Portland Bans "Derelict" RV Sales

[Timbertodd]

Saw this story on KGW this morning. Due to homeless living in them the Portland city commissioners passed the law yesterday. So let me get this straight, regardless whether you have the title you cannot sell an rv in Portland if it needs restoration work? As far as people living in them and creating hazards due to dumping waste etc. whose fault is that Portland! When I told my wife, her response was they'll just live in tents and create the same mess. I cannot see where the city has the right to keep you from selling something you legally own. The news said there was a site you could bring the rv to for recycle, I'm sure at a cost. Just watch, the Portland brain trust will dump taxpayer dollars into said recycled rv's and put them back on the streets as lowcost housing. Aloha isn't far enough away from these fools.

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[edslhead]

Couldn't you just sell it outside the city?

 

[notazombie]

Wow, the geniuses at city hall just solved the homeless problem with a single piece of simple legislation. Kudos!

 

[Alexx1401]

Saw this story on KGW this morning. Due to homeless living in them the Portland city commissioners passed the law yesterday. So let me get this straight, regardless whether you have the title you cannot sell an rv in Portland if it needs restoration work? As far as people living in them and creating hazards due to dumping waste etc. whose fault is that Portland! When I told my wife, her response was they'll just live in tents and create the same mess. I cannot see where the city has the right to keep you from selling something you legally own. The news said there was a site you could bring the rv to for recycle, I'm sure at a cost. Just watch, the Portland brain trust will dump taxpayer dollars into said recycled rv's and put them back on the streets as lowcost housing. Aloha isn't far enough away from these fools.

As normal. Liberals make a mess. In this case allowing these things to be used as homeless camps. They could easily just tow the damn things but they "feel bad" doing that. So instead they pass another law. Like this is going to do anything.

 

[mkwerx]

There is a downside to towing them - the city does not actually tow anything. They contract with private tow companies. Those companies get zero compensation from the city. They only get paid when a vehicle owner retrieves the vehicle or it sells at auction. When I towed for a company which did impounds only 1/3 of vehicles taken in ever got paid for. The other 2/3 were either drug to a crusher or auctioned - usually at a loss given their condition and actual value. The tow company still has to pay equipment, labor, and insurance costs. In Portland prices are heavily regulated compared to outside Portland/Multco. A new strippo wrecker runs about $70,000 on the cheap side, a light duty flatbed is closer to 80, and the decent medium duty flatbeds *start* at $100,000. Insurance at the small outfit I last worked for - to insure 3 trucks and drivers was $15,000 / year. I watched a number of companies based in Portland go out of business because they relied too much on impounds.

No tow company or operator wants to haul those POS's away because they won't get paid. If the city actually paid the impound fees it'd be different.

FYI the city of Beaverton took the right away from BPD to tow abandoned vehicles - the mayor is sympathetic to the RV fleet. Cops can still ticket but not tow. Thats why you see so many of the damn things in B town too, but not so much in Hillsboro or other cities in WashCo.

 

[clearconscience]

They just go to an auction and buy them from the tow companies for a couple hundred bucks

 

[mkwerx]

They just go to an auction and buy them from the tow companies for a couple hundred bucks

Yeah essentially buying back their seized rvs. For those in the Beaverton area, cruise down 167th Ave south of Cornell some time. Its lined with professional office complexes, a school, and the HQ for Beav School Dist's transportation department. And half a dozen permanent RV dwellers and some I suspect are box van dwellers. Vehicles that have not moved in months or in a couple cases well over a year. One guy has made an awning from blue tarps off his RV. Go up Twin Oaks and see a few more rigs that never move.

I have talked to a few of these folk before. They *like* living that way. More of their Welfare, SSI or SS checks to spend elsewhere instead of paying rent or bills. Most don't keep up on mechanical function so once parked most need a tow truck to move again. On one hand its sad to see people living like that. The other infuriating because they are creating a big mess, and pose public health and safety risks. Portlandia at its best...

 

[Alexx1401]

There is a downside to towing them - the city does not actually tow anything. They contract with private tow companies. Those companies get zero compensation from the city. They only get paid when a vehicle owner retrieves the vehicle or it sells at auction. When I towed for a company which did impounds only 1/3 of vehicles taken in ever got paid for. The other 2/3 were either drug to a crusher or auctioned - usually at a loss given their condition and actual value. The tow company still has to pay equipment, labor, and insurance costs. In Portland prices are heavily regulated compared to outside Portland/Multco. A new strippo wrecker runs about $70,000 on the cheap side, a light duty flatbed is closer to 80, and the decent medium duty flatbeds *start* at $100,000. Insurance at the small outfit I last worked for - to insure 3 trucks and drivers was $15,000 / year. I watched a number of companies based in Portland go out of business because they relied too much on impounds.

No tow company or operator wants to haul those POS's away because they won't get paid. If the city actually paid the impound fees it'd be different.

FYI the city of Beaverton took the right away from BPD to tow abandoned vehicles - the mayor is sympathetic to the RV fleet. Cops can still ticket but not tow. Thats why you see so many of the damn things in B town too, but not so much in Hillsboro or other cities in WashCo.

 

[Alexx1401]

Every city I have ever lived in had a contract with someone to tow vehicles left on the street. These were put out to bid and people would go after the contract. I find it real hard to believe the towing companies who go after these contracts do it to lose money. If that was the case no one would bid the contract. Big cities started protecting these homeless dens because they "felt bad". If they started towing them away it would take very little time before there were none to be seen. The people living in them are not fools. If they know their "home" will be taken they will park somewhere else.

 

[mkwerx]

Every city I have ever lived in had a contract with someone to tow vehicles left on the street. These were put out to bid and people would go after the contract. I find it real hard to believe the towing companies who go after these contracts do it to lose money. If that was the case no one would bid the contract. Big cities started protecting these homeless dens because they "felt bad". If they started towing them away it would take very little time before there were none to be seen. The people living in them are not fools. If they know their "home" will be taken they will park somewhere else.

The towing companies go for the contracts for the *accident* tows but no city I know of uses different contracts for accidents vs impounds. Accident rates are the highest. Police ordered impounds are the 2nd highest, PPI (private property impound) next usually followed by retail (out of pocket) rates then lasty autoclub rates. Example - a bit out of date but still good - accident rates in Washington County when I was tiwing was $170 for the hookup, $5 per towed mile, $120 / hour in labor (scene cleanup, extrication, etc) plus $35 a day for outside uncovered storage and $40 a day for inside secure storage plus a $40 after hours (between 5PM and 6AM mon thru fri and all day on weekends) gate fee, plus any misc consumables like fire extinguisher use, per item road flares etc. A police impound tow was only $100 to hook. My companies PPI hook was $90 and 4.50 / mile.

Of those 1/3 cars I mentioned that were ever picked up - most of those were newer cars that were in an accident and had full coverage or an outstanding auto loan or was a late model car taken by ppi or police ordered impound. The others were a mix of runners and disableds plus accidents where the car was uninsured. No one claims uninsured, wrecked cars. Few claimed disabled abandoned cars.

The owners gambled that the 1/3 of the rigs brought in and paid for would subsidize those that did not. Realistically its a wash or only small profit if any. Requirements here for an impound contract dictate a minimum of 2 trucks available at all times on all days, a fenced storage lot capable of storing a minimum of 20 cars, plus record keeping etc. All that costs money. A lot of it. And there are the daily/weekly costs of leining vehicles, insuring the lot, security systems etc. The reason so many companies went under is tge owners were still living in "the good old days" pre 9/11 when the numbers were different and the economy was humming. Expenses increased while revenues have not dramatically. Consider the bulk of most towing businesses make their bread and butter running autoclub calls not impounds and accidents the potential $$$$ per call is real appealing. The best accident I remember getting paid on had a bill over $1200 between the tow and storage. It took about 3 hours of my time start to finish and sat in our indoor secured bays for a while whilest the insurance hemmed and hawed over what to do with it. My commission rate was 32% and my boss paid commission on storage (a rarity in that industry) - so I took in about $400 personally. Compare that to the best autoclub tow I ever did - Portland to Boise - about 420+ miles. Took a day and a half round trip because of the DOT hour limits, and we burned almost 90 gallons of diesel round trip. This was in 2007 and IIRC diesel was about $3/gal. Total revenue was $1600 on that one. Those runs are rarer than sasquatch sightings. The average autoclub call generated about $40 if it needed a flatbed $30 if it was doable on a light duty wrecker. So the allure of the high dollar accident tows is why companies sign up to do police towing - not always realizing the costs of actually doing such till they are balls deep. And cities like Portland enforce their contracts hard. Years back here in the Pirtland area the owner of an outfit called NineTNine Towing died. His wife could not run the biz or find a buyer. She shut down operations - or tried - the city of Portland refused to release the company from its rotation duties even for going out of business. She had to retain a few employees and trucks and their lot until the expiration date. So if you get into it, discover you are loosing your shirt and want out - you are stuck.

Can it be profitable? Sure. But its a damn hard business to be profitable in right now at least in this area. Regulations are constantly changing and more cities are looking at price caps for certain types of tows. City of Portland itself IIRC has a $100 impound and the tower cannot charge for mileage unless its more than 10. Thanks to the min wage hikes a typical towing company needs to generate about $60 per hour average break even with minimum wage employees. $80 to $100 / hr to pay them decently and make a small profit. IF you are impounding a lot, and get paid for them all you and your employees will be flush with cash. BUT if it takes dragging in 3 to get paid on 1 you are taking it in the balls and are in many cases better off running autoclub and insurance runs instead. And thats not even getting into the reputation side of things - prolific impound towers are generally despised. Makes getting the decent paying retail work hard. So you wind up doing lots of autoclub or other cheap wholesale account work. My last employer did not do nonconsentual work and we focused on building a repeat clientele. Not doing impounds saved a couple thousand per month in rent and insurance.

So for the TLR crowd - towing off the crapwagon RVs is likely costing private companies a good chunk of change in most places that they will not recoup. A better solution would be police getting tough on these groups and doing everything they can to make the homeless not want to be there. And cities having the fortitude to enforce their own codes against nuisance/abandoned vehicles. That does not solve the underlying problem BUT would keep the problem children moving and not trying to resettle in corporate parks, store parking lots or neighborhood streets. I am surprised none of the dogooder soft hearts in Portland has floated a Dignity Village type RV park...i vote to put it next door to Mayor Wheeler's place or Gov Brown's. Or maybe in the parking lot of the local ACLU or Democrat party office...

 

[Alexx1401]

The towing companies go for the contracts for the *accident* tows but no city I know of uses different contracts for accidents vs impounds....

Tacoma has contract for pick ups of cars the city inspector wants gone. When I lived in Tucson they had the same. When I lived on Vashon King County had one with one tow Co for this. When I was in Phoenix they put it out for one for this. I have to guess all of these are the ones no one ever heard of.

 

[mkwerx]

Tacoma has contract for pick ups of cars the city inspector wants gone. When I lived in Tucson they had the same. When I lived on Vashon King County had one with one tow Co for this. When I was in Phoenix they put it out for one for this. I have to guess all of these are the ones no one ever heard of.

City inspector is different agency than the police, no? In most places its the police that handle abandons but some places have seperate code enforcement agencies that get the task. Some have seperate parking enforcement of course. Portland has their metermaid corp but Hillsboro's parking nazis are part of the police department as are their code enforcement people. In every city I know of locally except Beaverton its the police / sheriff that handles abandoned vehicles and nuisance parking.

If the doofuses in charge of such matters actually wanted to enforce the law it would be easy. Few of the rigs I see daily have valid registration, they usually have flat tires or are otherwise unroadworthy. But if people are occupying them actually having them hauled off can be difficult. Can't impound an occupied vehicle, tow guy can't force the occupants out and if the cops come and do it, a big part of the problem remains - where do the homeless go, especially when their shelter is hauled to the impound lot? Bed down in the bushes by where they parked? Wander the streets? There really is not a readily apparent good, legal solution to unless the people voluntarily move along, go to a shelter (if available) or the cops have reason to arrest or take the people in for psych evals.

So long as government tolerates it and these people are allowed to panhandle or get gov't assistance checks, they will stay.

 

[jbett98]

Not in Lake Oswego they won't.

 

[mkwerx]

Not in Lake Oswego they won't.

LOPD doesn't put up with anything especially vagrants. Too much $$ in town. More cities should take that approach...