have rented a reamer and done it by hand.
Not a method I'd recommend, but an option.
Edit to add: for that cost, you're right there for a custom barrel in 223 AI.
Going online with McGowen barrels, you can get what you want for $320 and then have two barrels.
Me, I'd just go with an off the shelf 224 Valkyrie or 22 ARC. You can currently buy a Wilson Combat barrel in 6mm ARC for $200.

 

[meta_gabbro]

Have you factored in the cost of gas?

Im curious what your build is? My guess is a coyote rifle on an AR platform?

I have - other forums have put rechambering costs at anywhere from $150-250, which is cheap enough to justify one or two tanks of gas pretty easily when compared to $380.

Build is a Ruger American . Want to AI it for a couple reasons - first and foremost to have some more oomph behind 77gr TMKs for deer, and then to make up for the shorter barrel when shooting at distance. Looking to push 2800fps with those TMKs out of a 16" barrel, likely with LVR.

 

[meta_gabbro]

There are those who have rented a reamer and done it by hand.
Not a method I'd recommend, but an option.
Edit to add: for that cost, you're right there for a custom barrel in 223 AI.
Going online with McGowen barrels, you can get what you want for $320 and then have two barrels.
Me, I'd just go with an off the shelf 224 Valkyrie or 22 ARC. You can currently buy a Wilson Combat barrel in 6mm ARC for $200.

I'd thought about that too, but I'm wary of doing it by hand. I don't want to cock it up, and I'd also like it to be done properly, with the barrel set back slightly and the chamber redone to be 4 thou shorter. And yeah, I know I'm close to custom costs with the local smith, which is why I'm trying to find someone who can do the job for less.

 

[P7M13]

I know I'm close to custom costs with the local smith, which is why I'm trying to find someone who can do the job for less.

Do you plan on hunting deer in Oregon with a 223 caliber? Did ODFW change the regs?

Ah, Ruger American, not an AR...
Soap box time

• Once they chuck it up, you are into custom costs.
• For an AR, removing the locking lugs, reaming the chamber and re-pinning the lugs is a full-on process. For a bolt barrel, that's facing the action, recutting the end, chambering, moving the shoulder, What would lead you to expect it should be any less?
• Good gunsmiths are a dwindling crowd, and shooters and collectors are protective and want to see them succeed. Why would anyone recommend a good smith when you state you're trying to be cheap?
• Asking a smith to produce something that is out of spec (4 mils shorter) is asking them to sign on for the liability - not gonna happen.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Spend a little bit more and buy a dedicated deer rifle in an appropriate deer hunting caliber. The deer you don't cripple will thank you.

 

[orygun]

Do you plan on hunting deer in Oregon with a 223 caliber? Did ODFW change the regs?

22 Centerfire rifles have been legal for deer in this state as long as I can remember (a long time). The minimum caliber for elk is .24.

 

[Koda]

I have - other forums have put rechambering costs at anywhere from $150-250, which is cheap enough to justify one or two tanks of gas pretty easily when compared to $380.

Build is a Ruger American . Want to AI it for a couple reasons - first and foremost to have some more oomph behind 77gr TMKs for deer, and then to make up for the shorter barrel when shooting at distance. Looking to push 2800fps with those TMKs out of a 16" barrel, likely with LVR.

I just thought driving 2ish hours one way (4hrs round trip) is a lot of gas money, so if you find a smith at $200 and spend $100 RT in gas might as well stay with your local smith in case you need to take it back or something. Anyways, if you want the best smith in the area give Copeland Gunworks in Estacada a call. Search the forum for reviews and you'll be impressed.


As you know, the 223 is legal for deer in all states. Its a small caliber and gets some criticism but there are others who swear by it for deer... in the right hands the standard 223 has no issues taking deer and IMO anyone who reloads especially anyone wanting to AI improve it for hunting is someone who pays attention to marksmanship and is aware of the limitations. Just don't shoot past your bullets terminal velocity rating and your GTG.
AI improving the chamber will give you a slight edge and should gain you another 100yds on your terminal velocity, good way to go if you don't want to buy a new rifle.
Although at some point you'll want to hunt elk, but I digress...

 

[meta_gabbro]

Spend a little bit more and buy a dedicated deer rifle in an appropriate deer hunting caliber. The deer you don't cripple will thank you.

I appreciate the concern, but the 77gr TMK is a pretty decently proven bullet and terminal performance is more than adequate for the shots I'm taking on the deer I'm targeting. I sincerely doubt that my attempt to drive it another 150fps faster than my 5.56 loads will result in any more crippled deer than I've had already, which so far has been none. I know the limits of myself and of the cartridge, and I'm willing to pass on deer that don't present ideal targets within the hard limits of range and shot angle I've set for myself.

Keep in mind too that in my part of the state we're looking at blacktails and smaller mulies, typically within short distances (<200yd). If I were in a more classic "western" environment where I expected larger individuals and longer shots, I'd bring my 280AI.

 

[bpyycpyy]

As you know, the 223 is legal for deer in all states.

Not in WA. Minimum is .24. Several other states require larger than .22 centerfire also.

Edit: Found at Stag Arms website: "Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Virginia, Ohio, New Jersey, Washington, and West Virginia require larger bullets to be used to hunt game." I have not verified this to be accurate other than for WA.

 

[meta_gabbro]

Do you plan on hunting deer in Oregon with a 223 caliber? Did ODFW change the regs?

Ah, Ruger American, not an AR...
Soap box time

• Once they chuck it up, you are into custom costs.
• For an AR, removing the locking lugs, reaming the chamber and re-pinning the lugs is a full-on process. For a bolt barrel, that's facing the action, recutting the end, chambering, moving the shoulder, What would lead you to expect it should be any less?
• Good gunsmiths are a dwindling crowd, and shooters and collectors are protective and want to see them succeed. Why would anyone recommend a good smith when you state you're trying to be cheap?
• Asking a smith to produce something that is out of spec (4 mils shorter) is asking them to sign on for the liability - not gonna happen.

I absolutely expect this to be cheaper than buying a new custom since 1) I'm providing the part so there's no cost for materials and 2) work only needs to be done on the chamber and face; no rifling, crowning, or threading like I'd need to be done with a custom. Why should I expect something with substantially fewer machine-hours to cost the same as a custom?

There seems to be some misunderstanding here, I'm not looking for cheap, I'm looking for cheaper. By all accounts what my local smith is asking for is anywhere from half again to twice as much as what other smiths charge for the same service. I'm not looking for some bubba to do this job for a six pack and Benjamin, I'm looking for a smith who isn't charging $100 more than the competition. That's not an unreasonable thing to ask for advice on. I'm not saying I'm going to haggle with whoever gets recommended either, I'm willing to pay a fair price -- which is not what my smith is asking for.

And chambering an Ackley 4 thou (not 4 mils) is not really out of spec. The Ackley chambers are designed to be a slight crush fit on the parent cartridge to ensure that there is adequate support at the shoulder to support the case when fire forming. This article from a pretty reputable reamer manfucaturer explains it, as does this page from a site dedicated to Ackley's work.

You can see that in the CIP diagram for the 30-06 and the 30-06AI. The SAAMI diagrams for the 280 Rem and 280AI show an even more substantial reduction. This article on the 223AI shows the 0.004 reduction I'm talking about.

 

[Koda]

Not in WA. Minimum is .24. Several other states require larger than .22 centerfire also.

Edit: Found at Stag Arms website: "Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Virginia, Ohio, New Jersey, Washington, and West Virginia require larger bullets to be used to hunt game." I have not verified this to be accurate other than for WA.

thats good to know. (appreciate the correction)
I dont have a problem with it, but I admit its on the very smallest side of calibers I would consider for medium game.

 

[meta_gabbro]

I just thought driving 2ish hours one way (4hrs round trip) is a lot of gas money, so if you find a smith at $200 and spend $100 RT in gas might as well stay with your local smith in case you need to take it back or something. Anyways, if you want the best smith in the area give Copeland Gunworks in Estacada a call. Search the forum for reviews and you'll be impressed.


As you know, the 223 is legal for deer in all states. Its a small caliber and gets some criticism but there are others who swear by it for deer... in the right hands the standard 223 has no issues taking deer and IMO anyone who reloads especially anyone wanting to AI improve it for hunting is someone who pays attention to marksmanship and is aware of the limitations. Just don't shoot past your bullets terminal velocity rating and your GTG.
AI improving the chamber will give you a slight edge and should gain you another 100yds on your terminal velocity, good way to go if you don't want to buy a new rifle.
Although at some point you'll want to hunt elk, but I digress...

I'm in a wee little commuter car, so 4 hours round is barely 7 gallons of gas. To do that trip twice would run me $60, so a smith would have to be charging more than $300 for the local guy to be a better value. And that's only *if* something goes wrong, which really shouldnt happen given that it's a pretty minor amount of work and the barrel is already bored and trued (at least enough for my purposes).

 

[orygun]

thats good to know. (appreciate the correction)
I dont have a problem with it, but I admit its on the very smallest side of calibers I would consider for medium game.

I've considered using a .223 for treestand hunting, because a 40 yard shot would be a long one, but just never have.

 

[Koda]

but the 77gr TMK is a pretty decently proven bullet and terminal performance is more than adequate for the shots I'm taking on the deer I'm targeting.

Im confident youve put a lot of thought into your selection but your aware that Sierra does not recommend the TMKs for deer hunting?

Ive heard of some hunters who claim match grade bullets also perform on game so maybe this is one of those?

 

[orygun]

Im confident youve put a lot of thought into your selection but your aware that Sierra does not recommend the TMKs for deer hunting?

Ive heard of some hunters who claim match grade bullets also perform on game so maybe this is one of those?

It's a hollowpoint design with a tip and a very thin jacket. My concern would be the bullet opening up way to early or disintegrating on a bone.

 

[meta_gabbro]

Im confident youve put a lot of thought into your selection but your aware that Sierra does not recommend the TMKs for deer hunting?

Ive heard of some hunters who claim match grade bullets also perform on game so maybe this is one of those?

Yep, I'm aware of that. I was very very skeptical about it at first, but there's a thread over on Rokslide that has quite a bit of discussion on that bullet in particular. I did some testing on some discarded livestock carcasses when I was living in New Mexico and it was fairly impressive in tissue. Performed about as well as the 123gr SSTs I was using in a 6.5 Grendel, so I gave it a shot and it's been acceptable so far.

@orygun might be worth looking into as well if you're on the fence.

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[Koda]

I've considered using a .223 for treestand hunting, because a 40 yard shot would be a long one, but just never have.

I have used a 223 one time on a deer. I had to fall back onto that because of a stupid mishap took my deer rifle scope out of commission mid season. Luckily I had a hunting handload worked up for my AR15 (something people criticized me as wasting my time... )
Wasnt an impressive distance at about 40yds but the 55gn Barnes TTSX was absolutely devastating on the deer.

Spoiler: tiny entry vs wound channel

 

[meta_gabbro]

I have used a 223 one time on a deer. I had to fall back onto that because of a stupid mishap took my deer rifle scope out of commission mid season. Luckily I had a hunting handload worked up for my AR15 (something people criticized me as wasting my time... )
Wasnt an impressive distance at about 40yds but the 55gn Barnes TTSX was absolutely devastating on the deer.

I like it! Barnes have always performed well for me, their LRX is my go-to for my 280. The only reason I'm not loading them in the 223 is that I've got a big jug of LVR I was using in my Grendel, and it does better with heavier bullets in the 223. Wasn't getting great velocities with the 55gr Barnes, so I started looking into the 75gr Speer Gold Dots then the TMKs.