SB 941 Now in House Committee

[Skier]

The current guy who is motioning to put this bill on indefinite hold to review the data used to support this bill is making a great case. Didn't catch his name.

 

[papahepcat]

The current guy who is motioning to put this bill on indefinite hold to review the data used to support this bill is making a great case. Didn't catch his name.

He's the Minority Leader, Mclane
https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/mclane

 

[Skier]

Yep, I just figured that out after the rebuttal started. McLane gave some great testimony.

 

[Skier]

Man, I soooooo wish there was a running thread on the side of this live video stream, where you could post comments so some of the really goofy, easily refutable statements made.

 

[Skier]

Final vote: 33 for, 27 against, 1 abstain

It passed... :-(

 

[HHT]

Final vote: 33 for, 27 against, 1 abstain

It passed... :-(

I hope y'all are more fired up than ever to get out and get petitions signed!!!!!

 

[tiggers97]

I hope y'all are more fired up than ever to get out and get petitions signed!!!!!

Or volunteer to help out in adjoining districts that are. That's what I'll be doing. cannot do much in my own district, but I sure can next door!

 

[Norm0931]

Or volunteer to help out in adjoining districts that are. That's what I'll be doing. cannot do much in my own district, but I sure can next door!

And cancel your NRA memberships. Just like Washington, the NRA didn't do ANYTHING to help us. Be sure you let them know why you are cancelling. Donate to OFF instead.

 

[Solved]

And cancel your NRA memberships. Just like Washington, the NRA didn't do ANYTHING to help us. Be sure you let them know why you are cancelling. Donate to OFF instead.

They didn't help because helping in these cases doesn't help their image. They gain members when they swoop, remove gun laws, and act like heros.

If they just came in and protected our rights, they would get significantly less support afterwards.

I'm not saying I support it, just explaining the logic behind it.

 

[U201491]

And cancel your NRA memberships. Just like Washington, the NRA didn't do ANYTHING to help us. Be sure you let them know why you are cancelling. Donate to OFF instead.

Ohhh yeah be sure you join bloombergs clan in dissing the NRA... yeah great move.... .
People can be part of all pro gun groups. OFF and NRA included...............
You never miss a lick to badmouth the NRA.

 

[Norm0931]

Ohhh yeah be sure you join bloombergs clan in dissing the NRA... yeah great move.... .
People can be part of all pro gun groups. OFF and NRA included...............
You never miss a lick to badmouth the NRA.

Sorry, I can't read your post, too busy actually doing something. You must be running your own recall or initiative with NRA support, right Taku? FYI, the Oregon NRA "grassroots" coordinator is really bad about returning phone calls in case you try to reach her.

 

[U201491]

Sorry, I can't read your post, too busy actually doing something. You must be running your own recall or initiative with NRA support, right Taku? FYI, the Oregon NRA "grassroots" coordinator is really bad about returning phone calls in case you try to reach her.

That is rather humorous as She responded to me inside an hour tonight when I asked why she was not contacting anyone on SB941. Seems you made no real effort to contact them at all.

Her email reply to me of just a few min ago.
(response time from contact actually 9:34 and response was at 10:25. an hr and a half give or take a min or two.)

"Thank you very much for contacting me about the NRA's involvement with SB 941. I'm more than happy to visit with anyone about our work in Oregon, and please encourage people to contact me directly via email or at 703-939-0824. I'm very prompt to answer and return phone calls- if there is someone that feels differently please encourage them to reach out to me again.

As for the recall efforts, thus far our focus as been on the legislative session and doing everything we could to try to prevent SB 941. Our lobbyist Dan Reid has constantly been at the Capitol working with lawmakers on this issue. The NRA is aware of the recall efforts and is exploring all options now that SB 941 has passed.

Thank you for all you do , and please feel free to contact me for further information and with any questions you may have.

Keely
[email protected]
.

And they have been present at all the county and the state meetings and sessions.
You know not what you speak.
You are Just too bent on criticizing and badmouthing them.
In doing that you do as much harm as you do good in other areas.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Norm0931]

Yes Dan testified twice, once in the Senate and once in the House. As did a lot of Oregonians. Bloomberg by contrast set up a call center in TN, hired Private Investigators in Portland to entrap criminals as "evidence", and ran a series of TV ads featuring Portland's old police chief.

Hell, go back further and look at the last election.
Bruce Star:
NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION NON-INDIVIDUAL 5 $2,750

Chuck Riley:
EVERYTOWN FOR GUN SAFETY NON-INDIVIDUAL 1 $75,000

Are you an NRA employee? You seem to have this like zealot like love for the NRA.

Yes, Keely did email me, however, when we contacted her about starting a recall she said she was "make a few calls" then never got back to us. We had to call her back and she basically said they wouldn't help us. Kevin at OFF by contrast said he would literally do WHATEVER it took to support us.

If the NRA stepped up and actually did something against I 594 or SB 941 then I wouldn't be so critical, but this idea you have that the NRA is like god and you must obey is ridiculous. They abandoned Oregon and Washington. If you need proof look at what they actually DID, IE NOTHING. Furthermore, on the National level, we have a majority Republican congress and they have not passed one piece of major pro-gun legislation.

 

[Norm0931]

TV ad that COULD have been if the NRA had been bothered to help.

Several of the Sheriffs in Oregon saying the bill wouldn't work and is unenforceable.

Show stats about Oregon having less officer deaths OVERALL since 2000 than California did in 2014 ONLY to gun violence.

Show counties that brought measures in opposition of 941 (highlight counties on map of Oregon to show how much of Oregon is covered)

Show a national map and highlight NY, CA, and TN with green arrows with $$ moving to Oregon. "Special Interests from outside are trying to buy YOUR legislature for their agendas."

"Even the bill's creator admits it won't stop crime." Cut to video of Prozanski testimony that it will not stop criminals from getting guns.

"Call your representative and encourage them to stand up for women's rights to self defense and vote, "NO" on SB-941" with a picture of Oregon in the background with a mother and her kid.

And that took me all of 2 minutes.

 

[Koda]

TV ad that COULD have been if the NRA had been bothered to help.

Several of the Sheriffs in Oregon saying the bill wouldn't work and is unenforceable.

Show stats about Oregon having less officer deaths OVERALL since 2000 than California did in 2014 ONLY to gun violence.

Show counties that brought measures in opposition of 941 (highlight counties on map of Oregon to show how much of Oregon is covered)

Show a national map and highlight NY, CA, and TN with green arrows with $$ moving to Oregon. "Special Interests from outside are trying to buy YOUR legislature for their agendas."

"Even the bill's creator admits it won't stop crime." Cut to video of Prozanski testimony that it will not stop criminals from getting guns.

"Call your representative and encourage them to stand up for women's rights to self defense and vote, "NO" on SB-941" with a picture of Oregon in the background with a mother and her kid.

And that took me all of 2 minutes.

^^^this^^^

Since the NRA with their millions cant afford it maybe we here at NWFA can take donations to put money in a fund reserved for TV ads for appropriate 2A lesgislation, especially when countering opposition ads. I bet OFF will gladly support this idea.

 

[etrain16]

^^^this^^^

Since the NRA with their millions cant afford it maybe we here at NWFA can take donations to put money in a fund reserved for TV ads for appropriate 2A lesgislation, especially when countering opposition ads. I bet OFF will gladly support this idea.

One huge question though - would any stations actually run them? In an election, they are required to give equal time to anyone that can pay. Outside of an election? if I understand correctly, it goes back to them to decide what they will and won't run. And can anyone honestly say that any stations around here would run such an ad? My guess is likely no - due to the clear bias they show over and over against our side. Unfortunately a commercial like that wouldn't see much, if any, airtime in any major Oregon market like PDX.

 

[etrain16]

TV ad that COULD have been if the NRA had been bothered to help.

Several of the Sheriffs in Oregon saying the bill wouldn't work and is unenforceable.

Show stats about Oregon having less officer deaths OVERALL since 2000 than California did in 2014 ONLY to gun violence.

Show counties that brought measures in opposition of 941 (highlight counties on map of Oregon to show how much of Oregon is covered)

Show a national map and highlight NY, CA, and TN with green arrows with $$ moving to Oregon. "Special Interests from outside are trying to buy YOUR legislature for their agendas."

"Even the bill's creator admits it won't stop crime." Cut to video of Prozanski testimony that it will not stop criminals from getting guns.

"Call your representative and encourage them to stand up for women's rights to self defense and vote, "NO" on SB-941" with a picture of Oregon in the background with a mother and her kid.

And that took me all of 2 minutes.

I'm an NRA member and consider another option I don't see being discussed of late. The NRA, which has far more experience in these arenas than myself and, I suspect, anyone else on this forum, knows far better than us where and when limited resources will get the biggest bang for the buck. They already work on a national level in D.C., which isn't cheap, and they do fight on the state level, in varying degrees.

They can't outspend Bloomberg, not by a longshot. So, what would make good sense with the limited resources they have? Mounting an all-out battle in Oregon or Washington, where the cards are tipped heavily against them? Or perhaps to focus resources where they can do the most good.

Sure, I'd love to see the NRA blitz the state with ads, lawyers and lobbying, but I suspect it just doesn't pencil out. I've been in business long enough to know that there are some risks worth taking, and others to leave be. And that's especially tough when you're the one that misses out.

I will continue to support the NRA, and to ask them for more support in Oregon. But I have to be realistic and understand that, like any business, they don't have the resources to do everything they want or even need to do. Bloomberg has a huge coffer of funds that will keep him going for years. What we really need is a wealthy pro-gun benefactor that can counter that lunatic. Until then, I expect folks like OFF and SAF to take the lead at the state level. And I don't begrudge the NRA for making the tough decisions that have to be made for them to remain viable for the really big fights - like helping to block the recent attempted ammo ban - they were very instrumental in gathering legislative opposition - and I appreciate their work in that regard.

In the end, we can't sit around waiting for someone else to do the work for us. The more we can educate and mobilize in our efforts, the more chance we have to defeat them. And what sends a stronger message to Salem - a big outside influence like the NRA stops them, or the voters of Oregon? I'll say the voters are far more of a threat to them than the NRA will ever be.

 

[Koda]

I dont really know those answers but id say ads at election time are better than nothing.

Outside of election time it cant hurt to try, isnt fox network more conservative?

 

[tkdguy]

Here's what I sent out earlier today to all the reps as the Everytown "Oregon is full of meth-head gun-owners" report was really bothering me. You may have read me rant about it already, but if you see something you like, use it.


Analysis!
In the Everytown report they spend the first few pages building up how many firearms are potentially sold in Oregon over a year by 'unlicensed dealers' (If I sell my used car to a friend, am I an 'unlicensed car dealer'?). The meat of the report is their online study from November 22 to December 30, 2014 were Everytown placed ads for firearms on Armslist and describes 4 of the 203 respondents to those ads as being prohibited persons (a total of 11 were claimed as prohibited). But the first thing missing is what kind of ads were placed. Why not included some raw data to back up the claims? Did the very real threat of a libel lawsuit in Vermont, the last state where Everytowns produced one of these reports and showed the actual ads they used, have anything to do with not presenting any 'raw data' for peer review? (note1) (Missing Data #1)

Everytown gives four examples of possibly prohibited persons. What about the other seven? What were their crimes? Too many parking tickets, or not showing up for jury duty? Maybe they were a medical marijuana user? (Missing Data #2). We get only a glimpse from what Everytown allows us to see: 3ea ads for Hi-Point pistols, an ad for a Glock 19 and an ad for a S&W Shield 9mm. No idea on the other ads they supposedly ran (see missing data#1 above) so we have to trust as we cannot verify Everytowns claims. Does that sound like a good study report to you? Who peer reviewed this study, anyways? (Missing Data #3)
On Armslist today (05/03/15, noon) there are a total of 1,782 firearms for sale by private parties. 532 are handguns. Of that 4ea HI-Point handguns (or 5 / 1782*100%=0.3% of all firearms). Prices are posted for 4ea, for an average price of $232.50 (Note 3). Prices for a Glock 19 (4ea for sale) or S&W Shield 9mm (4ea for sale) were on average of $500 and $440, respectively (Note 4 and 5).

The three Hi-Points for sale by Everytown appeared to have agreed selling points of $100, $120 and $130, for an average price of $120. Or about 1/2 the average cost of the typical Hi-point currently on Arms-list. (Note if you take out a $400 Hi-Point from my average calculation, which I consider an outlier high price, you still get an average price of ~$180, or still ~50% more than what Everytown was selling). No one has any idea on what Everytown was asking for the Glock 19 or the S&W Shield 9mm (Missing Data #4.
Why is Hi-Point represented so many times? Maybe because they are a favored firearm for criminals and gang members (Note 6). Inexpensive firearms in general are favored as most gangs and criminals do not look at these firearms as investments, recreational or self-protection use like the average law-abiding citizen does. From Everytowns own presentation their ads were heavily biased in that direction. AND offering those firearms at large discounts, thereby appealing to criminals. Who knows if there was additional language in the ads to further bait their intended targets?
Oh, and don't take my word for it: ask law-enforcement if Hi-Point firearms are routinely found at crime scenes, or other similar cheap handguns. The answer may surprise you and further lead you to understand how widely over the top Everytowns overestimation and exaggeration are for Oregon.

Analogy? Say you wanted to know how many red-heads there are in Portland. So you hire someone to do a count for you. Your new hire conducts the study by heading to the most authentic Irish pub in Portland that they can find. There they count 1 out of every 18 patrons as a red head. And then they extrapolate that number to the entire population of Portland. In 2013, the population was 609,456 people. 1 out of 18 would be 33,858 gingers in the Portland area. Are there ~34K red-heads in Portland? No. Would you pay this person for the report, or trust them to collect reliable data for other statistics you might need? Would you cast a vote based on a study like this?
Summary!
Everytown took a narrowly defined category to target a firearm favored by criminals, offered them at discount prices, and then extrapolated the results to the entire market of firearms available. And thereby insinuating that 1 out of every 18 patrons on Armslist are criminals. Some call it 'salting a study', or tilting a study to favor a desired outcome. That also sounding dangerously close to libel to me.

Of course that's also why you see plenty of words in the report like "possibly, may be, would-be, potential, suggests, nearly" that are necessary to build the statement at the pinnacle of Everytowns report on page 9: "At this prevalence, gun sales transacted on just four websites could put an estimated 1,360 guns into the hands of felons and domestic abusers in Oregon — and likely many more — in this year alone.". Those speculative words end up making the report sound more like an info-commercial for selling a real-estate no-money down program. But they also reveal how biased and misleading this report is.

Finally, there is a curious foot note #23 at the end of the 'report': "At the culmination of the investigation, Everytown shared all evidence of potential wrongdoing with law enforcement authorities in Oregon." It would be interesting to see the results and response from law-enforcement, 5 months after the conclusion of the study, on what really happened to the people being claimed as prohibited person.

Triggers: Can you call me at 503-380-3777 tkdguy

 

[etrain16]

I dont really know those answers but id say ads at election time are better than nothing.

Outside of election time it cant hurt to try, isnt fox network more conservative?

Maybe they are, I don't know if they are as conservative as the Fox News Network, at least on a local level. And the politics of advertising could kick in. Say a couple of long-time regular advertisers don't appreciate the station running that message and pressure them to drop the ads - who will the station bow to? The short term ads, or the long time, lucrative clients? In that case, we lose again.

Now radio spots may be more effective as you light convince someone like 1190 KEX in the Portland market to pick them up. Might even reach more people that way. Radio has been more of a friend to conservative viewpoints than television, at least for the last decade or so.