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Question about the right to have a CHL in Oregon.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Gunner3456, May 26, 2011.

  1. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Howdy folks, I've been gone awhile and I've been in an unbelieveable hassle. I need some advice please.

    I have a very mean SIL who is a LEO, but he is very well liked by all departments in the area. He is a "high ranking" city LEO. His wife is my daughter and she is mentally ill to the point that she has actually been an inpatient in a psychiatric ward for an extended stay. I believe she is paranoid schizophrenic just based on observation but of course I've never seen her medical records.

    There is an ongoing family squabble over control of my Dad who is 94, a bit senile, but healthy and lives at home. He has finally caught on that these two relatives are all bad for him and for me and my sister, and no longer welcomes them.

    Here's the rub. My SIL and daughter have filed for 3 restraining orders against me in the past year, all full of lies. I have prevailed on all 3 of them outright, so my record is clean as is my wallet, LOL. My SIL also filed a false police report with the Sheriff which paralleled one of the requests for a RO but of course I proved that untrue when I proved the request for the RO with identical charges untrue.

    Because of court dates, etc., I've had to give up "custody and control" of my weapons for most of the past year but I have them back now and am open carrying.

    My LEO SIL is friends with the Sheriff who now won't give me back my CHL which of course was taken with the serving of the first RO. He won't say why - he won't even meet with me or answer phone calls. When I've gone to the front desk at his department I've been told only that there is a "hold" on my permit.

    I have a very good attorney and I have tasked him with getting that permit back, but even he is getting stiffed so it looks like we go to court again.

    Does anyone know the law in Oregon well enough to know if the Sheriff has to, under law, give me that permit back, or does he have "discretion?" I've had the permit since the 70's and of course have a squeaky clean background.

    Does anyone know if the Sheriff can withhold that permit just because he wants to hassle me while I still have a clean record, and have met all of the requirements for the permit?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Welcome back gunner, I wondered where you went!

    According to ORS.166.291, and 166.293, no. Since Oregon is a "shall issue" state, the sheriff has to have just cause to deny you. If you have been exhibiting questionable behavior, or threatened someone with physical harm, yes, but otherwise no.
    But then again, I'm not a lawyer.
    I would ask the sheriff what grounds he is using for denial.
    http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html

    Legal opinion here: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/ShallIssue.htm#c5

    And here: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/LawRev/ShallIssue.htm#c36

    It sounds like abuse of police power(s) to me. According to OFF (referencing ORS166.291/.293), the sheriff can be held liable for any/all costs you incur in getting it back.
    There are time limits involved in petitioning the court however.
    Of course, we know how you feel about OFF after the David Pyles case gunner.

    It sounds like you are being denied by the the very folks you were defending not long ago.
    Good luck in your efforts.
     
  3. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Jamie. Yes, we've had some turnover within the ranks. :(

    I have done nothing which would stop me from having a CHL. I had it until I was served, but I won all cases outright and they are dismissed.

    As for asking the Sheriff, he stiffs me. He won't meet me, answer letters or emails - nothing. That's why I've put my attorney on it. I have a bulldog attorney and the DA and all LE hate to see him coming because he usually whips up on them.

    This is a "good ole boy" issue. These guys are teaching me to hate LEO's - an unfortunate thing.

    Thanks for the info about reimbursing me for my costs. I'll make sure my attorney knows that.

    Question: I seem to recall some threads about people getting their permits in counties they don't live in. Is that an option? I have a squeaky clean record and would qualify anywhere. If so, any suggestions? I do have some well established relatives in The Dalles who know and would introduce me to the sheriff there...

    Thanks!
     
  4. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    Oregon law states that it may only be revoked under the same rules needed to qualify getting it in the first place. A very good resource for this would be the book I bought, it covers this (revoking) as well as all gun laws, very usefull material. In reality I would think you could go to another county as your son in law has prejudiced the local agency against you.

    link to book.....Oregon Firearms Federation
     
  5. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Sorry for all the trouble. Sounds like some real rough waters you are in.

    I don't have time at the moment to cite a resource but if memory serves OR requires you to use your country sheriff. The only exception to that rule is out of state permits. Seems like if you move you have to re-apply even though it's a state permit :confused:

    Who does the sheriff report to? Is there an option to go over his head?. Maybe a call to the governors office is in order if there is an abuse of power. Maybe even Lars Larson?

    Hope it all turns out.
     
  6. Guymcdb

    Guymcdb Vancouver Wa Active Member

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    Sorry to hear this. Seems like abuse of power is a regular thing these days though. Don't give up, squeaky wheel gets the grease!
     
  7. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    Seems like the SIL is on shaky ground here. He has demonstrably filed a false police report, which is a crime. Should also be an ethics violation for a LEO, a firing offense I believe.

    The Good-Old-Boy/Abuse-of-Power situation is very difficult to deal with. I have a friend who got a divorce in Lane County, and the local cops are pals with her ex and his prominent family. She regularly gets the short end of the stick when it's necessary to call in law enforcement for custody enforcement, etc. When I mention the situation and the city to other LEOs they just roll their eyes and nod. There needs to be a way to get at these a-holes, and you're right, it colors my attitude about all LEOs.
     
  8. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Z3 beat me to the punch on the false report angle. Another venue might be through the NRA. Sounds to me like you have an excellent case for an abuse of power suit, and if you are a NRA member there is help available to you I believe. Good luck.
     
  9. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I'm just gathering info and everyone's added something good. My attorney is going after him but he specializes in criminal law, restraining orders and DUI's and he's very good at it. He got me off all three restraining orders without a trial even. He just went for depositions, "supoenas duces tecum", and dismissal motions, where he prevailed. He literally humiliated the complainants.

    I know there are some non-attorney folks here who know a lot so I'll bundle it all up and send him an email.

    I suppose he answers to the County Commissioners, but we are making this a legal matter for the court if the sheriff wants to push it that far once challenged.
     
  10. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we've already complained about the false police report to the city manager, the state police, and the city council. No sense in complaining to the PD, good ole boys club now.
     
  11. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    Ask you lawyer about a show cause order...
     
  12. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    You want me to beat his arse for you? He'll never see it coming, and he won't know what him!!



































    JUST KIDDING!!!! ;)


    Sorry to hear about your troubles, but hang in there! A-holes like that are COUNTING on you giving up from all the stone walling.
     
  13. evltwn

    evltwn Gold Hill Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Of course you are referring to Mike Winters...the same guy who is blowing off three separate Court decisions at the moment...I think he will re-name it Winters County and kick out the comissioners, as he is actly like a czar already.
     
  14. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that's it. It looks like it's going to take a court order to get it back. I'm just having trouble finding a Medford area attorney who knows this area of law, or who cares, for that matter. Many of them are libs and wonder why I even care. I did join OFF (shock) but they only know of a Portland atty. That's way too expensive if he has to travel for hearings.

    I'm working on it. I sent emails to several law firms today from their web sites, asking if they have someone who knows and cares about this area of law.

    Geez, I had a crazy relative file for restraining orders so they took my license on the spot. I outright beat the orders and it's all dismissed. I don't get it why I can't just walk in and get it back. ??
     
  15. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Nothing says you can't file for a motion yourself. Its not that hard, you can even ask one of the court clerks what hoops and forms you have to fill out to file a petition with the court. I did my own divorce papers waaaay back in the early 90's with the help of a paralegal office for $100 (filing with the court took another $150), perhaps that would work for you. ANYONE can file almost ANYTHING with the court for themselves, you just have to know which forms to fill in and submit.

    DON'T BE INTIMIDATED by it, lawyers have obfuscated the whole process (for job security), but anyone (with at least half a brain) and determination (like yourself) can navigate the waters... I did it a couple of times and prevailed. I even did the immigration paperwork for my Australian wife and three kids (now THAT was a thick packet of paperwork and pile of money!!), that most people pay specialists BIG BUCKS to do for them... and it even went through the first time submitted.

    :thumbup:
     
  16. PX4WA

    PX4WA Tacoma, WA Active Member

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    I'd say get local media/newspapers involved and sell them the angle of abuse of authority as it clearly is a case of abuse of power...

    also file a court motion to regain your rights...

    in WA they have 30 days to issue it unless they have just cause to deny it... not sure what OR laws mandate...

    can you apply from a different county?
     
  17. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Given his geographical local... (hippieville) involving the local media could backfire, and make him look bad to a judge since this isn't (I believe) a jury matter.
     
  18. Will_Power

    Will_Power OR via OK Active Member

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    Sorry to hear about your troubles, Gunner.

    For every instance of liberal hippie BS I hear about in Portland, it seems there's another episode of conservative good-ole-boys in the smaller towns.

    I'd echo what PX4 suggested. Not knowing the news and media down there, if there are some gun-rights affirming folks, it might make sense to go cause a ruckus that way, if all your bureaucratic channels start to get clogged or the sheriff continues to stonewall you.
     
  19. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Thanks folks. I don't even know what kind of motion to file. I guess I could file a suit for $2 million for violation of civil rights and get his attention, LOL. Seriously, I don't know - maybe a show cause order?

    I emailed several large local law firms today and asked if they have an attorney who is a firearms fan and who knows those laws who could help me. Maybe I'll get a lead on Tuesday.

    This is the good ole boys club at its worst. God, you'd think if they take your license (as they do) when you're served a restraining order, but you beat the case outright in court and can prove it, that they'd just give you another license. ORS says they can charge $10 for a "lost" card, and is explicit that once I have a card, I don't have to jump through the hoops with references, training, etc. again. I should just get another one since they punched mine full of holes. My fees are even paid for about 3 more years. I wouldn't argue about cost though if I can get the license. They told me another $50 which is illegal, but I'd be happy to pay it.

    Right now I'm open carrying because I won't go unarmed, and that's perfectly legal within the limits of government buildings, etc. Then I have to lock it in the car anyway.

    I think the sheriff will pay more attention to an attorney, if I can find one who's a 2A believer and who carries.
     
  20. Will_Power

    Will_Power OR via OK Active Member

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    I know Klamath Falls is far smaller than Medford and the cities around there, but I can't help but wonder if you might find a pro-gun rights lawyer over there who might be willing to hop across the mountains.