SHTF: WASR vs NPAP

[41mag]

somehow I've just never managed to enjoy any of the EBRs.
Had a Ruger mini 14 for 20 years, managed to put nearly 200(!) rounds thru it.....always worked, just didn't like it either.

I've read extensively on the various AK/AR opinions.
Still just don't fit right.
Now a M97 12 gauge, I do find quite entertaining at the SASS match.

Been trying to work up interest in AR. Went to 'how to build it' class. Nice to be so accessible for modifications.
Tried to gin up interest in building 30/450 style AR. After a year of faunching about choices, gave the lower to a family member for his birthday. Still haven't found satisfaction with AR/AK along with the SKS.

 

[CountryGent]

One thing I'll add; my father has a Krebs custom AK and it is a beauty. They aren't cheap by any definition, but the one he has is fantastic.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Palmetto State recently had summer hunting sales of .308 and 7.62 ARs for under $700 shipped.... most were 18" barreled with Magpul MOE furniture or Keymod or M-Lok. The budget ones had standard mid length furniture and 18" barrels I believe. May want to look for their holiday sales again in a few months? They do have several DPMS compatible parts, and takes SR25 magazines.
Palmetto State Armory (PSA) AR-10: Parts Compatability - Out of Battery

 

[CountryGent]

LOL! An oldie, but a goodie.

 

[GnomishPride]

Huh. Thanks for the heads up, Camo. Like i said, I'm not opposed to ARs, I just want 30 caliber lol.

 

[Alexx1401]

LOL, that was good!!!!

 

[No_Regerts]

Huh. Thanks for the heads up, Camo. Like i said, I'm not opposed to ARs, I just want 30 caliber lol.

I can see where you are coming from. I think the biggest factor is whether you'll band up with others or go it solo. If I were going it solo, I'd know not to try and duke it out with any type of larger element. That would make something like an AR10 or M1A a great choice. Especially if you were going to have to feed yourself with it.

 

[41mag]

Like i said, I'm not opposed to ARs, I just want 30 caliber lol.

my own confusion & incompetence in judging the advantages of the array of choices in the genre, finally was resolved when I traded for a Scout Rifle that despite being a different tool, works fine for my needs.

 

[AK0perator47]

I would say that it really doesn't matter. There are plenty of people selling their WASR-10's reasonably and NPAP as well. The debate over whether or not a round is effective is one that I choose not to discuss. Now truthfully for the important things. First, most AKM variants will last years before the barrel is shot out. The cost of ammunition if you are not reloading is significantly lower than the price of AR ammunition. You can hunt with your AKM and cannot with the AR-15. You also can get spare parts reasonably for an AKM. Forget about the whole 600 yards with an AR and the AK is not capable of it. I can peg steel with iron sights at 450 yards with no problems. Most people can't do that with an AR without an optic. The only thing that matters is if you practice your manual of arms. The AKM only has the dust cover, recoil spring and bolt carrier group to field strip. Now truthfully I also have an AR-15. I am better with it only because I have 23+ years with one. The problem of finding parts if things were to go bad is minimal because there are plenty of AKM's in this country and worst case scenario, there will be enough dead people who had an AR that you can just pick one up. The only thing I would say that you would want to think about npap vs wasr is the wasr is a square receiver. However if you want to put an M4 collapsing stock on either one there are ways to do so.

 

[CamoDeafie]

But with a 7.62 Nato round, one can reach out to 600 yards pretty easily using 180gr bullets and a minimum of 18" barrels..
Other option would be a BM59 build, a bolt action any flavor, lots of then out there for good prices, until you get to wanting high cap magazines (Mossberg MVP 308?)

 

[AK0perator47]

But with a 7.62 Nato round, one can reach out to 600 yards pretty easily using 180gr bullets and a minimum of 18" barrels..
Other option would be a BM59 build, a bolt action any flavor, lots of then out there for good prices, until you get to wanting high cap magazines (Mossberg MVP 308?)

He only wants an AKM variant. So a 308 is not going to work for him.

 

[CamoDeafie]

He only wants an AKM variant. So a 308 is not going to work for him.

In OP yes. Not a lot replies later he does this.

Alright, let's step away from specifically the AK47 and look at any 30 caliber rifle in the price range. I want the barrier penetration of 7.62 over 5.56. I also want that power in a reliable platform with ability to use magazine's. The only reason I specifically brought up the AK47 is for the price point that's really all I've found. I own AR15s. I don't want that anemic 5.56 for my SHTF.

So lets break down his wants
1) $500-600
2) not 5.56
3) minimum of 7.62 cal
4) seems wanting semi auto
5) also high capacity to a degree (20-30rounds)
6) out to 600 yards?( good luck with the X39 round but doable with NATO x51)

Given all that; it does seem like a NATO 7.62X51 is his best option, be it an AR variant, or a CETME clone or build or save up a lot more for a M1A or BM59 or FAL type.

.300 BLK supersonic from a 16" barrel may be doable but again thats similar to an x39 performance right?

 

[AK0perator47]

In OP yes. Not a lot replies later he does this.


So lets break down his wants
1) $500-600
2) not 5.56
3) minimum of 7.62 cal
4) seems wanting semi auto
5) also high capacity to a degree (20-30rounds)
6) out to 600 yards?( good luck with the X39 round but doable with NATO x51)

Given all that; it does seem like a NATO 7.62X51 is his best option, be it an AR variant, or a CETME clone or build or save up a lot more for a M1A or BM59 or FAL type.

.300 BLK supersonic from a 16" barrel may be doable but again thats similar to an x39 performance right?

The reason why he did say that he was into the 30 cal and stepping away from discussing the AK is based on the response that everyone was telling him to just go get an AR-15 because they are cheap. So, he clarified that by letting everyone know that he doesn't want anything in 556.
Actually 600 yards with x39 is very doable. If I wanted to have my Arsenal have an optic to be able to hit 600 yards I would put one on it and do just that. I am a firm believer in establishing a great foundation prior to using an optic. I have the optic on my AR-15 but that's because of my experience with the platform.

 

[tbs1684]

I've had NPAPs and WASRs before and never had issues with either. The fit and finish on both are pretty similar, if you watch Rob Ski's channel (AK Operator's Union) he likes both of them for entry level rifles, I'd say go with whatever's cheaper at the time and put it towards optics or whatever you want. One thing to consider is the WASR uses standard AK furniture whereas the NPAP uses special Yugo furniture so you may run into problems down the line if you wanna change out handguards or stocks, not that that'll probably be an issue though.

And for any other 7.62 caliber semi-auto rifles, I haven't shot a Century CETME clone but I've looked at them, and the fit/finish is also pretty rough, plus I've heard of a few people having reliability issues. On top of that, my PTR-91 which I have shot and is pretty much the same gun kicks like a bear compared to other 308s and is darn heavy, plus it dents the hell out of brass so you can't reload that pricey 308 ammo.

 

[AK0perator47]

On top of that, my PTR-91 which I have shot and is pretty much the same gun kicks like a bear compared to other 308s and is darn heavy, plus it dents the hell out of brass so you can't reload that pricey 308 ammo.

Good to know. I almost got one. The weight of a 308 rifle is all relative and expected for me. But the dents and recoil are not worth it for me.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

The bolt and bolt carrier group on the Npaps seems a bit soft.. But the Npaps ade prettt accurate. Ive had wasrs too that were not bad.

Npaps have every after market part on the market now that wasrs do.

For me it comes down to the dust cover and trust of metallurgy within the BCG of the Npap.

I feel with one extra part (DC detent and spring) its just one more thing that could hinder needed take down for maintenance and jams in SHTF. Even if its still stays on and does work without the detent.. Less parts is better.

The metal, to me the Npap line seemed to have a much softer bolt and carrier. Certainly isn't "stainless" have had parts on two rust with ease.. And I keep these rifles cleaned, and oiled.. (Greased if stored) and still got some rust (when not greased for storage).

Also technically optic mounts would be statistically more common for the wasrs than the Npaps.. So if you wanted a scope mount but didnt have one, you'd be more likely to find one that fit a wasr and alike ak variants.

Npaps are different.

So for me, the wasr.

 

[Camelfilter]

...But the dents and recoil are not worth it for me.

Don't let either weigh too heavily on your decision.

Roller block brass cleans up surprisingly well...I've pics up here somewhere of some nasty nasty NASTY! looking PTR91 brass I cleaned up.

As to the ejection port dent, that can be mitigated with an ejection port buffer for about $30. Plus to the port buffer it also reduces the distance ejected markedly.

As to recoil...meh. They have a little kick, but if I can handle it being a waaay out if shape woos, I really can't imagine whom couldn't. Course that is extremely subjective, so understandable.

...but I can handle our PTR paratrooper just fine (collapsing stock, so yeah there's some kick!). Less kick with the full size standard stock rifle.

 

[GnomishPride]

Well, it wouldn't matter to me. I lack the funds to start reloading, hahaha.

 

[nfield4]

Hard to beat a Wasr. Value for the price.

 

[etrain16]

@GnomishPride Since it appears you're open to other than AK's, and you want .30 cal - you can get an AR in .308 for darn close to your budget through Palmetto State Armory - either buy the upper and lower separate, or a complete rifle. They have a fully built .308 right now for $699 - which is a great price on an AR in .308 (that price is today only) They also have a complete lower for $179 and a complete upper with BCG for $399 - that's only $578!! (plus shipping and transfer, of course), for a complete .308 AR

Here are the links for the today-only prices I noted:

PSA Gen2 PA10 18" Mid-Length .308 WIN Stainless Steel Lightweight M-Lok Rifle with ACS-L & Overmolded Grip - 516446798

PSA Gen2 PA-10 MOE EPT Lower With Overmolded Grip - 516446483

PSA Gen2 PA10 18" Midlength .308 WIN 1:10 Stainless Steel 15" M-lok Upper - with BCG and CH -516446791