Shooting double-action - "Don't get cocky"

[CLT65]

I watched an interesting video on youtube, about shooting double-action revolvers. I know this has been discussed here before, so I thought I'd share it.

I've been shooting double-action revolvers for 35+ years, and the vast majority of that time has been cocking the hammer before each shot. I remember a long time ago being told that I should always shoot double-action when shooting a double action revolver. I didn't like that advice, because I preferred the precision of single-action shooting, and just saw double-action as fast and sloppy, like the early law-enforcement attitude in the video.

A few years ago, I decided it was time to learn some proficiency in double-action. I practiced quite a bit, and got surprisingly good at it. I can regularly bust clay targets on the 25 yard berm with my favorite revolvers. Funny thing is, now it just comes natural and I almost never bother cocking the hammer on my fine S&W revolvers that I'd previously been shooting single-action for decades.

I just thought I'd see how many others have also reached this conclusion.

Read More

 

[willz8]

I've been shooting SW revolvers 40 yrs double action , it's just the way i learn at the police range 1980's ..cuz it was timed and scored ..
no way to cock it ... just not enough time for 30 rounds ...
later switched to 9mm ,.. but alway revolver as BUG ..and i shaved off the hammer on the bug so can't cock it anyway..

 

[Bobbygun]

I've gotta confess, the only double action revolver I shoot double action is my S&W 642, because it doesn't have a hammer. My short forays into double action with other revolvers have not been very successful accuracy-wise, and I'm too cheap to waste any more ammunition.

 

[titsonritz]

Sure is nice having the option to do either, it is you own damn fault if you don't make a point to learn how to properly perform both.

 

[oremike]

I should practice this more, I started out with single actions and shoot my double actions the same way.

 

[The Heretic]

It depends on what you are doing.

Are you hunting?

Are you shooting in self-defense?

Are you shooting to determine precision of ammo?

 

[Longwalkhome]

jack weaver - Bing video

www.bing.com

Jack Weaver - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Bobbygun]

Sure is nice having the option to do either, it is you own damn fault if you don't make a point to learn how to properly perform both.

I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK!

Besides, I do "properly perform" double action. I just can't hit anything. Unless I'm using a laser, but that's another thread.

But you are correct. It is my fault. No, wait, it's Trump's fault!

 

[Certaindeaf]

It depends on what you are doing.

Are you hunting?

Are you shooting in self-defense?

Are you shooting to determine precision of ammo?

Long time PPC competitor yada.. yes to all of the above and I only shoot DA.

 

[willz8]

DA is a skill..
it's not free..
cost some ammo
but dry fire can help a bit..not the same..
once you master it.. it only needs a little refresh now and then.

think any sport etc.
either you want it or not so much..
hope you don't need it
miss by 1/2 inch is same as a mile.
it's 2 points or air ball. ..get it ?

life or ? paper don't shoot back in SA
that why there's PPC. it's timed..
hard truth. that's my 2 cents
or ammo your choice want or not
sorry to be blunt, i'm just old

 

[WAYNO]

I shoot revolvers often. On my DA revolvers, I practice both DA and SA, for different reasons.

And on my remaining SA/DA pistols, mostly SIG's, I practice my first shot DA, with subsequent shots, SA.

 

[The Heretic]

I shoot revolvers often. On my DA revolvers, I practice both DA and SA, for different reasons.

Most of my semis are DA/SA as are all of my revolvers.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You do as you train/have been trained. I don't have to make decisions when to cock, un-cock, or to not.. more attention can be paid to external events.

 

[KennVFRidr]

I've been shooting double-action revolvers for 35+ years, and the vast majority of that time has been cocking the hammer before each shot. I remember a long time ago being told that I should always shoot double-action when shooting a double action revolver. I didn't like that advice, because I preferred the precision of single-action shooting

Me too...(almost 30 years)...but, after acquiring a new S&W Mod 610 I decided I wanted to REALLY learn how to shoot it properly.

After a bit of research I decided to just start dry firing to build muscle memory and gain sight control. I started watching this series of video's...

...from GunBlue490 on YouTube. The video's are a bit slow, but the old school info seems legitimate.

Anyone else have thoughts on his stuff?

 

[CLT65]

One of the reasons why I put off learning to shoot double action for so long was just stubbornness. An acquaintance who long ago told me that I should shoot double action only was insistent and a bit condescending.

My reaction was "Oh yeah? It's my gun; I'll shoot it however I darn well please."

I still feel that way in principle, nothing wrong with shooting in single action. I still do once in a while, especially when trying to ring steel at a hundred yards, or wring the very best accuracy out of a new load, from sandbags.

The interesting part of learning was how accurate I could be, and how comfortable I got with it.

 

[OldBroad44]

Me too...(almost 30 years)...but, after acquiring a new S&W Mod 610 I decided I wanted to REALLY learn how to shoot it properly.

After a bit of research I decided to just start dry firing to build muscle memory and gain sight control. I started watching this series of video's...

...from GunBlue490 on YouTube. The video's are a bit slow, but the old school info seems legitimate.

Anyone else have thoughts on his stuff?

@KennVFRidr -- YES!!! Every bit of this is right. Some of it I've never seen in print before but figured out myself. For example, using the joint rather than the finger pad on the trigger for DA shooting. That's necessary even with much used pre-lock K and L frame Smiths that have beautifully smooth light DA triggers. Even where the DA trigger is so nice that finger strength is no issue, I find it much easier to control the direction of the trigger squeeze to straight back through the entire long DA trigger pull if my finger joint engages the trigger rather than my finger pad. And even more so with my Ruger Super Redhawk, which has a smooth but much heavier DA trigger than my Smiths. And skinny triggers with rounded edges are by far best for DA shooting.

I also agree that the thumb needs to be clamped hard on the revolver grip for DA shooting, not in a higher position. And not lightly placed. Otherwise the gun tends to get pulled off during the DA trigger squeeze. With a heavy revolver I actually need the thumb and entire hand clamped hard on the gun just to hold it up. Note that in sighting a magnum revolver under bench rest conditions, there is a temptation to change your grip. With heavy recoiling handguns changing your grip alters the amount of gun movement in recoil, which can affect the point of aim. I use exactly the same grip firing SA or DA, with or without support.

I agree with the emphasis on shooting one-handed too. Its a lot of fun to shoot from the hip DA with one hand bringing the gun up no higher than about waist high. For revolvers with traditional barrels this is easiest to do with guns that have a muzzle heavy balance so your hand knows exactly where the muzzle is. For guns with standard barrels you need at least a 5 or 6 inch barrel. For my edc, Buddy, a snubby SW 686 .357 mag with an under-lugged barrel, even the snubby barrel version is nice and muzzle heavy and pleasant to shoot with any load. At 36 oz unloaded, it's heavier than many would choose for an edc. But I can't shoot guns lighter than about 32 oz at all well. And I find the weight of Buddy reassuring. I think point shooting is also more natural for me with one hand and gun extended off to side than two handed. And it lends itself much better to taking full advantage of cover.

One point I figured out that the video does but doesn't mention is the release phase of the DA trigger squeeze is actually not a release. You control the trigger as you are squeezing and as it moves back into starting position after the shot is fired. Think of it as a follow through as in batting or throwing a ball.

These days DA is my default. All SD drills and all shooting fast at any distance is DA. So if I were hunting deer out to about 25yards, I would shoot DA so I could lift gun and fire in one swift motion with no click noise that spooks the deer. At 50 yards on a stationary deer I would use SA but any followup shot would be DA. If the deer was walking I'd shoot DA. If its moving faster than walking its beyond my pay grade at 50 yards. Between about 60 and 75 yards I need SA.

I switched to DA revolvers for SD after the first time I had to point a gun at someone and hold it on him until he took further action that warranted shooting him (either showed a weapon or finished climbing in the window (so the body would be inside) or changed his mind. I had a .22 semiauto. (He changed his mind.) Training held true. I had no doubts about killing the guy or when to start firing. However there was a surge of adrenalin, and with me that causes greater strength, and the result was I couldn't tell how hard I needed to pull the trigger for the gun to go off. Very disconcerting. I experienced two other situations in my life where I had to hold a gun on someone that way--one where I accidentally interrupted a burglary and the guy charged me, the other another home invasion. By then I had DA revolvers, had mastered DA mode, and used only DA revolvers for SD or carry.

Anything that needs to be fast I do DA. Sure, if you are starting from drawing or lifting the gun, you can cock it on the way to getting the gun on target so with practice the first shot can be fired just as fast SA as DA. And for revolvers wuth significant recoil they can be cocked as coming back on target after recoil. This is why there are plenty of oldtimers who happily use SA revolvers for SD. However, in my experience for optimal speed shooting DA the gun fires when its actually still in motion. So accuracy requires timing the trigger squeeze so the gun fires at the right time. I find it a lot easier to get the timing right with a DA trigger squeeze than SA one. However it breaks another rule. With the DA trigger squeeze , I DO know exactly when the gun is going to go off.

Its gloriously easy to master pulling the trigger if you have a laser on the gun. And with laser cartridges, you can practice everything except the recoil indoors and without using up spendy ammo. Alas, Amazon has been out of .38/.357 or .44 laser cartridges for quite a while.

 

[dangerranger60]

My EDC is a DAO 642. I can shoot it well out to around 30 yards. Beyond that I want that single action trigger pull. I can shoot a 4" model 66 S&W out past 50 yards using the SA trigger pull.
I personally like the Centennial J frames with their shrouded hammer. It is both DASA, and snag free out of a pocket.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Killed my first deer with a Smith&wesson when Oregon opened deer hunting with a handgun.

 

[washagonian]

Becoming proficient in shooting revolvers in DA, REALLY helped me learn to control the firearm, which transferred over to my auto pistols, especially DA/SA - but also striker fired.

Rob Leatham has preached for years that the key to hitting the target isn't aiming, it's "not moving the gun" while your pulling the trigger.

As I successfully mastered the long pull of a DA revolver and then increased the shot tempo while still being accurate, I found that I became a better shooter because I wasn't moving the gun during the trigger pull.

It is a perishable skill, and if I go for awhile without shooting my revolvers and then take one to the range - I suck for about 50 rounds.

 

[kopcicle]

I suck for about 50 rounds.

What a wonderful reason for expending 50 rounds down range!

The first ten years.
Huntsman
Woodsman
Hi-Standard B
44-40 SAA
1911
P35
30 carbine Blackhawk
44 Blackhawk.

See a trend here?

The next ten years.
Security six
27
29
25-5
25-2
59-2*
P9R*

Notice the change? It didn't happen all at once and didn't go well at first.
I was fortunate in that the Ruger was the first DA I owned. Not that it was a bad trigger. It was a difficult trigger to master. If I had owned the S&W's first I'm sure I would have been spoiled.

I included the 59 and the P9R crunch-n-tickers because of the DA first shot.
FÉGARMY Arms Factory of Hungary copied the S&W lock work and not surprisingly got it right. Actually, better than right. I'll come clean about why I despise S&W auto pistols one day, just not today.

I'm much the same as anyone I suspect. Of all my shooting skills to erode, double action off hand is the first to go. Unlike most other people it's also the first to come back. I usually have one characteristic fault to correct and I'm back saddle.
It has to do with muscle memory and timing. My double action pull is one speed.
It isn't that it's fast or slow it's that it never varies. If I slow down and try to cheat the sear, I'm awful. If I speed up and try to overwhelm the sear, I'm worse.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Lighten up for control. At some point the trigger pull becomes part of the sight picture and you're on your way.


Until the next time you allow your skills to degrade.