The unanswerable, 7.62 vs 5.56

[Nwcid]

I know this is a fully subjective question and I keep going in circles trying to make a choice so I thought I would ask for others opinions.

Lets assume that a person has 2 AR's available that are set up essentially the same with LPVO, light, silencer, stocks, barrel length, etc and overall weight but one is 7.62x51 (.308) and the other in 5.56 (.223) which one do you choose for daily use, bug out, SHTF, travel, etc? Neither would be likely to see ranges longer than 300 yards, unless things have gone real bad.

I really want to lean toward the .308 not for range but for ballistics, especially penetration. Even in a close up, urban environment, the .308 turns what is cover from .223 into concealment.
Magazine size and ammo weight is a consideration, magazine is 25rds vs 30rd, but total ammo weight is about 2x for the same number of rounds. Load out with either set up would be 1 mag in gun, 2 mag on belt and 6 mag pouch. So that is 225 rds vs 270 rds, in all reality if even 1 mag gets used it is a really bad day.

There is ample ammo readily available for each and in 5.56 there is 55gr ]M855, 55gr ballistic tip and 62gr SS109, in .308 there is 150gr Nato, 150gr hunting BT and 168gr CT BT.

My real dilemma comes in while traveling. My wife will have her "regular" AR in the RV along with having my AR pistol that rides in our UTV with ample magazines for both, so it is mostly a logics issue.

So I think the real question out of all of this, becomes, is it worth the little bit of logistics issue to have 2 different caliber guns for the advantage in ballistics/penetration?

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[osprey]

Are you a full time traveller? I would think the only time a 308 would be needed would be in times of intense unrest in which case bugging in is the answer for most. If you do indeed need to be mobile during unrest the weight of ammo and platforms will be a concern and should lead you to an answer.

 

[Aero Denezol]

Neither would be likely to see ranges longer than 300 yards, unless things have gone real bad.

For the specific situation you are describing, 5.56 any day all-day.

 

[Nwcid]

Are you a full time traveller? I would think the only time a 308 would be needed would be in times of intense unrest in which case bugging in is the answer for most. If you do indeed need to be mobile during unrest the weight of ammo and platforms will be a concern and should lead you to an answer.

We travel about 6 months out of the year. If things were to turn terrible, the goal would be to get home.

 

[Will_White]

I know this is a fully subjective question and I keep going in circles trying to make a choice so I thought I would ask for others opinions.

Lets assume that a person has 2 AR's available that are set up essentially the same with LPVO, light, silencer, stocks, barrel length, etc and overall weight but one is 7.62x51 (.308) and the other in 5.56 (.223) which one do you choose for daily use, bug out, SHTF, travel, etc? Neither would be likely to see ranges longer than 300 yards, unless things have gone real bad.

I really want to lean toward the .308 not for range but for ballistics, especially penetration. Even in a close up, urban environment, the .308 turns what is cover from .223 into concealment.
Magazine size and ammo weight is a consideration, magazine is 25rds vs 30rd, but total ammo weight is about 2x for the same number of rounds. Load out with either set up would be 1 mag in gun, 2 mag on belt and 6 mag pouch. So that is 225 rds vs 270 rds, in all reality if even 1 mag gets used it is a really bad day.

There is ample ammo readily available for each and in 5.56 there is 55gr ]M855, 55gr ballistic tip and 62gr SS109, in .308 there is 150gr Nato, 150gr hunting BT and 168gr CT BT.

My real dilemma comes in while traveling. My wife will have her "regular" AR in the RV along with having my AR pistol that rides in our UTV with ample magazines for both, so it is mostly a logics issue.

So I think the real question out of all of this, becomes, is it worth the little bit of logistics issue to have 2 different caliber guns for the advantage in ballistics/penetration?

308 has the advantage for hunting, I'd keep it around in your RV but for everything else, I'd standardize on one caliber/mag.

 

[Nwcid]

For the specific situation you are describing, 5.56 any day all-day.

Even considering the difference in what .308 will do vs 5.56 to vehicles and other barriers?

 

[Nwcid]

308 has the advantage for hunting, I'd keep it around in your RV but for everything else, I'd standardize on one caliber/mag.

Yes, typically the long guns stay in the RV. When we are out riding the EDC and AR pistol are in the UTV.

 

[CamoDeafie]

To throw a real wrench in the debate...

Some NIJ "Level 3" plates cannot stand up to M193 55gr FMJs from 20" rifle barrels; and some cannot stand up to the military M855A1 EPR ammo (different from the standard SS109/M855 ammo), these are usually either steel or PolyEthylene hard armor; but the NIJ Level 3 protocol stops standard M80 ball ammo (7.62x51) going at standard speeds at 15 meters.

And this is not even going against the relatively exotic M955 tungsten core armor piercing 5.56 ammo, which I think may also defeat ceramic NIJ Level 4 in some circumstances. (It's supposed to be proof against at least one steel core AP2 30-06 ammo). I do know the WW2 German tungsten core armor piercing 8mm Mauser ammo did test and penetrated NIJ certified Level 4 ceramics at 15 meters.

It's basically a blunt knife versus an ice pick.

 

[spookshack]

In what scenario(s) would you imagine needing the penetration and ballistic advantage of the .308? How often do you feel that a scenario(s) would actually present itself? Figure that out and you'll have your answer…..

 

[Nwcid]

In what scenario(s) would you imagine needing the penetration and ballistic advantage of the .308? How often do you feel that a scenario(s) would actually present itself? Figure that out and you'll have your answer…..

The answer is hopefully never. But with the current state of the world, mob type attacks when you are in the wrong spot at the wrong time and many involve vehicles. Unless I am missing something, .308 does a lot better job on all parts of a vehicle than 5.56.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Dead is dead.
I have seen and caused death with both 7.62x51 and 5.56.
Vehicle and human don't receive either bullets in either caliber very well.

Which do you like better....?
Go with that.
Andy

 

[Will_White]

For Walkabouts, a PCC that shares mags with your EDC is just as practically capable as a full size rifle. Mobs aren't going to be wearing body armor, most protesters don't even wear basic PPE.

 

[CamoDeafie]

For Walkabouts, a PCC that shares mags with your EDC is just as practically capable as a full size rifle. Mobs aren't going to be wearing body armor, most protesters don't even wear basic PPE.

Depends on the mob a mob of police officers? Well........

 

[Will_White]

Depends on the mob a mob of police officers? Well........

Zombieland rules.

 

[Richo877]

For practicality, 5.56 with the right ammo can do anything .308 can do within 300yds. The ammo weight is a huge factor, but also consider cost and availability. Another factor is the gun itself. The AR is a great modular rifle with a plethora of options, accessories, and interchangeable parts between all manufacturers of mil-spec AR-15. The AR10 or M5 platform and other .308 AR style rifles are not compatible and often require parts exclusively made for that gun, in which case, you'd be limiting your option of compatibility for replacement parts. That, and the gun itself is going to be bigger and heavier, longer receiver, bigger buffer, and longer barrel (unless you've got a 16" .308 barrel, then I'd say you wasted your time). Overall, 5.56 every time. I'd go with .308 for long range applications where necessary.

 

[Richo877]

For practicality, 5.56 with the right ammo can do anything .308 can do within 300yds. The ammo weight is a huge factor, but also consider cost and availability. Another factor is the gun itself. The AR is a great modular rifle with a plethora of options, accessories, and interchangeable parts between all manufacturers of mil-spec AR-15. The AR10 or M5 platform and other .308 AR style rifles are not compatible and often require parts exclusively made for that gun, in which case, you'd be limiting your option of compatibility for replacement parts. That, and the gun itself is going to be bigger and heavier, longer receiver, bigger buffer, and longer barrel (unless you've got a 16" .308 barrel, then I'd say you wasted your time). Overall, 5.56 every time. I'd go with .308 for long range applications where necessary.

And recoil for that matter. If for any reason you had to unload 100-200 rounds of .308, you're not going to have great follow up or be able to use your strong arm for much else...

 

[militarycollec]

5.56 keyholes at 500yds but it still packs a wallop. 7.62x39 has ballistics similar to a 30-30 lever action good for deer or similar weights but drops fairly quickly. 5.56 covers both short and long range, in my world.

 

[Richo877]

5.56 keyholes at 500yds but it still packs a wallop. 7.62x39 has ballistics similar to a 30-30 lever action good for deer or similar weights but drops fairly quickly. 5.56 covers both short and long range, in my world.

The caliber in question is 7.62x51 (.308 win)

 

[militarycollec]

thanks for all

 

[The Heretic]

In my "arsenal" (the MSM would certainly count it as an arsenal), 5.56 is for "daily" use in a SHTF situation.

Indeed, while I have 5.56 (and 7.62x39) self-defense rifles, I would likely instead go with my PS90 & Five Seven for those situations where I don't consider the need for an armed response to be common and/or imminent. E.G., where I am tending a garden or to livestock, gathering/foraging food/water, etc. - which IMO would be most of the time.

In a SHTF situation, where I have bugged in (at my rural home), a 5.56 rifle would be posted at a stationary/static position, while a PS90/Five Seven combo would be what my family carries while walking around tending to chores, or even walking around just checking on stuff outside. This combo is a niche one, intended just for those "behind the lines" purposes - I hope my family would be located "behind the lines" as we are not physical conditioned or trained/experienced otherwise.

For longer "effective" ranges (more than 300 meters) or where I am likely to need to penetrate soft/light armor, then 7.62x51 would be my choice. For some scenarios, having one DMR in 7.62x51 (or higher caliber) might be a good choice for "overwatch" or situation where a heavier caliber would be useful.