Silencer Storage Requirements/Solutions?

[wired]

It's my understanding that the stamp and paperwork is proof of ownership of the suppressor or NFA item. Should the items ownership be questioned by authorities the paperwork needs to be available or it will be confiscated. The stamp is not a lic but a title.

You only need to prove ownership by supplying the tax document ( form 1 or 4 ) to an ATF agent. Others may ask but if its not in the state law you dont have to show them anything. It will make your life more interesting short term but you will get your stuff back.

In 25 years of NFA ownership one range safety officer has asked to see my paperwork. I told him to pound sand and they asked me to leave. I did. Never been questioned otherwise . Most people familiar with the stuff know that you arent going to get one without paperwork . One year at a block 4th of July party I invited a state cop over to see my SBR collection. He made a point of looking for form 1 engraving but didnt ask for paperwork. Note to self ...do not ask state cops to come in home. Stupid alcohol.

 

[BigStick]

If you are on a trust just add your wife.

Didn't do a trust. This was my first one, and it seemed like just buying it as an individual would be the simplest. I may consider a trust for future purchases, because while simpler to buy, it is apparently more complicated to own/use while married and not on a trust.

 

[Member 34319]

We are renting for now. I'm curious why what would matter? I guess the landlord has keys. That could be a problem.

But the answer I am taking away is, my wife is not supposed to have access to it while I am gone. Well that is annoying. I have to figure out a new storage option, because right now she has access to all of my gun storage options.

I am still curious exactly what "so that no one else has access to them" means.
(Thanks for the link Heretic.)

I was asking mostly for your ability to modify a wall. There are a lot of in the wall lockers that would be a good choice for securing a rifle with a can on it. However since your renting it gets a bit more difficult to do such modifications unless your able to completely fix upon leaving.

I'd suggest an under the bed type locker then. They can be purchased in multiple sizes and some can be wide enough to house a suppressed rifle. I recommend Titan products because they use Simplex type locks. They are mechanical and don't require batteries.

Home page

 

[BigStick]

Thanks for the link. I am planning on putting on a 10.5" AR pistol, so it might be short enough to fit in a drawer. And I can leave the Gunvault with the pistols in it for the wife to use if I'm not there.

 

[Colts4me]

Just a suggestion and not advice. I don't believe there is any totally secure place in a residence to store anything so it can' be stolen given time to steal it. So at best if you don' have a safe then hide your stuff so that thieves don't have the time to find it. There are special made shelves that hide rifles and shotguns that don' look like anything plus they have hidden locks. Still everything can be stolen given time.

At best you need to look like you did the best you could in proper care. Front door lock, closet lock, hidden from view and cable lock if you leave. Again this is opinion so research it and do the best you can.

 

[Argonaut]

Sure seems like a lot of crap and red tape to go through just to own a friggin muffler. Ain't fed. gun laws grand.

They are actually legal here in Idaho without a stamp but it is another issue like legal marijuana in Washington/Oregon. The state passed a law making them legal without a stamp but conflict with the Fed isn't worth the risk. All of mine have the appropriate stamps. When I went into see my buddy the Sheriff his question was "why, they are legal anyway".

 

[wired]

Its only an issue if she uses the gun/silencer for some criminal activity and they want to stack charges against you later. Otherwise no one is coming into your home to inspect your storage conditions. Also keep in mind that best practices and FAQ's do not carry the weight of law.

 

[BigStick]

Just a suggestion and not advice. I don't believe there is any totally secure place in a residence to store anything so it can' be stolen given time to steal it. So at best if you don' have a safe then hide your stuff so that thieves don't have the time to find it. There are special made shelves that hide rifles and shotguns that don' look like anything plus they have hidden locks. Still everything can be stolen given time.

At best you need to look like you did the best you could in proper care. Front door lock, closet lock, hidden from view and cable lock if you leave. Again this is opinion so research it and do the best you can.

I have seen the hidden shelves or mirror storage solutions, but hadn't thought about them for this. That is a great potential solution. I will have to look into that. I think the landlord might be ok with it. He is a very reasonable guy.

I do have a steel gun cabinet in the garage, but it is a small house, so there is no room for that in the bedroom closet. Very tight quarters.

 

[BigStick]

Its only an issue if she uses the gun/silencer for some criminal activity and they want to stack charges against you later. Otherwise no one is coming into your home to inspect your storage conditions. Also keep in mind that best practices and FAQ's do not carry the weight of law.

I'm not worried about criminal activity, but if she were to use it in defense, it would then come under scrutiny, right? I understand that usually with extenuating circumstances, that shouldn't be a problem, but we do live in Washington Co, so an unreasonable/vindictive prosecutor is more likely than not.

 

[HB of CJ]

It is my understanding that the tax stamp or a copy of the tax stamp "legally creates" a space of control and legal possession around the NFA item. That is why you need to carry and provide either the original or a copy of the stamp at all times you are in possession and control of the stamp. Wow. Kinda like driving a car. Gotta have that drivers license with you.

The letter of law says only properly delegated BATFE agents can ask to see your stamp to determine NFA legality. But our reality is that any law enforcement WITH EXCELLENT PROBABLE CAUSE can ask to see your NFA tax stamp OUTSIDE YOUR HOME. Be polite but be firm. Ask them for their PC. They cannot be on a fishing expedition. They must have cause.

Some believe owning a NFA item with a tax stamp gives any law enforcement the right to conduct searches of your person or property at any time. Especially BATFE agents. NO. The need a search warrant just like anybody else. This includes Border Patrol agents? YES. They need a warrant to specifically look for any NFA item you have with a tax stamp. YEP!

You do NOT have to secure the NFA item inside your home. It does not have to stay in the safe if you are at work. You wife or girl friend can fondle and handle the can while you are gone. She can practice presentations. She can safely dry fire. She can NOT shoot the gun with you gone. She can NOT take it someplace with her outside your home. It must stay home.

Renting makes no difference. Unless you own your place outright you are renting from the Bank. You can relocate your NFA stuff to a secure location under your control or possession. A bank security vault box works. Our NFA stuff goes inside such with a stamp copy when we leave town or go on vacation. Cans, M2 trigger housing, valuables. All goes in the box.

Again even today NFA trusts are the way to go. It creates a "Corporate Business" with the NFA stuff. You can add or delete anybody you want to the NFA trust at any time ... if the NFA trust is set up correctly. Nowadays you will need photos and fingerprints and FBI background checks of all added NFA trust members. Just like you. A bad new addition to the law.

EDITED: Old trusts before the new bad law are not required to undergo the fingerprinting, passport type photo or the FBI back ground check. NFA trusts after the bad new law like new trusts today require all members of the NFA trust to undergo checks.

END EDIT. Thank you wired.

I am NOT a NFA lawyer. Not any lawyer. I may have this wrong. Accurate as far as I know. All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply. This is he usual legal declaration saying that all of our various NFA goodies are legal to own and use in Oregon USA. Your local regional and state gun laws may vary greatly. Stay legal. Again, NFA trusts are the way to go.

 

[wired]

Nowadays you will need photos and fingerprints and FBI background checks of all added NFA trust members. Just like you. A bad new addition to the law.

I

Sort of. If its a new trust with all the trustees added up front you will need to have all of them fingerprinted etc. If its a new( or old ) trust and you add a trustee to down the road you do not need to have them fingerprinted etc.

You are spot on on the rest. Remember that simply having someone in the house with an unsecured NFA item is not a transfer . They are not allowed to use the item while not in your presence but they are not committing a crime while being in the vicinity .

As far as using the gun while you arent there to shoot an intruder....buy her a pistol. The ear ringing goes away ( and so does your hearing over time. ) .

 

[HB of CJ]

Clarifications ... Objective ...

Thank you wired. Corrections and additions added to my post. Welcome everybody to the fun and madness of NFA ownership. Every question regarding the legality of cans creates at least two more important questions. Understand that everybody has an educated opinion. It is possible I have it wrong. But I believe based upon much interaction and experience to have most of it right.

It gets so confusing. If you think suppressor ownership is fun, consider the other aspects of the NFA hobby. An example would be the M2 Carbine. The BATFE has created a real mares nest regarding the ins and outs of legal M2 Carbine ownership. The rules get to the point of non comprehension. Can ownership by comparison is simple and easy. Just a muffler for a gun but there it is.

Respectfully. Equal paragraph attempts is futile.

 

[The Heretic]

When I went into see my buddy the Sheriff his question was "why, they are legal anyway".

 

[wired]

Id be a silencer building fool in Idaho. Damn the feds.

 

[Argonaut]

Id be a silencer building fool in Idaho. Damn the feds.

The feds are a two sided sword. It is what keeps firearms legal in anti gun states and imposes restrictions in totally open states. Washington and Oregon are headed down the California trail with very few roadblocks in place to slow the progression. The second amendment is a federal law, I can see a time in the near future that you will be wishing for federal intervention for you to preserve any modicum of gun rights.

 

[Heywood]

It seems as though modern children and wives can't be trusted not to play with things that aren't theirs...

 

[WildBills-AR]

I'm seeing a lot of bad information here. If you have questions or doubts talk to a lawyer or go to the BATF web sight and start reading. It's not always easy to find the answer but keep looking and when in doubt verify your info. This is something to take seriously and not rely on info from someone on a forum.

 

[best defense]

Yes any Co-Trustee must send their picture and new fingerprints for each new acquisition or every two years. I dont have a Co-trustee just for this reason. Life is busy enough and can change it later if needed.

******************************************************************
Right, the rules for trusts have changed since I did mine, and yes, anyone named on the trust can handle and use the NFA item. I did not need to submit photo or finger prints back a few years ago but now I believe you do. However, if I die or otherwise become incapacitated, my trust, being a living trust with a survivor trustee listed in the trust means that the person who is the survivor trustee will become the new trustee, and that page can be changed when the new trustee takes over owner ship of the trust. As long as the new trustee wants to maintain the trust, it will survive, as far as I know without any new trustee submitting finger prints or photos.

 

[HB of CJ]

Respectfully ...

If folks here are providing bad information and I am one doing such please feel free to pitch in here and enter the conservation. I for one could always use some updates and corrections. Just saying. No dog.

Respectfully ...

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply.

 

[BigStick]

Still looking for other ideas for quick access storage solutions for a silenced AR

I'm seeing a lot of bad information here. If you have questions or doubts talk to a lawyer or go to the BATF web sight and start reading. It's not always easy to find the answer but keep looking and when in doubt verify your info. This is something to take seriously and not rely on info from someone on a forum.

You make a good point. That was why I asked for references in my initial post. As far as access to the NFA item, I read the ATF rules (even though I can't find them again now to quote from). The question I still have is just an interpretation of what constitutes secure storage, and access? I'm not sure where to get that interpretation. Anyone with a reference to an actual ATF ruling or letter on the matter would be greatly appreciated.