Piecing equipment together

[Alan12013]

I'm just getting started in the hobby. I've been accumulating reloading equipment. The last items I'll buy will be the gun and the dies and any other cartridge specific items. I'm probably working with a great deal of biased information due to my various sources thus far... My question is whether any one has pieced together their dies from different manufacturers. I want to be able to precisely control seating depth of bullets and since I have no practical experience, from what I read, a forster micro adjuster die is what I need. I am unsure if I can do that with a lee bullet seater. After reading a Lee reloading book I am attracted to the Lee collet neck sizing die. So I'm wondering if I can use a Forster bullet seating die, a Lee collet neck sizing die, and I cant think of what the 3rd die would be for.

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[Alexx1401]

I'm just getting started in the hobby. I've been accumulating reloading equipment. The last items I'll buy will be the gun and the dies and any other cartridge specific items. I'm probably working with a great deal of biased information due to my various sources thus far... My question is whether any one has pieced together their dies from different manufacturers. I want to be able to precisely control seating depth of bullets and since I have no practical experience, from what I read, a forster micro adjuster die is what I need. I am unsure if I can do that with a lee bullet seater. After reading a Lee reloading book I am attracted to the Lee collet neck sizing die. So I'm wondering if I can use a Forster bullet seating die, a Lee collet neck sizing die, and I cant think of what the 3rd die would be for.

Most important here is what are you loading for? As in do you want to roll handgun ammo or rifle and what for? For handgun stuff it's a lot different than if you are wanting to load for a rifle. In rifle it depends on are you making ammo to have some fun at the range, or do you want to tweak a rifle to try to get Sub MOA groups?

 

[Alan12013]

Most important here is what are you loading for? As in do you want to roll handgun ammo or rifle and what for? For handgun stuff it's a lot different than if you are wanting to load for a rifle. In rifle it depends on are you making ammo to have some fun at the range, or do you want to tweak a rifle to try to get Sub MOA groups?

I want to do precision bench shooting. I'm not trying to do competition or anything, I just want something to do. I feel that I can consume time measuring groups, adjusting bullet seating and various powder/primer combos and amounts. It will probably be a 22-250, 243, or 270 but keeping options open at this time. Goal is to be ready to roll by summer. I'll just head out to the range by myself or with my daughter and just sit and shoot. It would be nice to reload rounds for target shooting and some for hunting to have on hand just in case I decide to do that.

 

[Alexx1401]

I want to do precision bench shooting. I'm not trying to do competition or anything, I just want something to do. I feel that I can consume time measuring groups, adjusting bullet seating and various powder/primer combos and amounts. It will probably be a 22-250, 243, or 270 but keeping options open at this time. Goal is to be ready to roll by summer. I'll just head out to the range by myself or with my daughter and just sit and shoot. It would be nice to reload rounds for target shooting and some for hunting to have on hand just in case I decide to do that.

OK, that makes a huge difference. Bench Rest or any kind of super precision gets into some impressive control on everything. Not my thing so have no clue but sure others here will know. Have seen a little of it done and the end results were sure impressive. Hope you enjoy it when you get to making some ammo!!

 

[DizzyJ]

Here's what I've ended up with after years of reloading precision rifle Ammo.

Forster full length sizing die (but have used RCBS full length sizing dies for years).

Forster micrometer bullet seating die.

Gauges... You'll want neck thickness runout and concentricity gauges to measure cartridge run out.

Get a good quality inside/outside neck chamfering tool. Shaving off copper from the end of the bullet will do all kinds of bad things to your accuracy.

Accurate scale.

High quality brass.

High quality Bullets.

Fully lubricate the outside of the case and the INSIDE of the neck! Pulling an expander ball/button (if this is the method you use) back through a poorly lubricated neck will play HELL on runout (one of your worst enemies when it comes to precision Ammo and accuracy).

There are variations to all of this, but without going down rabbit holes, it's a good start.

 

[Tilos]

I want to do precision bench shooting. I'm not trying to do competition or anything, I just want something to do. I feel that I can consume time measuring groups, adjusting bullet seating and various powder/primer combos and amounts. It will probably be a 22-250, 243, or 270 but keeping options open at this time. Goal is to be ready to roll by summer. I'll just head out to the range by myself or with my daughter and just sit and shoot. It would be nice to reload rounds for target shooting and some for hunting to have on hand just in case I decide to do that.

Are you planning to load at home or at the bench/range?

 

[CLT65]

How good of a marksman are you? Are you just getting started in shooting or reloading?

My experience has been that expensive, extreme precision equipment is wasted on most of us. I have a couple rifles that are capable of better accuracy than I am, I suspect. I can reliably shoot 1moa with a good rifle and load, and there was a time when I practiced enough that I could shoot 1/2 moa groups often enough to know it was more than just luck. I've never owned any micrometer seaters or such.

Nothing wrong with really nice tools, nothing at all especially if you're willing to put the time and effort into really understanding the process, developing the right load for the rifle, and really getting into marksmanship.

I guess what I mean to say is that sometimes a person is better off just getting started with basic equipment to really learn the process, then progress on to nicer tools as you learn and understand what really suits you best.

That said, I have used the Lee collet dies. I like them, and they've worked great for me for both sizing and seating. I remember one afternoon at the range years ago when everything was just right and I was able to shoot 1" groups at 200 yards using the old 30-06 with decent consistency. For the hardcore marksmen here I know that's not terribly impressive, but for me it's the best I've ever done, and for that rifle I use the Lee collet dies.

 

[Alan12013]

Dizzy, I see you're using a FL sizing die, is that what you prefer over the neck sizing dies? I've read that fireforming isn't a must for accuracy and a FL die can work great. I am still confused about which gauges to buy but will get them as soon as I find out what I will need. My other question to you would be, considering cost here... Could I buy the Forster bullet seating die like you have by itself (not in a set) then buy a Lee Collet neck adjusting die or FL die by itself even though they are different brands? I'd be using a Lee press and am unsure of compatibility. Also there's a lot of talk about sending dies in or buying special bushings and whathaveyou, can't I just buy a neck sizing die for my cartridge and call it good?

I have very little experience shooting centerfires outside the military. I do shoot airguns often and do well even at 50 to 100 yards. I will be reloading at home only. I know what you mean by sometimes having all these extras that are overkill, this is in my mind as well which is why I am trying to go budget minded here where I can (example:figured I don't need a powder dispenser or trickler if I have a good scale). It's almost that I want to shoot to support my reloading hobby. So to address your one point, for me this project is more about the process of learning all the variables that go into marksmanship more then it is fun at the range or field. I might not like it or I might, not sure yet. Perhaps I don't know what to ask and wont until I start reloading. I've read a bit and watched videos and still have no idea what the process is to reload a cartridge regarding to step 1, step 2, etc I don't even know how many items are involved, from what I understand you can use 2 dies, a bullet seater and a neck sizer and keep a FL handy. I am also confused as to what a bushing is and if that is needed with the lee neck sizing dies or just the other brands. My main concern/ question is whether or not a Lee Collet die set would allow me to control the same variables as precise as a forster or redding with the micro adjusters. I feel like I'll buy the lee but then realize I can only seat the bullet within a larger threshold then the others and will not be able to adjust it accurately to the length. I read about people seating .07 (random number not sure actual distance) off the lands for one batch, then .08 for another so if some one wanted to do that then go OCD and continue to make test batches at tight increments whether they'd need the more expensive dies or if they can use the Collet set. I've read Modern Reloading second edition by Richard Lee and watched several videos. I'd like to find a website or something that explains to me the steps of reloading to where I can understand bit better.

 

[CLT65]

In general, yes it's fine to mix die sets. A sizer die does its job and a seater does its job, and its doesn't really matter if they're different brands. For your purposes though, I really don't think you "need" the micrometer seater die, at all. You'll do fine with a regular die set, unless you just want it. Nothing wrong with that either.

Bushing sizer dies are another specialized type that I wouldn't recommend for beginners.

I get the feeling that you might be trying to start off too fast. You might consider starting off simple and learn the process to understand what you need or want.

 

[Alan12013]

In general, yes it's fine to mix die sets. A sizer die does its job and a seater does its job, and its doesn't really matter if they're different brands. For your purposes though, I really don't think you "need" the micrometer seater die, at all. You'll do fine with a regular die set, unless you just want it. Nothing wrong with that either.

Bushing sizer dies are another specialized type that I wouldn't recommend for beginners.

I get the feeling that you might be trying to start off too fast. You might consider starting off simple and learn the process to understand what you need or want.

I probably am trying to go 0-1000 off the bat but I think it's in part due to my confusion. Basically you just answered my question though, especially considering the cost between the Lee Collet die set and some of the others. It seems like I can get the lee set, save money (that can be spent on bullets, etc), and still be able to control the seating depth to the extent I can load one lot at a certain bullet depth and another lot at a slightly different depth using the same die, just adjusted to a different size. Worst case scenario when the time comes if I want a different die I can just buy it as an individual die and keep the other Lee dies.

 

[DizzyJ]

The thing I like about the Forster and other competition seating dies, is that they have a sleeve that holds the bullet in perfect alignment while it's being seated. The lower end dies don't have this feature, and runout can be an issue with the lower end bullet seating dies. This is why I recommended it for precision loading. The extra money is more than worth it IMO.

Yes you can mix and match dies from different manufacturers.

The neck sizing die only is nice but what most people don't realize is that there needs to be brass prep (neck turning) or case sorting in order to get full benefit from this method.

You'll find arguments all over the net on neck only sizing vs full length sizing.

At this point I've settled on full length resizing each time as I don't want to get into the whole neck turning thing right now.

I'd recommend you continue to learn about the steps of reloading, and what each step accomplishes. Then you'll be able to move on to the more specialized processes that will allow you to wring the most accuracy possible out of your ammo.

After you've got the basics down, I'd highly recommend this book for you to go through. It's well written and there's a ton of excellent info to be gleaned from it.
https://www.amazon.com/Metallic-Cartridge-Handloading-Pursuit-Perfect/dp/1571573712

 

[DizzyJ]

How good of a marksman are you? Are you just getting started in shooting or reloading?

My experience has been that expensive, extreme precision equipment is wasted on most of us. I have a couple rifles that are capable of better accuracy than I am, I suspect. I can reliably shoot 1moa with a good rifle and load, and there was a time when I practiced enough that I could shoot 1/2 moa groups often enough to know it was more than just luck. I've never owned any micrometer seaters or such.

Nothing wrong with really nice tools, nothing at all especially if you're willing to put the time and effort into really understanding the process, developing the right load for the rifle, and really getting into marksmanship.

I guess what I mean to say is that sometimes a person is better off just getting started with basic equipment to really learn the process, then progress on to nicer tools as you learn and understand what really suits you best.

That said, I have used the Lee collet dies. I like them, and they've worked great for me for both sizing and seating. I remember one afternoon at the range years ago when everything was just right and I was able to shoot 1" groups at 200 yards using the old 30-06 with decent consistency. For the hardcore marksmen here I know that's not terribly impressive, but for me it's the best I've ever done, and for that rifle I use the Lee collet dies.

That's more than respectable accuracy and shooting ability.

 

[jordanka16]

A micrometer seater is what you want for precise control of seating depth, the sizing die is not as important, but a 2 die set is more convenient so I would just buy the forster set, it will get you where you want to go for not much more than standard dies. Like a $70-$80 difference over regular dies generally, that's only a few boxes of bullets, not that much.

For sure I would go with FL sizing. If you neck size you will have to body size eventually anyway, and FL sizing correctly, by just bumping the shoulder by 1 or 2 thousandths, will still give you excellent accuracy and case life, and give you a more reliable weapon.

 

[CLT65]

I remember a poster my cousin had in his garage many years ago. He was heavily into competitive bicycling. The poster was of an obese individual standing next to a high-end bicycle. The caption was something like "By adding titanium alloy shift levers and lightweight aluminum Schneider valve caps, I was able to shave 1.7 ounces off of my $5k racing bike".

From a practical perspective I think spending a bunch of money on high end reloading tools before you have the experience and some marksmanship abilities is a bit like this. Unless of course you have the money and just really like nice stuff. In that case go for it.

 

[Alan12013]

I remember a poster my cousin had in his garage many years ago. He was heavily into competitive bicycling. The poster was of an obese individual standing next to a high-end bicycle. The caption was something like "By adding titanium alloy shift levers and lightweight aluminum Schneider valve caps, I was able to shave 1.7 ounces off of my $5k racing bike".

From a practical perspective I think spending a bunch of money on high end reloading tools before you have the experience and some marksmanship abilities is a bit like this. Unless of course you have the money and just really like nice stuff. In that case go for it.

First off, that is hilarious. Second, I understand that. I'm cutting corners where I think I can such as not needing the most expensive press or powder dispenser. Maybe after a few years I can spoil myself with better equipment for what I want. What I'm being a bit picky about now is the ability to control the variables that I want to experiment with, particularly bullet seating depth. From the sounds of it though if I were to make 3 different load sets for testing, each of a different length in relation to the lands of the rifle, in practical increments, I could get away with a lee collet die and don't necessarily have to get the "micro adjusting" die sets.

 

[CLT65]

Don't get me wrong; the micrometer seating dies are really nice, and there's nothing wrong with having one. If I had kept up practicing bench rest type shooting I would have spent the money on some nicer tools by now for sure. I'd love to have a bunch of really nice precision tools.

On the other hand I've never had any trouble adjusting bullet seating depth precisely with regular dies. The micrometer die allows for easier repeatability of fine adjustment, but the regular die will also do what you're wanting it to do just fine.

Everyone does things a little different, and those that say you should buy top end tools are not necessarily wrong. I'm just saying that a relatively very few people and very few rifles are capable of the level of accuracy that those tools can affect.

Another suggestion might be to find someone nearby who could walk you through the process of reloading before you get started. I don't claim to know it all by any means, but I have been reloading rifle ammo for over 30 years. If you're interested in making a 45 minute drive south I'd offer to meet up with you sometime at the range where I'm a member, and bring my portable reloading setup.

 

[Member 34319]

I've been reloading for roughly 8 years. I load more for bulk than precision. I do some precision reloading, here is my thoughts on the matter.

I primarily use Hornady and RCBS dies. An occasional Lee in there. My progressive has a mix of RCBS and Hornady to load 9mm. I find RCBS does some functions better than the Hornady and vise verse.

When I stepped into the precision world to get out to 1000 with my 308 I did so using traditional dies. Nothing competition or precision based here. I was able to use regular dies to get a load that would group at 1.25" at 200 yards and let me group 10"-15" at 1000.

I no longer load or shoot 308, but I still load 223 for precision. I used regular dies and just measured a lot. I feel that the fancier die sets just help with measurable factors more. I was able to find a good combination of brass, bullets, powder charge, etc that was able to get .5" groups or better at 100 yards with a Remington 700 I owned. I have since replaced that rifle with a lighter Ruger American and I'm starting the process all over to find a good combo for this rifle. I feel that it is all about trial and failure. Sure fancy dies can assist, but I do not feel the are necessary.

I will agree with @DizzyJ in regards to the bullet seating die that has a sleeve to align the bullet whilst seating. Though Hornady dies have this at a much lower price than the Forster.

It is best you go at your own pace, figure out what works best for you. If you don't want to spend a whole lot, try a simple set of dies first, you can always upgrade later. It never hurts to have multiple sets of dies for a single caliber. I have 4 just for 9mm alone.

 

[Alan12013]

I don't think I want to do the neck turning and all that's involved with neck only sizing right now then, plus the information I'm getting doesn't make it seem like it would offer much improvement over full length sizing. I do plan on measuring a lot. Good info on the sleeve, will keep my eye out for that when I decide on a cartridge/caliber. I remember reading something about that, I think in a Lee book but could be mistaken, will have to check again.

 

[Member 5605]

Yes

 

[MrElectric03]

I just bought my first micrometer seater and it is very nice. I loaded for over six years using standard rcbs two die rifle sets though, for me the micrometer seater just sped things up.

For sizing, the collet dies are very nice but they seem to be being replaced by full length bushing dies. Meaning a die that full length sizes the brass but in the neck portion there is a replaceable bushing that can be changed to control your neck tension. I use these for hunting rounds and may just get one for my .308 target rifle as well. Like other have said, if you do neck size you are going to have to full length size as well from time to time. I did a test with my .300 WM and saw no difference in consistency between the lee collet and Redding FL bushing die.

My opinion if you want to save money, but stuff used and on eBay. I have bought a ton of dies and stuff on eBay and pawn shops for great deals, it's not hard to tell if something was well taken care of or not.