Question regarding shipping firearms from FLA-OR?

[CharlesAFerg]

If somebody has family in FLA, and they were to send them guns that are in a safe, what must be done legally to acquire those weapons here in OR?

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[Dan-Dee Sales Inc]

Are they sending them to themselves or are they sending them to you? If my memory is correct, they can ship the firearms to themselves at your address if they are coming to visit or hunt. They must ship the to an FFL if they are shipping them to you.

 

[CharlesAFerg]

Shipping to relatives in Oregon, at which place they will stay. The problem is, the safe needs to be opened. By that, I mean it's locked, and the keys are missing. So, ship it to the FFL, and hire a safe cracker to perform his services at the FFL's location? Seems redundant, but I somewhat understand the legalities regarding the firearms.

 

[tionico]

Have the safe opened in Florida, and then ship the weapons to themselves at the Oregon address. Pistols can be easily shipped Priority Mail, the Flat Rate Boxes are convenient and cheap, particularly all the way across the country. Best is to find a local postoffice with one of those automatic machines in the lobby. The ONLY sets of questions they ask on the screen can be answered honestly in the negative, Handguns with no ammo are not "hazardous" per se, they don't ask if its a firearm, only if its flammable, explosive, body parts, that sort of thing. And a handgun is none of the above. About twelve bucks to ship the package, insurance extra.

Long guns get a bit more complicated, they can't fit in the drop chute so will need to be taken to the window/counter. Since its being addressed to themselves, it will be totally legal, as a transfer is not involved. They will be retaining ownership, not someone else becoming an owner.

One more thing: firearms being transferred to certain close relatives are, as I understand it, according to Federal regs, exempt from the FFL transfer requirements. I KNOW guns inherited from a relative who died are exempt. As long as the person receiving them is lawfully able to own them (not a felon, in other words.. COULD that person pass the NCIS background check? If so, they can inherit the guns.

Essentially, shipping guns to one's self is the equivalent of transporting them in a private auto, or in checked luggage on the plane. As long as they retain ownership......

Of course, supposing they left them behind when they return to Florida, for "storage", then at some later date decide to let you keep them, well, they;ve been in your house for months, maybe years..... not likely anyone should discover the transfer...... maybe they'd leave them at your place for "storage" but retaining ownership (but allowing your use of them) then will them to you on their demise......

gets a bit complicated..... but, shipping them out to you is no problem. One thing I'd HIGHLY recomment..... insure each package (two, maybe three, handguns could possibly be packaged in one Flat Rate Box... weight does NOT change the price of shipping.... for the value of the guns, or the max allowed at the untended machines.. I think its five hundred dollars. Not that the post office will ever pay out on a claim (they make it a matter of principle to refuse payout on some lame pretext), but that, once its got that barcode scan plate on it, they have to keep track of it, meaning if it does go missing, someone will know where it was last, and who had it. In other words, if someone nicks the packet, the inspectors are fairly likely to track them down.... Insured packets nearly never go missing, so it effectively insures its delivery. Oh, and it might be a good idea to add "adult signature required", assuring it won't get left in the open for the local urchins to discover it and make light with it. Seems minding the number/scan halps them to mind the packet as well..... strange how a little accountabilty will change things.

 

[el gringo loco]

My suggestion would be to open the safe in FLA and ship the guns legally (i.e. use an FFL or document that they are from an inheritance,etc.). I have seen this on several websites and went to the ATF websites FAQS to get this:

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b7

This site also seems to have accurate info:

http://www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html

Saving a few bucks cutting corners only seems like a good idea until the feds come a knocking.

 

[Oro]

Pistols can be easily shipped Priority Mail, the Flat Rate Boxes are convenient and cheap, particularly all the way across the country.

That is very illegal unless you are a licensed firearms dealer. Non-licensees (and also C&R licensees) CAN NOT mail handguns. They can mail long guns, but only to another state if it's to themselves at a place they will go pick them up. Your sister in FL, for example, CAN NOT legally mail you a rifle or shotgun directly to your house. She could mail it to another FL resident in FL no problem (that is intra-state commerce), but not to another non-licensee out of FL (interstate commerce).

firearms being transferred to certain close relatives are, as I understand it, according to Federal regs, exempt from the FFL transfer requirements. I KNOW guns inherited from a relative who died are exempt.

Er - if you mean that shipping guns to close relatives or after a death are exempt, Um, no. There's no exception made for that. Now, guns you've inherited are now YOUR guns, so there is no ownership issue. If you were to fly to say, Colorado for a funeral, and you inherited some LONG GUNS - you could take them to the post office and mail them to yourself. Hand guns are NOT mailable via USPS unless you are a bona fide, licensed dealer of firearms. To get them home in this example from CO to OR, you could do three things: take them to an FFL in CO and have him mail them to an FFL back in OR; 2) send them overnight Fed EX or UPS to an FFL in OR, or 3) put them in your luggage and fly back to PDX with them and avoid all transfer crap and costs.

Another example: Your sister, in another state, who has possession of your deceased father's guns, can not ship them to you. This is not the same as you mailing them to yourself. "She" is not "you" and in this case cannot act as your legal proxy. And handguns can not be mailed, anyway. They can be sent via fed ex or UPS, but only overnight and to an FFL.

Now, in this case, do they have any idea how much shipping a gun safe is going to cost? And with loose guns rolling around inside? That's a terrible idea. Open the safe, take the guns out, and ship them. Re-key the safe and sell it locally in Florida. Buy another one used in Oregon. You will come out hundreds of dollars ahead and with massively less headache/hassle than trying to a) find a shipper to take a safe full of guns or b) an FFL willing to receive a safe full of guns that he can't open and verify the contents of. There is no FFL in the country who in his right mind would receive a locked container of guns that he cannot immediately open and verify what is inside (his legal obligation as a licensee).

If you need sound advice on shipping guns, go the thehighroad.com and look at the "stickied" thread on shipping hand guns in the "general handgun discussion" area. Rifles/shotguns are much less complicated. Google "shipping firearms" and you will find various places on the 'net that describe it, as well as the BATF FAQ's.

Lastly, if they are flying out, they can just carry the handguns in their checked baggage and save the shipping hassle. They just need to be unloaded in locked hard-sided containers in the baggage, and declared. No problem.

You/they really need to read the rules out there on this issue; they are more complicated than you think, and also there are more than a few different ways to go about this as you have seen/heard already.

 

[tionico]

Hmmmmm most interesting. I was told in so many words by an FFL Dealer that shipping a handgun via USPS is legal....... perhaps I should have another chat with him. He's been in the business for many years.

It is noteworthy that the last section allows a nonlicensee to ship "a firearm" to himself for his own lawful use, but does not specify HOW. I suspect the restrictions above (private or contract carrier for handguns, anyone for lont guns) would apply.

I may go and check out the relevant sections of 18USC to make sure it specifically states no handguns by mail anytime anywhere by nonlicensees.
so, here we are again, up against the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms not being infringed, and interstate commerce not being interfered with. What do these lawmakers eat for breakfast that makes them leave aside basic language skills?

 

[tionico]

If the sister in FL has possession of the guns, but they were left by a passed relative to the one in Oregon, then the sister does not own them, the Oregon person does, and can have them shipped directly. Paperwork to prove they are part of an estate passed to the OR resident will support this. If anyone is flying, yes, putting the handguns in checked luggage as described is the cheapest and simplest way, and legal.

 

[Oro]

I was told in so many words by an FFL Dealer that shipping a handgun via USPS is legal....... perhaps I should have another chat with him.

What he meant (I bet) was that it was legal FOR HIM. For example, if I sell a gun online to someone in another state, I can send it to the buyer in two ways:

1) to his FFL via Fed Ex/UPS overnight ($70 or so!), or:
2) take it to my FFL, who can do exactly what you described: flat rate box, insured, two day deliver in most cases cross-country. $35 total ($20 fee for him + $15 postage).

So even being an 03 FFL (C&R) doesn't let you do this; you have to be a "bona fide" dealer - like a class 01/07, etc., and then fill out USPS form (I think it is) #1504. So the added hassle of driving the extra miles to my "dealer" FFL is worth it to me as a) he get's some of my money instead of UPS, so that's a "win," and b) I am still paying 1/2 the commercial fees.

If you look at the el gringo loco's post above, you can see he has already found the relevant bit in 18USC about handguns not being mailable; no need to go hunting.

Now, I totally agree with you this is mostly all crap that probably some day will be de-regulated somewhat, but it's going to take years of legal wrangling before all the implications of Heller are worked out. For example, it may not be possible to tax the sale of defensive arms in the way "free speech" may not be taxed as it is a protected right. So start saving all your gun and ammo receipts; you may get a nice tax refund in a few years!

 

[CharlesAFerg]

Excellent information and I very much appreciate the contributions all of you are making. Please continue, because this is very, very informative. Also, it is quite relevant.

 

[parsons_12b]

Charles we could drive to Flordia and pick it up you buy gas I buy food lets go.