SHTF GPS

[edslhead]

They would still work as long as you had power to them? The sat signals wouldn't go down?

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[The Heretic]

They?

The personal receivers or the satellites.

The satellites would work for a while, if their ground control went offline. But their accuracy would decrease day by day? IIRC, their clocks need to be updated or synch'd almost daily? Also they drift in their orbit so they need to be adjusted for that. I think both adjustments are managed by ground stations?

It would take quite the SHTF event for that to happen though; a lot of the military and the infrastructure of the USA depends on GPS. Airlines, marine traffic, truck traffic, trains, and even the power grid. Anything that needs precise time signals often depends on GPS. So GPS would be very high on the list for the government to keep running, especially in time of war or disaster.

 

[Certaindeaf]

What you really need is a Hostess truck tracker.. or just follow the roads..

 

[Camelfilter]

Compass.

Not a phone compass, you know like with a pointy thing that's kinda magnetic in oil.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

I'd have next to zero faith in GPS if society went down; would have to verify with known points each day.

Maps always will be s good investment; Blue Ram!

 

[Stomper]

I'd have next to zero faith in GPS if society went down; would have to verify with known points each day.

Maps always will be s good investment; Blue Ram!

The old ways are still the best ways... no batteries required, either.

 

[edslhead]

They?

The personal receivers or the satellites.

The satellites would work for a while, if their ground control went offline. But their accuracy would decrease day by day? IIRC, their clocks need to be updated or synch'd almost daily? Also they drift in their orbit so they need to be adjusted for that. I think both adjustments are managed by ground stations?

It would take quite the SHTF event for that to happen though; a lot of the military and the infrastructure of the USA depends on GPS. Airlines, marine traffic, truck traffic, trains, and even the power grid. Anything that needs precise time signals often depends on GPS. So GPS would be very high on the list for the government to keep running, especially in time of war or disaster.

Thats what I was wondering. If the sats were stand alone.
I looked it up and it sounds like their good for 180 days without any outside control.

 

[HB of CJ]

In a major EMP or possibly CME SHTF event, the GPS satellites would quickly fail like already said better before me. Any and all electronical gadgets or needful things probably also would fail. If it has a micro chip it will probably fail. If it does not have a micro chip but has a big antennae, it may fail.

In a big EMP attack, any antennae lead longer than about 3 feet MAY fail. Do not count any more upon GPS surviving than you would cell phones, grid electricity. VHS, UHF television, AM and possibly FM radio stations and maybe even non protected various ham transmitters and receivers with long leads.

Except for expecting everything electronical to fail, everything is fine. Remember that cell and land line phone systems are designed and intended to only provide on line service to less than 5% of the total customer base. Yep. That limited. That vulnerable. That fail easy. When overloaded they quickly fail.

Yikes!

 

[41mag]

expecting everything electronical to fail,

I've wondered about the 'survival radios' with the hand crank etc. Aren't they a silicon based life form of their own? How would they survive EMP if your auto ignition is doomed?

Beyond the EMP effects & loss of food/water supply, as meds dwindle in households across the affected zone(s) there will be a different kind of brown-out. There's bound to be a huge slag-heap left between this side & the other, of our historical time line, should any such event really happen.

 

[11Charlie]

I'll second what stomper said. If and when the SHTF I will be going old school. The less we rely on technology the better off we will be.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Exactly, technology may be all fine and good for people nowadays but with a good map
you can go anywhere becaus it is documented and will NEVER change.
Think about this for a minute, how many new roads are being built nowadays? Very very very few.....

 

[rcnpthfndr]

the other thing to consider is that the military would probably start signal spoofing the satellites to make them less accurate. ever wonder why modern mil gps require a crypto keys to be loaded? a compass and basic navigation IE terrain association would be the most accurate way to go.

 

[ikemay]

Compass.

Not a phone compass, you know like with a pointy thing that's kinda magnetic in oil.

Exactly.

 

[AMProducts]

I think there are some big questions about GPS being asked as of late, and there are some interesting answers. To answer your basic question, I think someone already said 180 days, consider this a verification of that number, beyond that you can have too much drift in the clocks, as well as the orbits.

However, that said, the real looming problem for GPS is spoofing and jamming. The GPS signals are already notoriously weak, operating at ~2ghz from orbit means there's a lot of weather and other effects that can make good enough signal reception difficult. I've had GPS go out many a time due to trees, and even a few times due to really heavy rain.

The bigger problem, in the context of the world, is that GPS is a weak signal, and as digital signal processing and signal generation gets better, it's not only possible to jam, but also possible to spoof GPS which can have some very seriously negative impacts on our society. Here's just one example: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon

However GPS is currently being used as a timing signal for all kinds of life-critical things like synchronizing the power grid, etc. People worry about EMP and all kinds of other "Black Swan" events, it's literally possible for someone with the right skills and expertise to really screw up a lot of things by tampering with GPS in the right places.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think there are some big questions about GPS being asked as of late, and there are some interesting answers. To answer your basic question, I think someone already said 180 days, consider this a verification of that number, beyond that you can have too much drift in the clocks, as well as the orbits.

However, that said, the real looming problem for GPS is spoofing and jamming. The GPS signals are already notoriously weak, operating at ~2ghz from orbit means there's a lot of weather and other effects that can make good enough signal reception difficult. I've had GPS go out many a time due to trees, and even a few times due to really heavy rain.

The bigger problem, in the context of the world, is that GPS is a weak signal, and as digital signal processing and signal generation gets better, it's not only possible to jam, but also possible to spoof GPS which can have some very seriously negative impacts on our society. Here's just one example: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon

However GPS is currently being used as a timing signal for all kinds of life-critical things like synchronizing the power grid, etc. People worry about EMP and all kinds of other "Black Swan" events, it's literally possible for someone with the right skills and expertise to really screw up a lot of things by tampering with GPS in the right places.

This is why plastic Jesus's will come back into fashion.. on the dashboards of self-driving cars.

 

[ATCclears]

the other thing to consider is that the military would probably start signal spoofing the satellites to make them less accurate. ever wonder why modern mil gps require a crypto keys to be loaded? a compass and basic navigation IE terrain association would be the most accurate way to go.

This. After a major SHTF you should assume the military will significantly reduce the accuracy of GPS signals.

 

[AK0perator47]

I'll second what stomper said. If and when the SHTF I will be going old school. The less we rely on technology the better off we will be.

How many of us know how to go old school? Followed by how many teenagers will have a meltdown?

 

[11Charlie]

How many of us know how to go old school? Followed by how many teenagers will have a meltdown?

I can go old school as for the teenagers? Adapt, overcome and survive or Die trying.

 

[cigars]

How many of us know how to go old school? Followed by how many teenagers will have a meltdown?

How many adults will meltdown right alongside them? Lol.

 

[11Charlie]

How many adults will meltdown right alongside them? Lol.

A LOT!!!!