Reloading take 2

[Koda]

new to reloading I tried to get into it earlier this year but manufacturing shortages put my load development on hold as my small sample of powder I scrounged up was being used. I signed up for notifications on various websites and moved on to other things.... few months went by, and then... ding, I scored 8lbs of my powder, ding, scored 100pcs of brand new brass, ding, projectiles, ding... that Forster seating die I always wanted.

So still new to reloading Id like to start moving forward again but I have some questions for those with experience.

1) summer load dev, how much will hot summer temps influence my load development? To clarify (some here might already know my story...) my reloading goal is a rifle hunting round used in the fall hunting season where it can be moderately warm to snowing, enough of a temperature difference than a hot summer. Originally my goal was to develope the load recipe in winter/spring at the latest... If I develop a recipe in summer, how much will that vary come cooler fall temperatures?

2) Brand new Nosler brass, how much will totally different brass change what load data I have collected so far? I was using fired Hornady brass I saved from the factory ammo I use to hunt with and have enough load data to pick up where I left off but its on the higher end of charge weight... pressure and velocities. My understanding is that different brass will have slightly different case capacities, volume, expansion etc. so should I start over with a new ladder test to develop the velocity I want? Opinions on Nosler brass appreciated as well.

3) brand new Forster full length sizing die and seating die, will using these make a difference in existing load data taken from a different sizing die set? I figure not, but since Im here thought Id ask.

picture for attention, digging thru my notes and files I think this is where I last left off I was starting to play with seating depths.

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[DizzyJ]

new to reloading I tried to get into it earlier this year but manufacturing shortages put my load development on hold as my small sample of powder I scrounged up was being used. I signed up for notifications on various websites and moved on to other things.... few months went by, and then... ding, I scored 8lbs of my powder, ding, scored 100pcs of brand new brass, ding, projectiles, ding... that Forster seating die I always wanted.

So still new to reloading Id like to start moving forward again but I have some questions for those with experience.

1) summer load dev, how much will hot summer temps influence my load development? To clarify (some here might already know my story...) my reloading goal is a rifle hunting round used in the fall hunting season where it can be moderately warm to snowing, enough of a temperature difference than a hot summer. Originally my goal was to develope the load recipe in winter/spring at the latest... If I develop a recipe in summer, how much will that vary come cooler fall temperatures?

2) Brand new Nosler brass, how much will totally different brass change what load data I have collected so far? I was using fired Hornady brass I saved from the factory ammo I use to hunt with and have enough load data to pick up where I left off but its on the higher end of charge weight... pressure and velocities. My understanding is that different brass will have slightly different case capacities, volume, expansion etc. so should I start over with a new ladder test to develop the velocity I want? Opinions on Nosler brass appreciated as well.

3) brand new Forster full length sizing die and seating die, will using these make a difference in existing load data taken from a different sizing die set? I figure not, but since Im here thought Id ask.

picture for attention, digging thru my notes and files I think this is where I last left off I was starting to play with seating depths.
View attachment 985049

Depends on the powder you're using. Some powders like the hodgedon extreme series are less sensitive to temperature fluctuations than others. A bit of google searching here will give you a general idea of the temperature sensitivity of your particular powder.

It's SAFER to work up a load in the summer. Creating a max load during the winter can cause pressures to spike in the warmer summer temps.

Generally speaking, a different brass manufacturer can cause a shift in velocity/accuracy. I'd recommend a separate work up with the new brass.

The sizing die and bullet seating die will probably be pretty close still. Differences in neck tension and brass thickness can cause a slight change in brass spring back and bullet seating resistance to seating. It'll be a trial and error to see if any adjustments will be needed.

This has been my experience anyway.

 

[P7M13]

I see you're using IMR 4831. Are you shooting a 270 Win ?
Depends. The bigger issue with temperature sensitivity is pressure spikes in hot weather when the load is developed in winter. You shouldn't have that problem. I'd bet ya dollars to donuts that the lower temperature and higher elevation would balance out in your overall shot trajectory.
Unless you intend on shooting past 600, you probably won't have a problem with temp variations. There's a lot of rehash and hubub about it on the interwebs, and I'm of the opinion that for most hunters, the variation in MV due to temperature is negligible in the overall picture.
In your group firing test, are you referencing Base to Ogive at 2.787 (what you are calling COAL) ?
Also, depth is one of those things I would monkey with only after I have found a velocity node to play with where my ES and SD are both low.
Best of luck.

 

[Koda]

Right outta the gate I think I have my answers, this forum is great. Unless I stick with the old brass, I think I should start completely over... seems a bit frustrating but the best choice, no biggie Ive got plenty of supplies now, first world problems.

 

[JuglansRegia]

See if you can work up a load with varget, that should eliminate most of your ambient temperature variations.

 

[Koda]

I see you're using IMR 4831. Are you shooting a 270 Win ?
Depends. The bigger issue with temperature sensitivity is pressure spikes in hot weather when the load is developed in winter. You shouldn't have that problem. I'd bet ya dollars to donuts that the lower temperature and higher elevation would balance out in your overall shot trajectory.
Unless you intend on shooting past 600, you probably won't have a problem with temp variations. There's a lot of rehash and hubub about it on the interwebs, and I'm of the opinion that for most hunters, the variation in MV due to temperature is negligible in the overall picture.
In your group firing test, are you referencing Base to Ogive at 2.787 (what you are calling COAL) ?
Also, depth is one of those things I would monkey with only after I have found a velocity node to play with where my ES and SD are both low.
Best of luck.

25-06. The -only- reason Im using IMR4831 is because its the only powder I could find and started with a few months ago but very limited supply from a private sale.

Not that I would mind shooting past 600yds Im not a fan of long distance hunting, especially with my caliber. I just wasnt certain how the difference between hot summer and fall temperatures affected POI in load development. Being new to reloading Im still uncertain what accuracy I can achieve in the first place...

I was referencing cartridge overall length based on the ogive and compared to measuring my chamber using a Hornady gauge. Its hard to explain but I was taking a change the groups I got were good enough to play with seating depts back then since I was limited on powder. For now Im disregarding that thought process since I have enough powder.

 

[Koda]

See if you can work up a load with varget, that should eliminate most of your ambient temperature variations.

I dont know how to determine what the best powder is for my project but manufacturing shortages still persist so Im thankful to have a supply of IMR4831. I also have 5lbs of Ramshot Magnum inbound but thats for a different grain bullet I ordered.

Im open to learning about whats the best powder for m 25-06 but consider manufacturing shortages still persist I dont think I can find Varget right now, if I held off for that my guess is it would set my load development back until next winter at the earliest. I got lucky with finding IMR...

 

[P7M13]

Varget would be too fast for the heavies (120gr).
Looking at Nosler's site, they find Retumbo is the best. I'd look at H1000 or 7977 if you can find either one.
I used to fret about powder and want to try a bunch. Now I just find the best load, and if I'm not happy with it, look for a different powder.

As far as Nosler brass, I used to think it was tits. Now I see it as better than RP or Winchester. At about the same cost, Peterson or Lapua are much better.

 

[Koda]

Varget would be too fast for the heavies (120gr).
Looking at Nosler's site, they find Retumbo is the best. I'd look at H1000 or 7977 if you can find either one.
I used to fret about powder and want to try a bunch. Now I just find the best load, and if I'm not happy with it, look for a different powder.

As far as Nosler brass, I used to think it was tits. Now I see it as better than RP or Winchester. At about the same cost, Peterson or Lapua are much better.

yup, Im using Nosler Partition 120s. Have yet to find that Retumbo and I have email notifications for that powder on all the suppliers sites.
Im ok with IMR4831 at this point.... but yeah its frustrating to not be able to use what I think is the best. Anyways... Ive no idea if Retumbo would be the most accurate in my rifle compared to Noslers test barrel anyways?

Nosler brass is all I can find as well, I just want to know its good enough... Peterson and Lapua dont make brass in my caliber so theres that.

 

[JuglansRegia]

Nosler brass is decent, l like the Sig brass too.

 

[po18guy]

new to reloading I tried to get into it earlier this year but manufacturing shortages put my load development on hold as my small sample of powder I scrounged up was being used. I signed up for notifications on various websites and moved on to other things.... few months went by, and then... ding, I scored 8lbs of my powder, ding, scored 100pcs of brand new brass, ding, projectiles, ding... that Forster seating die I always wanted.

So still new to reloading Id like to start moving forward again but I have some questions for those with experience.

1) summer load dev, how much will hot summer temps influence my load development? To clarify (some here might already know my story...) my reloading goal is a rifle hunting round used in the fall hunting season where it can be moderately warm to snowing, enough of a temperature difference than a hot summer. Originally my goal was to develope the load recipe in winter/spring at the latest... If I develop a recipe in summer, how much will that vary come cooler fall temperatures?

2) Brand new Nosler brass, how much will totally different brass change what load data I have collected so far? I was using fired Hornady brass I saved from the factory ammo I use to hunt with and have enough load data to pick up where I left off but its on the higher end of charge weight... pressure and velocities. My understanding is that different brass will have slightly different case capacities, volume, expansion etc. so should I start over with a new ladder test to develop the velocity I want? Opinions on Nosler brass appreciated as well.

3) brand new Forster full length sizing die and seating die, will using these make a difference in existing load data taken from a different sizing die set? I figure not, but since Im here thought Id ask.

picture for attention, digging thru my notes and files I think this is where I last left off I was starting to play with seating depths.
View attachment 985049

Which cartridge and which powder? Winchester is promoting StaBall 6.5 as a ball powder (consistent metering) which is as insensitive to temperature as extruded powders. Might be something worth trying.

 

[JuglansRegia]

H332 is supposed to have more bench rest records than any other powder. The bottom line is there are several powders very insensitive to temperature changes but they aren't going to give you the best velocity.

 

[po18guy]

H332 is supposed to have more bench rest records than any other powder. The bottom line is there are several powders very insensitive to temperature changes but they aren't going to give you the best velocity.

H322 OR H335? THe 322 is very similar if not identical (at least in burn rate) to the milsurp IMR-8208. And now there is IMR-8208 XBR, but I do not know its record or burn rate. It would seem to be close to the old IMR, as the "8208" is a curious number if not meant to emulate that Viet Nam proved powder in 5.56 and .308 Win.

 

[bbbass]

When you work up the new brass, you'll probably find the load is somewhat close to the old formula for the other brass I'm guessing.

Regarding Nosler's powder recommendation.... every rifle/barrel combo is different. Use what ya got unless you are unhappy with the results.... can find a better load later. IMO it's fun to play with load research, but not fun to try to find powder.

 

[oremike]

As far as new Nosler vs. once fired Hornady brass, I'd use the load I like or maybe back it down a grain and shoot them. This will create Nosler once fired brass. No point in doing a ton of load development on new brass if you are going to use it again. Once you've got a pile of once fired brass you can fine tune your loads.

Edited to add: A lot of people get wrapped up in Bench rest one hole type groups. In the real world a 1" group from a hunting rifle at 100 yds is actually quite good. Even if at 400 yds the group opens up to 4 inches it's still minute of dead deer.

 

[Koda]

This will create Nosler once fired brass.

do I need to once fire the new Nosler brass or can I take data straight from the new conditions shot?

 

[oremike]

I'd just load it as the other and shoot it it's not like you are creating a wildcat.

 

[deadeye]

new to reloading I tried to get into it earlier this year but manufacturing shortages put my load development on hold as my small sample of powder I scrounged up was being used. I signed up for notifications on various websites and moved on to other things.... few months went by, and then... ding, I scored 8lbs of my powder, ding, scored 100pcs of brand new brass, ding, projectiles, ding... that Forster seating die I always wanted.

So still new to reloading Id like to start moving forward again but I have some questions for those with experience.

1) summer load dev, how much will hot summer temps influence my load development? To clarify (some here might already know my story...) my reloading goal is a rifle hunting round used in the fall hunting season where it can be moderately warm to snowing, enough of a temperature difference than a hot summer. Originally my goal was to develope the load recipe in winter/spring at the latest... If I develop a recipe in summer, how much will that vary come cooler fall temperatures?

2) Brand new Nosler brass, how much will totally different brass change what load data I have collected so far? I was using fired Hornady brass I saved from the factory ammo I use to hunt with and have enough load data to pick up where I left off but its on the higher end of charge weight... pressure and velocities. My understanding is that different brass will have slightly different case capacities, volume, expansion etc. so should I start over with a new ladder test to develop the velocity I want? Opinions on Nosler brass appreciated as well.

3) brand new Forster full length sizing die and seating die, will using these make a difference in existing load data taken from a different sizing die set? I figure not, but since Im here thought Id ask.

picture for attention, digging thru my notes and files I think this is where I last left off I was starting to play with seating depths.
View attachment 985049

where did you get your load data, Was it Lee?
Nosler and speer says 50gr max.
IMR says 53gr max as a compressed load.
Lee says 53gr but does not say compressed?


You may be working against yourself using the load your using, especially if the heat is effecting it at this level. I myself would back it down and see if it tightens up your group.

 

[Koda]

where did you get your load data, Was it Lee?
Nosler and speer says 50gr max.
IMR says 53gr max as a compressed load.
Lee says 53gr but does not say compressed?


You may be working against yourself using the load your using, especially if the heat is effecting it at this level. I myself would back it down and see if it tightens up your group.

Im getting my load data from Lee, which states 53gr max for IMR4831. Where I left off I was loading 52gr for about 3000fps (ideally I would like at least 3100fps but im flexible here).
Note: I do not know how summer heat is affecting anything yet, since my last shooting session was in march... but yes, Im cautious of starting out where I left off especially if I switch to the new brass. Right now Im thinking I will start completely over with the new brass and work my way up with a velocity (ladder?) test to see what charges will get the velocities I want and look for that velocity node.

 

[deadeye]

Im getting my load data from Lee, which states 53gr max for IMR4831. Where I left off I was loading 52gr for about 3000fps (ideally I would like at least 3100fps but im flexible here).
Note: I do not know how summer heat is affecting anything yet, since my last shooting session was in march... but yes, Im cautious of starting out where I left off especially if I switch to the new brass. Right now Im thinking I will start completely over with the new brass and work my way up with a velocity (ladder?) test to see what charges will get the velocities I want and look for that velocity node.

Looking for a set FPS vs what length barrel and twist rate you have may not be the way to go with the powder and bullet weight you are choosing/having to use.