Poll: Should the government make more requirements in order to get a CHL?

[Stomper]

Wow... those are some low stats! How is it that Phoenix is the kidnapping capitol of the USA then? (rhetorical question...LOL)

 

[gogoDawgs]

No evaluation by any government body. We lose control when the gov (feds or state) dictate who may carry.

Check out Alaska and Arizona. Don't need a permit to carry concealed in either. And there is no problem with those that do. In fact, I just returned from both places (Anchorage and Prescott). They both are progressive. Prescott had 85% of the people with CHL's until the law saying they didn't need one went into effect. IN FACT!, Prescott is below the national average. They are at 276 violent crimes per 100,000 against a national average of 676 per 100,000. Check it out, the stats are posted. The only reason a CHL is suggested by AZ is for reciprocity. If one doesn't leave the state, one doesn't need a piece of paper saying the government agrees with your state of mind. No government judgement is needed, is it.

Can you site any of the information you have posted?
You say that Prescott is now below the national average in CHL's since the law went into effect. I find that statement hard to believe. The bill was signed on April 16th and went into effect 90 days following (July 16th). Are you saying that in just 60 days Prescott fell below the national average? How could that be? Aren't CHL's valid for several years?

 

[Jamie6.5]

I think he is saying Prescott is below the nat'l average in violent crime.

IN FACT!, Prescott is below the national average. They are at 276 violent crimes per 100,000 against a national average of 676 per 100,000.

Of course, for many years one of Prescott's largest employers was/is Ruger,...

And that makes all the sense in the world!

 

[Partsproduction]

certified by the international plumbers crack union

No crack smoking union members in my house!

The thing about Phoenix and kidnapping has to do with another more constitutional restriction, or, more correctly, its lack. Phoenix is a sanctuary city and the feds are not enforcing our borders as they should, it's a Mexican invasion thing, not a gun rights thing. Get the Mexicans to go home and that goes away overnight.

 

[hjohnsonjr]

Arizona has had a CHL for a long time. They just enacted a law saying a person didn't need one to carry in the state. Same type of restrictions as a CHL. So the stats are from before the CH law was loosened up.

The stats come from the FBI report "FBI Uniform Crime Rate ". there may be later reports. These reports are readily available.

 

[supergenius]

Luke 22:38 The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords. That is enough," he replied.

Sounds gay to me...

 

[Partsproduction]

Sounds gay to me...

"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." Titus 1:15

I always think of that verse when I hear someone trying to say God's word is wrong somehow. If someone sees evil in those things that are perfect it's because they are totally corrupt and defiled.

 

[gogoDawgs]

Sounds gay to me...

Just insults? No ability to reason or provide logic?

You will find that you persuade none with that tactic.

 

[eriknemily]

"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." Titus 1:15

I always think of that verse when I hear someone trying to say God's word is wrong somehow. If someone sees evil in those things that are perfect it's because they are totally corrupt and defiled.

Well said my friend.

 

[Father of four]

Just insults? No ability to reason or provide logic?

You will find that you persuade none with that tactic.

Well said!

He is just showing us all his true colors. People cant hide them for long. They always come out.

 

[Father of four]

"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." Titus 1:15

I always think of that verse when I hear someone trying to say God's word is wrong somehow. If someone sees evil in those things that are perfect it's because they are totally corrupt and defiled.

Well said also!

 

[Stomper]

No crack smoking union members in my house!

The thing about Phoenix and kidnapping has to do with another more constitutional restriction, or, more correctly, its lack. Phoenix is a sanctuary city and the feds are not enforcing our borders as they should, it's a Mexican invasion thing, not a gun rights thing. Get the Mexicans to go home and that goes away overnight.

PP.... I SAID it was a rhetorical question!!

Of course you supplied the correct answer, but it wasn't required because we already knew it... hence it was rhetorical.

 

[zeezee]

I wasn't trying to specify the Christian God, though it's not far from the truth. I don't think the average person in America in the 1770's knew much about other "gods", I doubt that they would know much about any other God than the God of the bible. The percentage of Catholics and Jews to "Protestants" was probably very markedly in favor of protestants at that time. (The Christian God is the same as the Jewish God, and also the Catholic God)
But the point isn't what God they were talking about but instead that the government must not be involved to any degree in trying to tell Americans what God they worship, whether a Christian God or Hindu or any at all! It is not the governments job to decide what you or I believe.

The real tragedy is the concept that it means somehow that government should stop belief in God, and that is what many people seem to believe today, especially people in the judiciary and education segments of our nation.

Did you read the D.James Kennedy URL I posted? From that it appears that there has been a concerted effort to reinvent Jefferson to be the kind of skeptic you seem to be describing, while the truth is that he was a Sunday school teacher in church! I think you have been lied to.

But my main point is that most people of that day were believers, at the very least a much higher ratio than today, and that is the main reason our country has been so blessed for over two hundred years.

Good post.

 

[zeezee]

Many of the original firearm restrictions were put in place for racist reasons. In the south having to pay registration fees were instituted because racist politicians knew that the blacks couldn't afford the fees. How is having a test any different? Don't you suppose it puts many classes at a disadvantage.
1-you'll end up having to pay for the classes (so, lets see only people with a good paying job can afford this)
2-education level gives certain groups a disadvantage

In my opinion it is somewhat aristocratic to believe we need to institute these laws or requirements. And two last points. How exactly will this make us safer? (like I stated before criminals aren't going to obey these laws and it seems they would be the most likely to break the gun safety rules) Will people that have taken the classes and done a practical application make wiser decisions? Who and how will you decide what to institute the training and practical application (I'm sure the government can concoct some pretty crazy ideas of what is needed)

Don't tell any politicians! They'll see this as a great revenue source and that is all!

Agree. And the price of the class will be added to the owners expense, plus you get your name on uncle sam's list of gun owners. You own a firearm, it is your RIGHT and responsibility to learn to operate it safely and efficiently. We don't need a government to evaluate or to teach us, this is just one more mile down the road to serfdom. Firearms registration, concealed carry permits, hunting license, silencer "tax" and then not being allowed to use it are all unconstitutional. What part of "shall not infringe" do you not understand? Three simple words, but remove those three words as bho has done with the word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence and we have NOTHING!

 

[wawaverider]

If doing this is a safety issue, we need more regulations on drugs, pools and matches. More children die from bottles of prescription drugs laying around overdosing then those who have a gun in their home (one that CHL owner may have), more children drown in rivers and backyard pools than die from a guns being in the home. More children die from fires than accidental discharges/improperly stored guns.

If this is really a safety issue and you don't like some of the more seedy population that can get CHL we need to institute laws where owners of prescription drugs, pools and matches go through properly licensing and classes.

I know this argument is hyperboli, but seriously where does it end? I still don't believe that a good argument has been made concerning who is going to obey such a law, thus how would it make us safer. Sure everyone should educate themselves on the laws, gun safety rules, practice (no point in carrying if you don't practice) but such a restriction (that's what it is) doesn't ensure safety. Many people have weapons in their homes without CHL, do we need to make laws regarding their gun ownership also? If your scared of yahoos wantonly shooting? Aren't you packin with a CHL? you should be able can't to protect yourself from them (not that you would want to)

 

[supergenius]

"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." Titus 1:15

I always think of that verse when I hear someone trying to say God's word is wrong somehow. If someone sees evil in those things that are perfect it's because they are totally corrupt and defiled.

You mean me calling Gods word wrong??? Oh....You mean Jesus', whom YOU chose to call GOD??? You misinterpret... Whats ironic (not wrong) is how those that take it (his word) as their faith for the most part seem to at times stray so far from what he taught... In regards to acceptance tolerance and understanding.

Just insults? No ability to reason or provide logic?

You will find that you persuade none with that tactic.

Im not trying to persuade anyone. Humor. Dark. It is me, actually I dont have any issue with homosexuals either, in fact I support anyone getting l9oved anyway they find it.... OMG, WWJD??? Absolutely nothing, most probably raise a toast to tolerance, acceptance and love. Some of his followers today though??? Ya.

Well said!

He is just showing us all his true colors. People cant hide them for long. They always come out.

LOL.

ID say forgive me for not claiming Jesus as my Lord and savior, however Im not sorry... I would have definitely broke bread with the man 2010 years ago however... And listened to what HE had to say... Interested, and intently, rather than someones interpretation of what they THINK he meant, which they read out of a book 2000 years later.

As for my true colors? LOL. They're just that. True. A free thinking individual thats not afraid to state what he thinks... Just because someone doesn't like it??? Meh, whatever. It rents no space in my head sir(s). I dont see a need to edit myself in that regard.

Ive lived through plenty of garbage to be content grateful of where I am. Do I denounce someone for whatever spirituality they find??? No. I just don't put a name or a face on mine. Its funny, some of the most religious people just dont get that if theyre truly at peace with WHATEVER god they have found... Denouncing someone else for NOT believing in that entity (Perhaps the most annoying in my experience Christians)... Does 0 to promote the faith they have found for themselves.

I suggest you read more of the bible.














For the record, Im not Christian, or anything for that matter... EXCEPT spiritual.

Ponder what that means for a minute.

You are welcome for the 5 minutes out of my life I devoted to you.


Im here for a gun board, not a Catacism class, nor to become a born again.

Thank you.

 

[spengo]

How did we get from whether or not concealed handgun licenses should be harder to get to whether or not Jesus was gay?

Also: drama everywhere! D:

 

[supergenius]

How did we get from whether or not concealed handgun licenses should be harder to get to whether or not Jesus was gay?

Also: drama everywhere! D:

Who said jesus was gay???? WTF?


YouTube - Llama Song (with official MP3)

 

[Partsproduction]

Perhaps you should look elsewhere for forgiveness, you didn't offend me. I just know about the great white throne judgment and it freaks me out when people pass it off so lightly, and I know the day will come when you will remember this conversation and so many more you've likely had and wish fervently that you had listened to what the people around you had said.
As for reading the bible, you have no idea of how many hours many of us spend prayerfully studying, and I can tell you that very early one one will read this;

"The fool hath said in his heart there is no God,," Psalms 14:1

and many places the word says (With some slight variation) "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" Proverbs 9:10

An old hymn familiar to most of us says "Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved". The point is, if you haven't feared the wrath of that only one powerful enough to do what the bible says he will do, you cannot search with the level of desperation you need to find his mercy. No Christian wants anyone to find ****(Eternal judgment), and God wishes all would receive his grace, but people have the right to choose.

I often hear people say of a murderer or rapist etc. "I hope he rots in ****"(Eternal judgment), all I can do is cringe when I hear that.

 

[Partsproduction]

YouTube - Llama Song (with official MP3)

Since we are posting pics of Llamas, here's my latest, lower left;