Shame on you pierce county sheriff!

[svxr8dr]

Then the Constitution is dead. The 4th amendment is dead.

+1

 

[riverrat373]

I want an ID check before you can buy groceries - Not just coffee - How about that commies?

:huh:We are commies because we don't agree with you?:huh:

 

[Will]

Like it or not open carry in metro areas gets the attention of the people who live there and they call 911. If you want to open carry then expect LEO contact, it's not a big deal as they are responsing to the concern of another person. Showing your ID is a simple thing to do and would have made this a none issue. This guy wanted to make the news plain and simple. All the LEO's were doing was checking if this guy should have a loaded firearm in public, it's due dilengence to what I expect was a 911 call. If they just blew it off and this guy was a nut job who opened fire on a bunch of people how would that play out?

Again it would have been over in minutes if this guy would have showed his ID, instead he took a limited resource (LEO) off line to get his 15 minutes. I don't know what point this guy was trying to make, I do know LEO's have a tough job and making it harder doen't help anyone.

My 2C

 

[clearconscience]

I'm with the cops on this one. They have every right to make sure the public is safe. That's their job. If they see a guy with a gun, they should ask for your ID and CHL, if you have both then they should say thanks and let you be on your way.
If he tries to give you a hard time then he's in the wrong, but if your giving the LEO a hard time for checking your ID and making sure you have a CHL then your just a fool. Your the reason people want to take our rights away. You give us a bad name. We have the right, but we shouldn't give a system that wants us under rule any more reasons to take away our rights.

I will smile and say yes sir, yes maam, as long as I have the right to keep my gun.

Bottom line, if you open carry you need to be able to deal with the pressure your going to get.

 

[Tactical SS]

Like it or not open carry in metro areas gets the attention of the people who live there and they call 911. If you want to open carry then expect LEO contact, it's not a big deal as they are responsing to the concern of another person. Showing your ID is a simple thing to do and would have made this a none issue. This guy wanted to make the news plain and simple. All the LEO's were doing was checking if this guy should have a loaded firearm in public, it's due dilengence to what I expect was a 911 call. If they just blew it off and this guy was a nut job who opened fire on a bunch of people how would that play out?

Again it would have been over in minutes if this guy would have showed his ID, instead he took a limited resource (LEO) off line to get his 15 minutes. I don't know what point this guy was trying to make, I do know LEO's have a tough job and making it harder doen't help anyone.

My 2C

Make that 4 cents.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I do know LEO's have a tough job and making it harder doen't help anyone.

I just simply dont care....

Most of us have very tough jobs with very little reward, and there's always some a-hole waiting around the corner to make things harder on you.

If an LEO stops and hassles you for a little piece of mind, then reciprocating the hassle for a little piece of mind is fair game.

 

[Tactical SS]

I just simply dont care....

So why should they care about disturbing you?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

So why should they care about disturbing you?

If an LEO stops and hassles you for a little piece of mind, then reciprocating the hassle for a little piece of mind is fair game.

They dont care..... Thus we have this thread.

 

[Tactical SS]

They dont care..... Thus we have this thread.

But why should they? If they are not all high and mighty, as has been stated many times, how can we hold them to higher standards?

 

[MrNiceGuy]

But why should they? If they are not all high and mighty, as has been stated many times, how can we hold them to higher standards?

I never said they should be held to higher standards.... that's your own fantasy.

What I said was quite clear... let me post it again for you.

If an LEO stops and hassles you for a little piece of mind, then reciprocating the hassle for a little piece of mind is fair game.

I'm an equal opportunity a-hole.

 

[riverrat373]

I just simply dont care....

Most of us have very tough jobs with very little reward, and there's always some a-hole waiting around the corner to make things harder on you.

If an LEO stops and hassles you for a little piece of mind, then reciprocating the hassle for a little piece of mind is fair game.

You simply don't care? Pretty selfish attitude in my book. You have a tough job? Do you face the prospect day in and day out that your job may get you shot? Get real!

 

[Tactical SS]

I never said they should be held to higher standards.... that's your own fantasy.

What I said was quite clear... let me post it again for you.



I'm an equal opportunity a-hole.

I never said you stated it, I said it's been said.

It doesn't matter how many times you post it, you are saying what you do in return, not why they should even care in the first place.

We clearly aren't getting anywhere.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

You simply don't care? Pretty selfish attitude in my book. You have a tough job? Do you face the prospect day in and day out that your job may get you shot? Get real!

Death threats happen.
There are 3 bullet holes in my building, 1 of them is left un patched as a reminder of the hazards of the job..... And I dont even get P.E.R.S.

If the police and I dont care about each others hardships, then it's not selfish, it's fair game.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I never said you stated it, I said it's been said.

blah blah blah

We clearly aren't getting anywhere.

That usually happens when you ask someone to defend views and comments that are not their own.

 

[BigNickShooting]

"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious."

...Sun Tzu

You need to see this ...

The Largest Street Gang in America Video by BoilingFrogs - MySpace Video

 

[Will]

I just simply dont care....

Most of us have very tough jobs with very little reward, and there's always some a-hole waiting around the corner to make things harder on you.

If an LEO stops and hassles you for a little piece of mind, then reciprocating the hassle for a little piece of mind is fair game.

I respect your thought and been there/am there. I think it's a difference in prospective. You can let that a-hole get to you or you can blow it off and be the better man. As I see it life is full of a-holes, how I deal with them is up to me. I can try and change the a-hole (that won't happen) or I can do what I can to limit the time I have to be in that moment in time and enjoy the rest of my day/life with people I enjoy.

Piece of mind compared to Peace of mind....it is truly prospective

 

[BigNickShooting]

Sir ... I totally agree with you. Maybe you shall watch this movie:

The Largest Street Gang in America Video by BoilingFrogs - MySpace Video

After that, you will probably agree with the fact that we are slowly transforming into a Police state, and very soon, if we continue to go in this direction, we will reach communism or maybe even dictatorship. But you also have to consider another thing ... America was built with a whip in one hand and a gun in the other ...

I would like to get your name and phone number to keep it in my pocket in case I ever have encounters with LEO like our friend had. Kudos to you ...

And I think the guy who calls himself Rivverrat is (or was) part of the LEO's ...

 

[BigNickShooting]

Like it or not open carry in metro areas gets the attention of the people who live there and they call 911. If you want to open carry then expect LEO contact, it's not a big deal as they are responsing to the concern of another person. Showing your ID is a simple thing to do and would have made this a none issue. This guy wanted to make the news plain and simple. All the LEO's were doing was checking if this guy should have a loaded firearm in public, it's due dilengence to what I expect was a 911 call. If they just blew it off and this guy was a nut job who opened fire on a bunch of people how would that play out?

Again it would have been over in minutes if this guy would have showed his ID, instead he took a limited resource (LEO) off line to get his 15 minutes. I don't know what point this guy was trying to make, I do know LEO's have a tough job and making it harder doen't help anyone.

My 2C

Nobody called 911 in this situation ... And they couldn't say his weapon was loaded or not ... And the LEO was in plainclothes, maybe even off duty ... still he called 3 other LEO who were on duty and uniformed to harass the guy ...

 

[clearconscience]

It really just boils down to if you like/respect Law Enforcement or not. If you don't then your response to them trying to enforce the laws will be met with resistance, if you respect them then you show them respect and usually get more in return.

Either way if you put up resistance then you will get it 10 fold, and probably end up getting arrested, or even run the chance of getting your right to carry a firearm taken away. If you want to take that risk to "prove a point" then go right ahead. But don't complain and cry when it happens.

You know darn well your most likely going to get hassled if you open carry, so that's the decision you make. But guess what genus, you live in a liberal state and it's not going to change. You and your one man army aren't going to change the minds of people in power who don't give two turds about you. So you can rant and rave all you want, but you brought the questioning on yourself, because you feel like resisting a system that will not budge to you, will not change because of you, and will never care what you think.

Personally I will conceal my carry, and never give anyone any reason to take my CHL. If I am harassed, then I will do as they say and consult my lawyer to challenge the Law Enforcement Agency that offended my rights.
I will not fight fire with fire, I will not go to battle in fatigues. I will fight my war wearing a pressed suit, and instead of popping off lead I will recite law. So the next LEO will not make the same mistake.

 

[alienbogey]

Boy, I am absolutely astonished at some of the posts here. Perhaps I'm naive, or I have too high an expectation of the - how shall I say it - rights consciousness of the firearms owning community. I'll pick out one post for a few observations.

I'm with the cops on this one. They have every right to make sure the public is safe. That's their job. If they see a guy with a gun, they should ask for your ID and CHL, if you have both then they should say thanks and let you be on your way.
If he tries to give you a hard time then he's in the wrong, but if your giving the LEO a hard time for checking your ID and making sure you have a CHL then your just a fool. Your the reason people want to take our rights away. You give us a bad name. We have the right, but we shouldn't give a system that wants us under rule any more reasons to take away our rights.

I will smile and say yes sir, yes maam, as long as I have the right to keep my gun.

Bottom line, if you open carry you need to be able to deal with the pressure your going to get.

<<I'm with the cops on this one. They have every right to make sure the public is safe.>>

No, they do not have the right to keep the public safe, they have the job of keeping the public safe, and the obligation by law to do so without violating the rights of the citizens that comprise the public.

<<If they see a guy with a gun, they should ask for your ID and CHL,>>

No problem, they can ask for your ID, but they cannot demand
it absent a reasonable, articulable suspicion that a crime is about to be or is being committed. (Note: In WA, by statute they can require a citizen to show their concealed license if that person is concealing a pistol)

<<If he tries to give you a hard time then he's in the wrong, but if your giving the LEO a hard time for checking your ID and making sure you have a CHL then your just a fool.>>

That's simply an opinion. My opinion regarding the incident in question (after listening to the recording) is that the OC'er did not give the LEO's a hard time, he respectfully tried to exercise is right under the law to not produce ID.

<<Your the reason people want to take our rights away.>>

A person standing up for his rights is the reason people want to take our rights away? Seriously?

<<We have the right, but we shouldn't give a system that wants us under rule any more reasons to take away our rights.>>

So......in order to keep the 'system' from taking away our rights, we should surrender them in the first place by not standing up for them?

Do folks not see that if we're not willing to stand up for our rights for fear of losing them, they've already been lost?

WRT a couple other posts: Yes, this entire issue concerns the 4th amendment and not the 2nd. Replay the entire incident, but substitute open carrying a chainsaw into the Starbucks instead of a handgun. The LEO's can still ask but not require identification to be produced, the citizen can still decline to produce ID when asked. If the cops insist and the citizen is forced to produce it, the 4th has been violated, it has nothing to do with any other amendment.