Put everything in the trust?

[Modeler]

Just a thought.....

With all the talk of bans to come, including a potential ban on transfers of existing non-NFA weapons, I'm thinking of creating a trust to own all my non-NFA weapons. Basically copy my current NFA trust with a different trust name. That way my heirs wouldn't have to surrender my weapons upon my death (assuming a worst-case scenario).

Thoughts?

PS - I posted this here because ya'll are already familiar with trusts....

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[drew]

I've thought of doing something similar. You might even be able to use the existing trust.

 

[OREGON FALER]

The impression I get of these trusts is, you can put anything you want into them. Aren't they just revocable living trusts?

 

[Modeler]

I've thought of doing something similar. You might even be able to use the existing trust.

I'm sure I could, but then I'd have to list the whole collection on the trust inventory every time I sent the trust in to the ATF for a new NFA item. Hence, the separate trust.

 

[iamme]

I'm sure I could, but then I'd have to list the whole collection on the trust inventory every time I sent the trust in to the ATF for a new NFA item. Hence, the separate trust.

Unless it changed ATF said you could redact the form of other items in trust provided it still lists th NFA items when submitting.
There could be no new ban or a ban could cover everything. Your looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Creating a will would do the same thing you're trying to achieve now with all likelihood. Only way it wouldn't is an all out ban, which having a trust would make no difference on.

 

[Nwcid]

You could also have an "Exhibit A" for your NFA stuff and an "Exhibit B" for non NFA stuff. Just send the NFA section in when doing NFA items.

 

[Stomper]

Unless it changed ATF said you could redact the form of other items in trust provided it still lists th NFA items when submitting.
There could be no new ban or a ban could cover everything. Your looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Creating a will would do the same thing you're trying to achieve now with all likelihood. Only way it wouldn't is an all out ban, which having a trust would make no difference on.

No beef with everything you said, except there IS a difference between what a will and a trust would do as far as keeping your property within the circle of people you want after your inevitable demise. Passing any NFA/regulated items to any heirs would require a transfer and the appropriate paperwork/approval and once your will has been properly processed and executed, it "ceases to exist".

A trust is legally an "individual" who's affairs and property are managed/used/enjoyed by listed trustees, and can continue in perpetuity with lines of succession designated by each generational executor of the trust, thus requiring no transfers... ever. The executor can add or remove anything they so wish to the list of assests, at any time, for any price.

You could also have an "Exhibit A" for your NFA stuff and an "Exhibit B" for non NFA stuff. Just send the NFA section in when doing NFA items.

^^^This^^^

 

[Modeler]

You could also have an "Exhibit A" for your NFA stuff and an "Exhibit B" for non NFA stuff. Just send the NFA section in when doing NFA items.

Yeah, that makes sense... For some reason I feel more comfortable having two trusts. Not sure why, can't put my finger on it. Just feels safer.

 

[iamme]

Just a thought.....

With all the talk of bans to come, including a potential ban on transfers of existing non-NFA weapons, I'm thinking of creating a trust to own all my non-NFA weapons. Basically copy my current NFA trust with a different trust name. That way my heirs wouldn't have to surrender my weapons upon my death (assuming a worst-case scenario).

Thoughts?

PS - I posted this here because ya'll are already familiar with trusts....

No beef with everything you said, except there IS a difference between what a will and a trust would do as far as keeping your property within the circle of people you want after your inevitable demise. Passing any NFA/regulated items to any heirs would require a transfer and the appropriate paperwork/approval and once your will has been properly processed and executed, it "ceases to exist".

A trust is legally an "individual" who's affairs and property are managed/used/enjoyed by listed trustees, and can continue in perpetuity with lines of succession designated by each generational executor of the trust, thus requiring no transfers... ever. The executor can add or remove anything they so wish to the list of assests, at any time, for any price.



^^^This^^^

So basically we agree and you missed this part (bolded above)?

 

[Dogfish]

My trust has two lists, NFA and non-NFA. Only the NFA part gets sent in with a request for a new form 4 item.

 

[Stomper]

So basically we agree and you missed this part (bolded above)?

No, I was saying that leaving your heirs the NFA stuff listed in a will (as you mentioned) is NOT the same, and would NOT accomplish the same thing. With a will, a NFA transfer/tax would still have to take place to the heir. With a Trust the stuff listed remains the property of the Trust, as the Trust is legally considered a "person", and that person never "dies", unless the living Trustor/Executive (could be the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. generation Trustor) either removes the NFA items from the Trust, or dissolves the Trust all together.

 

[Nwcid]

No, I was saying that leaving your heirs the NFA stuff listed in a will (as you mentioned) is NOT the same, and would NOT accomplish the same thing. With a will, a NFA transfer/tax would still have to take place to the heir. With a Trust the stuff listed remains the property of the Trust, as the Trust is legally considered a "person", and that person never "dies", unless the living Trustor/Executive (could be the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. generation Trustor) either removes the NFA items from the Trust, or dissolves the Trust all together.

There is NO transfer tax when transferring to an heir. Yes there will be the rest of the Form 4 though.

 

[Stomper]

You're right, but you wouldn't have to worry about a "ban on future transfers" with the Trust route as the rules are currently, yes?

 

[waltermitty]

A trust is legally an "individual" who's affairs and property are managed/used/enjoyed by listed trustees, and can continue in perpetuity with lines of succession designated by each generational executor of the trust, thus requiring no transfers... ever. The executor can add or remove anything they so wish to the list of assests, at any time, for any price.

if, as you have said a couple of times above, that the Trust is a 'person' then fingerprints and photos, plus CLEO signoff would have been required for Forms 1 and 4.

 

[Nwcid]

You're right, but you wouldn't have to worry about a "ban on future transfers" with the Trust route as the rules are currently, yes?

The way the law is written now yes that is correct. In the future that may not be the case and there is no way to know. Apparently in CA for their "AWB" even with a trust you can not pass on your registered guns.

There have even been a couple of recent threads on possible changes to "NFA trusts".