SIG P227 TACOPS - 14 rd. mag problems

[The Heretic]

Just now tried out my 'new' (to me and it looks NIB) P227.

As I suspected, it worked fine with the 10 rd mag (with one plus in the chamber).

The 14 rd. mag was a bit different case. Again, I started with one in the chamber and 14 in the mag.

First 4 or 5 were okay, then the next 4 nose down FTF slide back, then one the slide went over the round all the way, then the rest were okay.

As I knew before I bought it, this is a well known problem with the 14 rd. mags from SIG.

From the threads on SIG Talk, I would guess about 50% of P227 owners have had this problem. It seems those who put in a stronger spring from Wolff stop having problems. Wolff does not make P227 springs, they used a 10+% 'extra power' spring for a Para P14.

Some owners keep sending their mags to SIG until they get one that works. I can see their point, the mags are $50+ MSRP (IIRC) and it is an expensive gun, which SIG touts loudly about having 14+1 capacity. But I am just going to get the spring and forego the games with SIG.

Some tried putting the spring in upside down, but I don't think I want to do that, even if it works.

I noted that the spring in the 10 rd mag was noticeably stiffer than that in the 14 rd. mag.

Disappointed with SIG (even though I knew this going in) while at the same time liking my new gun. Why don't they just fix this problem and be done with it? Come on SIG, you are better than this.

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[Seared Saba]

This is what happens when a manufacturer prioritizes production rather than quality. Sig has made a clear decision on this unfortunately.

 

[The Heretic]

This is what happens when a manufacturer prioritizes production rather than quality. Sig has made a clear decision on this unfortunately.

I think they made a design mistake - or rather MecGar, who makes the mags for them, made a design mistake and SIG may not have adequately tested the 14 rd. mags (if 50% are failing in the field, if they had tested them, I think they would have noticed the problem). If I had that kind of failure rate I would do a recall, fix the problem and stop ignoring it (at least on the public level).

Fortunately it seems that there is a way for owners to fix their mags.

Also, I knew about this going in before I bought the gun.

Still, poor service on the part of SIG.

 

[The Heretic]

So, I stretched the spring and tried to reshape it such that the nose of the follower would have more pressure on it.

One shot in the chamber, 14 in the mag.

The first two shots were ok and then the third FTF with the nose down and that continued with subsequent rounds until the sixth shot on which the slide went forward but did not feed a round. When I pulled the mag the round fell out of the mag well.

So stretching the spring doesn't work - this is exactly what it did before. I have read that stretching a spring does not make it have more tension.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

That does suck! Given that there is a fix and it's well publicized, Sig should step up and replace the weak springs!

 

[Seared Saba]

I guess I should consider myself pretty lucky. Have owned 2 P227s so far. Never had any issues with the 14rd mags.

I'm so sorry for the trouble you are going through. I'm not happy with their QC these days but they are quite fair when it comes to warranty services. There is still hope, you know. Do you happen to stop by Clackamas areas sometime? If you want, you can try my 14rd mag with your gun at Johnson creek gun club if this is something you are interested in. I'm also curious about seeing how your mag works with my P227.

 

[The Heretic]

From the research I am pretty sure it is a mag spring issue. I am not surprised you don't have problems, I think at least 50% do not, possibly more given the tendency of people to complain when things do not work but not say much if anything when they work as expected.

So I will order a spring and see what happens.

 

[MEP1000]

Sorry you are having issues with your 227 mags. I've got 4 extra 14 rounders I haven't tested out yet looks like I better get busy. Original 4 work perfectly!

 

[The Heretic]

I should receive the springs by next weekend so we'll see then whether those are the issue.

 

[The Heretic]

Got the Para springs this week.

Noticed they are shorter than the SIG mag springs - 10 coils vs 14 but noticeably stiffer.

Put the unmodified spring in the mag - sproing! Oops! Spring and follower went flying. Finally got it in.

Could only fit 13 rounds in the mag by hand - going to have to find a loader to get that last one in.

Put one in the chamber, de-cocked it then put the mag in.

Ran perfectly. No problems. All rounds fed and ejected.

I consider the problem fixed, but I am going to get some more 14 round mags and if any of those do not work correctly I will replace their springs too (I bought a three pack of springs).

 

[The Heretic]

SIG P227 14 round mags - $24 each for next 24 hours @ Osage Co. Gun

 

[sithc]

Sorry to hear about mag issue. I nevered fired/used the 14 rounder once so I never knew of issue. It was just a backup sitting in the safe. But glad you liked the gun though. Best.

 

[The Heretic]

Got the other 5 mags but have not had a chance to try them yet.

 

[The Heretic]

Got the other 5 mags but have not had a chance to try them yet.

Four out of five failed on the first try - 3 of those 4 FTF'd on the fourth round, the other FTF'd about halfway thru.

The fifth mag was good on the first 14 rounds, fed the whole mag, but then I figured I should try it again, and it failed on the second go around, stopping on the fourth round. Each time there was a FTF the round was nose down in the mag.

So I will put my remaining two Wolff springs in two mags and retry those. If that fixes those mags then I will get three more springs and test those.

 

[The Heretic]

Sorry to hear about mag issue. I nevered fired/used the 14 rounder once so I never knew of issue. It was just a backup sitting in the safe. But glad you liked the gun though. Best.

If you are going to depend on a gun for self-defense, always test it with all mags and any ammo you may use - at least several times over.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

If you are going to depend on a gun for self-defense, always test it with all mags and any ammo you may use - at least several times over.

Any kind of exchange or warranty policy with the company?

 

[The Heretic]

Any kind of exchange or warranty policy with the company?

Oh sure. I can send the mags back to SIG Sauer and they will send me another one. Back and forth until I get one that works. I just got five new ones and not one works. So how long would it take until I got all five to work given that SIG Sauer doesn't acknowledge that they put the wrong spring in their mags?

Or I could send the gun back to them with the mags and say send me the gun and the mags back when they all work.

Or I can just buy some springs and replace them and go from there. I am doing the latter because I am not going to waste my time playing that game with SIG. I really like SIG products, but in my observation, they sometimes screw up like this - if they didn't, every new mag would work.

I really don't think it is the gun, although I suppose it could be - I think it is the mag. As I said, this is a known problem with these mags, from what I have read it seems a lot of other people have the same problem.

 

[mkwerx]

Sadly it seems Sig has had big QC problems and poor design in the last decade or so. They make dozens of small batch special run stuff and wind up with big black eyes. Other products seem rushed to market or otherwise poorly engineered. Look at the NJSP lawsuit because Sig could not get guns to run right, gave a bunch of different answers to what was wrong and still could not get the guns to function. NJSP wound up with Glocks because of it. Then there is the 320 fiasco. The 227 mag problems...


I love Sig pistols but they need new leadership, better QC/testing practices, and refocus on what made them one of the nest gun makers in the first place.

As spotty as Sig quality is on newer guns I think my next "Sig" will be an Arex Rex Zero 1 compact. At least till they get things straightened out. Older Sigs are still good to go in my book though.

 

[nwslopoke]

I have a P229 40 cal & a P220. Strangely every cheap aftermarket weirdo mag has worked perfectly. Even some $9 unmarked 8 rounders for the P220. Give the aftermarket a try.

 

[The Heretic]

Well, the P227 is basically a P266 scaled up to .45 ACP, and the mag problem seems fixable - albeit with extra expense, and I really like it otherwise, so I am going to keep it.

I like my P229 too.

I know not every model every manufacturer makes is perfect, but I like these SIGs better than Glocks and now I have the two calibers I want covered. I would like an SA/DA single stack compact SIG that works and feels like the 229 or 227 - something the size of the P938 as a backup instead of the striker fired compacts I have, then I would be really happy - maybe there is something already and I just don't know it?

I knew the 227 had this problem going in, so it isn't surprising, just disappointed that SIG hasn't fixed it and won't recall the mags and fix all the new ones. I think part of it may be the fact that I don't think you can get 14 rounds into the mag with a proper spring.