Scary bad trigger discipline

sigmadog · Jul 2, 2017

So we have visitors from out of town, one of whom is older and, according to the Missus, he "has been around guns all his life."

Okay. So on Saturday we decide to do some shooting. I bring out my .380 and both my 1911 .45's. We are out on our deck. I pick up the Commander, drop the mag and clear it, then hand it to the old fart.

He doesn't clear it for himself, just grabs it and his finger goes right onto the trigger while pointing it at me. For the next few minutes he talks about all the guns he used to own, all the while sweeping me and the Missus. I'm politely stepping from side to side to avoid the business end.

I had serious doubts at this point.

I collect the gun from him and clear it in front of him. No response from him.

We walk down to our small pistol range and do some shooting. He at least keeps the gun pointed down range at all times (credit where credit is due), though his finger never leaves the trigger. At one point towards the end he has a FTF with the Commander. He stops and looks at me for help. I approach and he starts to hand it to me.

I say sharply, "STOP! Take your finger off the trigger!"

I take the gun from him then. Drop the mag and clear it. Then I reload the round, insert the mag and rack a round into the chamber and, holding the top of the pistol pointing it down range, hand it to him so he can finish the load.

The shoot ended shortly after that.

I personally think the shooting should have never started after what happened on the deck. But here's the thing, I had to roll with it because the guy is my father-in-law. Trust me, I'd rather take a bullet than get my wife all riled up from disrespecting her father (kidding!).

Still, I told the Missus afterwards that I did not trust her dad with a pistol after what I saw. She agreed.

I'm just glad I'm still alive to tell the tale.

rick benjamin · Jul 2, 2017

And you tried.
Tough spot to be in.

sigmadog · Jul 2, 2017

I did joke with him, saying that "considering your ability to hit the target, you better hope if you ever get in a gun fight the other guy is scared by loud noises."

He chuckled and said it's been a few years.

RVTECH · Jul 2, 2017

And you tried.
Tough spot to be in.

I agree and would like to add he may very WELL been around guns all his life - but NEVER learned the first thing about gun safety - maybe never taught, or ever considered it for himself. I have see this with a few throughout my life.

DuneHopper · Jul 2, 2017

Thats interesting I have a Father In Law and is a Vietnam Vet so all respect to him are due.

However, he has to be the most unsafe person when shooting, as a few times I was almost killed and he was oblivious. I wont shoot with him any more you have a couple rounds fly over your head cause the guy decides rocks are a good back stop 25ft away with an AK-47,

Good lord and was shooting across a gravel road when he did it.
I am so grateful my now older kids are safe, we yell out ears and eyes to make sure everyone knows we are going hot and then we say going hot and rack the round. Of course thats up in BLM we don't yell at the range LOL.

I digress, been there done that and its a hard place to be, he was close a couple times but the bullets flying over head did it. Of course there was the time he thought he would do a hip shot and dump the 30rds and slipped right at the end of mag the barrel swept me as the trigger went click and was out . As I said we don't go with him. I respect his service but my loved ones prefer I am around awhile.

Flymph · Jul 2, 2017

I was hammered with gun safety before ever being allowed to touch a gun. Getting to see a gun up close was a special occasion, and to be respected.
I don't suppose he would be willing to listen and learn a little?
I tend to act the same way until it's such a problem that I can't bite my tongue any longer.

RVTECH · Jul 2, 2017

I don't suppose he would be willing to listen and learn a little?

Depends on the person - some are so self-righteous they believe for whatever reasons they don't NEED to listen.

Flopsweat · Jul 2, 2017

There is a reason that the frequency of firearms accidents has been on a steady decline. We're way better at teaching firearm safety than we used to be. Your FIL learned to shoot during the "used to be".

Stomper · Jul 2, 2017

I ALWAYS stay behind the shooter, and they'll get ONE "polite" redmedial reminder from me if they they turn that weapon more than 45° either way from facing down-range towards parallel of the firing line. ONE.

Instructions on indexing the boogerhook are given prior to being handed a weapon, and encouraging verbal reminders on indexing are given as needed during the course of fire. It doesn't usually take long for that to sink in, but don't break that 45° plane from facing down-range.

HB of CJ · Jul 2, 2017

If it had been ME, everything would have changed with his first gun sweep. No dog in this. But ... I would have quick slapped that gun away, secured his gun arm, then get right into his face and give it to him verbally. Would not hold back. A full no shieter 3 minute full boat lecture about gun control. Would not hit my Father In Law, but almost. His behavior must stop.

Then observe his response. If he back pedals and apologizes profusely then all might be well. But maybe not either. At that instant he is no longer my father in law but a dumb foook. Is this overboard? Is this over the top? No. I do not think so. I had the same sort of thing happen while camping with my future father in law. Finally I had to take command of a dangerous situation.

Sometimes we must do what we must do. Hurt feelings do not enter into it. I probably saved all 4 of us camping at 7000 feet in April. I was outvoted. We went. It snowed 8". We were getting very cold. I took command and got us off that mountain safely. Barely. I waited almost too long. Your father in law situation might or might not be salvageable. You must decide. Oh boy.

Consider your future relationship with family in laws. Sometimes displaying instant assertive corrective action might give you some long term reverent power. But perhaps not either. In my case my future father in law took it very badly and did not speak to me for weeks. He was a dumb foook. The whole family was. She gave back the engagement ring. Sad. Probably the best decision.

Your father in law might be a loose cannon just waiting to hurt somebody. No disrespect. But ... we can not be selective about in laws. They come with the relationship with your wife. Maybe you can over time patch things up with your in law Dad? But maybe not either. At the least try to be nice and give him some lessons in gun control? He may want such. Or he may not either.

Respectfully.

BDA.45 · Jul 2, 2017

sigmadog said:
So we have visitors from out of town, one of whom is older and, according to the Missus, he "has been around guns all his life."

Okay. So on Saturday we decide to do some shooting. I bring out my .380 and both my 1911 .45's. We are out on our deck. I pick up the Commander, drop the mag and clear it, then hand it to the old fart.

He doesn't clear it for himself, just grabs it and his finger goes right onto the trigger while pointing it at me. For the next few minutes he talks about all the guns he used to own, all the while sweeping me and the Missus. I'm politely stepping from side to side to avoid the business end.

I had serious doubts at this point.

I collect the gun from him and clear it in front of him. No response from him.

We walk down to our small pistol range and do some shooting. He at least keeps the gun pointed down range at all times (credit where credit is due), though his finger never leaves the trigger. At one point towards the end he has a FTF with the Commander. He stops and looks at me for help. I approach and he starts to hand it to me.

I say sharply, "STOP! Take your finger off the trigger!"

I take the gun from him then. Drop the mag and clear it. Then I reload the round, insert the mag and rack a round into the chamber and, holding the top of the pistol pointing it down range, hand it to him so he can finish the load.

The shoot ended shortly after that.

I personally think the shooting should have never started after what happened on the deck. But here's the thing, I had to roll with it because the guy is my father-in-law. Trust me, I'd rather take a bullet than get my wife all riled up from disrespecting her father (kidding!).

Still, I told the Missus afterwards that I did not trust her dad with a pistol after what I saw. She agreed.

I'm just glad I'm still alive to tell the tale.

I recently had the EXACT same thing happen. Wife grads from school, family here and wanna shoot, DONT WANNA BE THE DIK.....I get it bro.....Her pops was like "ive shot 1,000,000 guns, i know what im doin..." Well.....he didnt.....I was like a hawk waiting for prey. I was close enough to where if anything went wrong, there i was....

RVTECH · Jul 2, 2017

You can pick your friends but not your relatives.....

Flopsweat · Jul 2, 2017

HB of CJ said:
If it had been ME, everything would have changed with his first gun sweep. No dog in this. But ... I would have quick slapped that gun away, secured his gun arm, then get right into his face and give it to him verbally. Would not hold back. A full no shieter 3 minute full boat lecture about gun control. Would not hit my Father In Law, but almost. His behavior must stop.

Then observe his response. If he back pedals and apologizes profusely then all might be well. But maybe not either. At that instant he is no longer my father in law but a dumb foook. Is this overboard? Is this over the top? No. I do not think so. I had the same sort of thing happen while camping with my future father in law. Finally I had to take command of a dangerous situation.

Sometimes we must do what we must do. Hurt feelings do not enter into it. I probably saved all 4 of us camping at 7000 feet in April. I was outvoted. We went. It snowed 8". We were getting very cold. I took command and got us off that mountain safely. Barely. I waited almost too long. Your father in law situation might or might not be salvageable. You must decide. Oh boy.

Consider your future relationship with family in laws. Sometimes displaying instant assertive corrective action might give you some long term reverent power. But perhaps not either. In my case my future father in law took it very badly and did not speak to me for weeks. He was a dumb foook. The whole family was. She gave back the engagement ring. Sad. Probably the best decision.

Your father in law might be a loose cannon just waiting to hurt somebody. No disrespect. But ... we can not be selective about in laws. They come with the relationship with your wife. Maybe you can over time patch things up with your in law Dad? But maybe not either. At the least try to be nice and give him some lessons in gun control? He may want such. Or he may not either.

Respectfully.

With all due respect, I think most of us would choose a more measured approach, especially in this particular situation. OP managed to preserve his relationship with his gal and not get shot. I think he did well. I doubt that the people in your story will remember the safety lessen over the physical and verbal aggression. Their story will more likely be about the violent gun nut that their daughter almost married. It's not as if I haven't lost my temper a few times either, but I've noticed that I almost always regret it. It helps me tone it down a little. Usually...

MrMillspecer · Jul 2, 2017

Bet your glad you didn't hand him a loaded one.

My stepfather is a terrible shot and knows nothing about safe firearm handling. He shot a hole in their kitchen floor showing my mom his P38. I have offered to take him shooting and teach him safe firearms handling but he won't have none of it. Now he's afraid of them. Next time I'm in Spokane I'm setting my mom up with a pistol. She's much safer and a better shot.

RVTECH · Jul 2, 2017

He shot a hole in their kitchen floor showing my mom his P38. I have offered to take him shooting and teach him safe firearms handling but he won't have none of it. Now he's afraid of them.

So he started out actually owning a gun but due to his negligence he is now 'afraid' of them? Sounds like he was never really a gun 'owner' to begin with - more like he just had one by happenstance.

ArgentineSteel · Jul 2, 2017

I tossed a know it all 9 year old off the BB range once because he couldn't keep his finger off the trigger while I was teaching range safety. Probably the only thing he learned and will remember in camp.

MrMillspecer · Jul 2, 2017

RVTECH said:
So he started out actually owning a gun but due to his negligence he is now 'afraid' of them? Sounds like he was never really a gun 'owner' to begin with - more like he just had one by happenstance.

He owns a few but neglects spending the time to learn to shoot them or handle them correctly and safely. And after the accident with the floor I can tell he's scared of them. At least he has much more respect when handling them. But it could have been my moms life. Not good.

Alexx1401 · Jul 2, 2017

sigmadog said:
So we have visitors from out of town, one of whom is older and, according to the Missus, he "has been around guns all his life."

Okay. So on Saturday we decide to do some shooting. I bring out my .380 and both my 1911 .45's. We are out on our deck. I pick up the Commander, drop the mag and clear it, then hand it to the old fart.

He doesn't clear it for himself, just grabs it and his finger goes right onto the trigger while pointing it at me. For the next few minutes he talks about all the guns he used to own, all the while sweeping me and the Missus. I'm politely stepping from side to side to avoid the business end.

I had serious doubts at this point.

I collect the gun from him and clear it in front of him. No response from him.

We walk down to our small pistol range and do some shooting. He at least keeps the gun pointed down range at all times (credit where credit is due), though his finger never leaves the trigger. At one point towards the end he has a FTF with the Commander. He stops and looks at me for help. I approach and he starts to hand it to me.

I say sharply, "STOP! Take your finger off the trigger!"

I take the gun from him then. Drop the mag and clear it. Then I reload the round, insert the mag and rack a round into the chamber and, holding the top of the pistol pointing it down range, hand it to him so he can finish the load.

The shoot ended shortly after that.

I personally think the shooting should have never started after what happened on the deck. But here's the thing, I had to roll with it because the guy is my father-in-law. Trust me, I'd rather take a bullet than get my wife all riled up from disrespecting her father (kidding!).

Still, I told the Missus afterwards that I did not trust her dad with a pistol after what I saw. She agreed.

I'm just glad I'm still alive to tell the tale.

I understand your hesitance to "school" FIL. I can't tell others how to do it but I would have not been that nice. I would have "tried" to be nice about teaching but would have been insistent on some learning. He "may" have been receptive, may not. I would have to at least try. I sure as hell would not want to shoot with him if he was not willing to learn some proper safety. If you feel it out so to speak and try he may actually be willing to learn. If not I would just politely decline to ever let him shoot with me. He may decide to get a gun of his own. If he does not learn better than that he may well be VERY sorry.

sigmadog · Jul 2, 2017

Alexx1401 said:
If not I would just politely decline to ever let him shoot with me.

That's the way I'm handling it. It probably won't come up again, as his health is failing and he probably won't be heading our way any time soon. If he does we won't be shooting. The Missus is on board with this -- or will be once I explain things to her.

RVTECH · Jul 2, 2017

There are gun 'owners' and gun 'possessors' - I believe a gun 'owner' is one who respects and understands what he owns, shoots regularly, keeps the guns clean and keeps up with trends, gun laws and makes them a 'materiel' part of his life. A gun 'possessor' may own a few, maybe inherited or bought on a whim or as a short-sighted fleeting interest and rarely shoots (and when he does it is more as a 'novelty' as opposed to true interest)
The person who becomes 'afraid' of the gun due to negligence is not an 'owner' but someone who sees the GUN as dangerous and not the 'handling' of it as the real culprit.