Poll: Poll for LEOs

[Atroxus]

Another thread got me thinking. If someone tried to start confiscating guns illegally again like post Katrina, how many LEOs would go along with an illegal order from their superior, and how many would balk.


Ugh I mispelled citizen in the poll question. Is there any way to edit that?

PS Riot any chance you could repost this poll on that LEO only board you use and then get back to us with the results?

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[Trlsmn]

A poll on a site asking a question of law enforcement only (probably .001 percent of our membership) but open to our 7000 other members? What could go wrong?

 

[Atroxus]

A poll on a site asking a question of law enforcement only (probably .001 percent of our membership) but open to our 7000 other members? What could go wrong?

Hmm, I had gotten the impression from other posts that we had a pretty large number of LEOs using this forum. <shrug> If not I suppose this just won't get many if any votes.

 

[2zuks]

It would be interesting to see results of such a poll. I would hope that officers would do what's ride and uphold the constitution.

 

[The B]

Hmm, I had gotten the impression from other posts that we had a pretty large number of LEOs using this forum. <shrug> If not I suppose this just won't get many if any votes.

i'm sure they come check this board out often enough, and quickly move on after a once-over of the "off topic" subforum.

 

[wichaka]

Before I get started, here's my disclaimer.

This thread was posted to ask a question, I will therefore answer it. My answer is based on facts, circumstances, experience etc., which in turn forms my opinion. It is my opinion, therefore no one has any right to get angry over my opinion or disagree with it. Anyone can ask clarifying questions as to why I hold the opinion I do, and that is fine by me.

But be forewarned, leave the flaming, attacks, and cheap seat comments to yourself.

Alrighty, I voted "Other" with the reason being, there are too many variables to just say "No I won't do it."

Across the board, could I just outright confiscate firearms, no.

Could I confiscate them if they belong to illegals, gang members etc., yep, and would sleep well at night knowing that I did.

I made a statement sometime ago, that I got blasted for and I'll say it again. Some people just don't need to have firearms. Goes hand in hand with Clint Smiths comment, "Some people just need to be shot..." If we all look within ourselves, me thinks most everyone will think the same.

Now I know the comment will come "Just who makes that decision of who should and shouldn't own them." Its a case by case thing. Like I said above illegals, gang members etc., should not have them, and I'm sure there may be other types that don't need them either.

Go out drunk, act stupid/dangerous etc. with them, and shoot, they should have theirs taken as well.
Reminds me of the lyrics of the Lynyrd Skynyrd song "Saturday Night Special" and I quote;
"....and if you like to drink your whiskey you might even shoot yourself,
So why don't we dump 'em people,
to the bottom of the sea,
before some fool come around here,
wanna shoot either you or me."

Owning a firearm comes with responsibility, not just to others but to yourself as well.

 

[parsons_12b]

WIchaka I could not agree with you more. Im not a LEO but I am a Soldier so this is something I have thought about. It is my belief that every law abiding citizen should be aloud to own whatever firearms they want. When you cross that line and become a criminal that right is no longer yours.

 

[Atroxus]

Wichaka, I can respect your answer. I do agree that illegals, and felons should not be allowed to have guns. My question though was would you confiscate guns from law abiding citizens if ordered to do so. For example if you were told to go door to door in your home town and confiscate every gun from every house.

 

[wichaka]

No, I would not go door to door and confiscate guns from law abiding citizens if ordered to do so.

This question was raised in the circle of firearms instructors etc., I run with. But not only the question of confiscation, but if ammo limits were placed upon citizens. The answer still remained a flat NO.

Beware though, there are many sheep amongst the sheepdogs and they are hard to tell apart at times. But if pressed, will easily shed the costume.

As to your comment about felons, that goes without saying so I did not mention them specifically.

 

[ZeroRing]

Ugh I mispelled citizen in the poll question. Is there any way to edit that?

Fixed.

Interesting topic.

 

[Cougfan2]

This kind of falls in line with what the Oath Keepers are doing.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

 

[THC101]

Could I confiscate them if they belong to illegals, gang members etc., yep, and would sleep well at night knowing that I did.

When you cross that line and become a criminal that right is no longer yours.

How would the soldier doing the grunt work know that the intelligence received on these alleged thugs are correct?

I can understand the idea of taking illegal aliens guns, gang members, etc. But how much do the guys who are doing the dirty work really know about the people they are apprehending, aside from what they are told and 'briefed' on before certain missions.

I think that we've got some highly trained patriots in every corner of our country, who if told in THAT context would never take the guns of the people and stand by our constitution

But I also know from history and current events: all you have to do is label somebody as something evil (gang members, illegals, cons, terrorists), and you've got everyone willing to take who ever 'they' are out. regardless of the facts..

because after all who wouldn't want to disarm 'criminals'?

and right now in the media they are trying hard to vilify any groups who disagree with the government, gun rights groups, local militias, etc..


So to sum this up, i dont think our guys would outright take guns, but i think our guys could be convinced that they are doing a good thing for their country in doing so.

 

[The B]

i have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that a God-given, Constitutionally-protected right can be permanently stripped of a person who's otherwise served his sentence. can somebody show me where in the Constitution this provision exists? what do you think would happen if you tried to permanently strip the 4th amendment from a person, or the 1st, or 5th, etc... in my mind, the 8th actually prohibits a punishment like this, all by itself. denying a man the right to defend his family, his home, himself, for the rest of his life. that's not cruel?

furthermore, being 2A supporters that we all are- i wonder how anybody can think a ban on guns in any form is OK. since we all know and proclaim that gun bans never work, and only criminalizes the "good guys," we should also fully acknowledge that felon gun bans only do the exact same. "bad" felons will still own guns- it's only law-abiding felons, the people who voluntarily follow BS laws, and therefor are extremely, overwhelmingly unlikely to re-offend, that deny themselves the right.

if i were a felon, you wouldn't find me without an unregistered machinegun close at hand. what do i have to lose? my second amendment? thats the most important right i have.

 

[MountainBear]

Another important aspect of this would be officer safety. I'm not sure how I would have handled this back when I was a LEO or how I would handle it if I am a LEO again. But I would have significant questions to my superiors regarding the safety of myself and my fellow officers going door to door trying to confiscate firearms. I am not sure what the percentage of law-abiding citizens who would actually give up their firearms without a fight, but even a few people willing to shoot it out per city would make it an unacceptable risk.

 

[wichaka]

I do not believe a nation wide confiscation would ever happen, there's too many firearms out there, not feasible. So I think all this talk is moot.

But should it happen on a case basis, such as Katrina...one would have to poll those in your jurisdiction to see how they feel about it.

The Katrina debacle just goes to show how many sheep are running with the sheepdogs. We all know who they are, as they fold like lawn chairs at the hint of confrontation. They may talk a big line, but they are easy to pick out from their useless jaw jacking. I separate myself from these types, I have no use for them...as they are a drain on the profession.

In my opinion, should it happen in my jurisdiction it would be a house by house decision. I know where the types that shouldn't have guns live, I also know the folks who would stand with me should some natural disaster strike as well.

Sad to say but every jurisdiction will be different on the subject.

 

[Atroxus]

i have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that a God-given, Constitutionally-protected right can be permanently stripped of a person who's otherwise served his sentence. can somebody show me where in the Constitution this provision exists? what do you think would happen if you tried to permanently strip the 4th amendment from a person, or the 1st, or 5th, etc... in my mind, the 8th actually prohibits a punishment like this, all by itself. denying a man the right to defend his family, his home, himself, for the rest of his life. that's not cruel?

furthermore, being 2A supporters that we all are- i wonder how anybody can think a ban on guns in any form is OK. since we all know and proclaim that gun bans never work, and only criminalizes the "good guys," we should also fully acknowledge that felon gun bans only do the exact same. "bad" felons will still own guns- it's only law-abiding felons, the people who voluntarily follow BS laws, and therefor are extremely, overwhelmingly unlikely to re-offend, that deny themselves the right.

if i were a felon, you wouldn't find me without an unregistered machinegun close at hand. what do i have to lose? my second amendment? thats the most important right i have.

There is a process in place for felons to have their gun rights re-instated. However I do believe there are certain crimes that should automatically ban someone from gun ownership permanently with no reversals unless they can prove they were wrongly convicted. Rapists, murderers, or anyone that uses a gun in the commision of a felony IMHO has proven they can not, and never should be trusted with a firearm. Personally though I also think there should be a mandatory death penalty for murderers and rapists. Too many of them costing too much money in our prison systems in my opinion, but thats a topic for another thread.

I do not believe a nation wide confiscation would ever happen, there's too many firearms out there, not feasible. So I think all this talk is moot.

I don't really think we will ever see a nationwide confiscation. I do think it is possible if not very likely to see something like Katrina happen again at a city or county level. Thats primarily the reason I posted the poll.


PS Even though I know that the number of responses here are not even close to enough to be statistically relevant, I can't help but feel a little comfort that nobody has voted that they would just go along with orders no questions asked.

 

[wichaka]

The second option you allowed "I would refuse unless shown the legal basis for the confiscations." This would need some clarification, as "legal basis" is a bit broad.

Example; The Mayor, County Commissioners, Governor, Fed. Gov. etc. sign an emergency order to allow such a confiscation. This could be taken as the legal basis for which some would act. I would still feel it wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on, and would still disregard it. But I think you can see my point.

 

[aslinged]

Beware though, there are many sheep amongst the sheepdogs and they are hard to tell apart at times. But if pressed, will easily shed the costume.

Good point, I like it. But let's not forget the wolves disguised as sheepdogs either. Which is worse? Hard to say, but all three categories can be mistaken and/or dressed up as the other.

 

[Father of four]

How would the soldier doing the grunt work know that the intelligence received on these alleged thugs are correct?

I can understand the idea of taking illegal aliens guns, gang members, etc. But how much do the guys who are doing the dirty work really know about the people they are apprehending, aside from what they are told and 'briefed' on before certain missions.

I think that we've got some highly trained patriots in every corner of our country, who if told in THAT context would never take the guns of the people and stand by our constitution

But I also know from history and current events: all you have to do is label somebody as something evil (gang members, illegals, cons, terrorists), and you've got everyone willing to take who ever 'they' are out. regardless of the facts..

because after all who wouldn't want to disarm 'criminals'?

and right now in the media they are trying hard to vilify any groups who disagree with the government, gun rights groups, local militias, etc..


So to sum this up, i dont think our guys would outright take guns, but i think our guys could be convinced that they are doing a good thing for their country in doing so.

Great post!

 

[Father of four]

i have a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea that a God-given, Constitutionally-protected right can be permanently stripped of a person who's otherwise served his sentence. can somebody show me where in the Constitution this provision exists? what do you think would happen if you tried to permanently strip the 4th amendment from a person, or the 1st, or 5th, etc... in my mind, the 8th actually prohibits a punishment like this, all by itself. denying a man the right to defend his family, his home, himself, for the rest of his life. that's not cruel?

.

I live in Portland Oregon. In this city they have put a huge burden on my right to protect myself and my family. That is unless I ask them for their permission to carry concealed. If I choose not to but just open carry I cant have my gun loaded or even my clip loaded to put in my gun if I need to protect myself or my family. Where is my 2nd amendment? I can use my gun as a club?