Philando Castile & CPL/CHL & you.

[awshoot]

Right. So your advice is to bow to authority and when I say that's mighty Loyalist of you, you complain about that.

The fact is, that kid should not have been shot and a system in which that is possible is broken. You want people to trust and respect police? That's fair. But trust and respect is earned. If police feel their current tactics are unsafe and they must shoot unsuspecting motorists, the problem is not the motorists, it is the tactics.

If you aren't willing to change tactics, please, let us do the PSAs to make sure everyone is properly terrified of the police so innocent people don't get killed.

 

[No_Regerts]

You do realize there are approximately 1 million full-time commissioned law enforcement officers nationwide? That results in 2,088,000,000 or so hours of policing nationwide per year. On average, 900 to 1100 people are killed by police each year. Thats not an epidemic by any means. Especially when the vast majority of those incidents are completely justified.

 

[Alexx1401]

You do realize there are approximately 1 million full-time commissioned law enforcement officers nationwide? That results in 2,088,000,000 or so hours of policing nationwide per year. On average, 900 to 1100 people are killed by police each year. Thats not an epidemic by any means. Especially when the vast majority of those incidents are completely justified.

A LARGE percentage of the left, and sadly many on the "right" just have a hate on for Cops. There is no "reaching them" as it's a matter of "don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up". Probably many reasons for the haters. Many i'm sure have multiple "run ins" with LEO's. No doubt they tell everyone that each and every run in was them doing nothing wrong and some Cop had nothing better to do than screw with them. The one constant with people like this is when the Police are not around they are victims. As soon as they are they scream "where were the Cops". I know several agencies here are currently hiring. Co worker just got on with one of them with my help. Jobs pay fairly well, pay and benefits. Of course those with a hateon either are not qualified or just are not willing to put the work in to get the job.

 

[206thsense]

Philando's mother reached a 3 million dollar settlement to be paid by the city's insurance company. I am not sure if his girlfriend or her daughter will receive any of the money.

Philando Castile family reaches $3M settlement in death

Smart move by the city given the likelihood of losing in civil court would cost a lot more.

I hope the money is put into a managed trust for Castile's daughter.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Smart move by the city given the likelihood of losing in civil court would cost a lot more.

I hope the money is put into a managed trust for Castile's daughter.

Philando did not have a daughter. The little girl in the back seat was Diamond Reynolds, but Philando cared for her like she was his own when Diamond was working her two jobs.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

 

[American123]

Almost a 5 year old thread…

 

[Xaevian]

 

[Certaindeaf]

But what about everything else we shouldn't say? Lol.
I stopped caring about what that blowhard says when I was in high school.

 

[American123]

There should be a necromancer title for those that revive dead/old threads.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

I didn't watch the trial. Heck the dashcam video was not released until AFTER the trial so like most CHL holders I sided with Philando against the jumpy cop who mistakenly thought that he was pulling over an armed felon who just committed a robbery because the driver was black.

After watching the dashcam video, I thought it was a tie which goes to the house or the state in this case.

After watching the commentary from Mas, it is irrefutable that the officer was not at fault and Philando was an idiot.

What to do if you get pulled over while carrying - Critical Mas Episode 11

If you don't like Mas, you don't have to watch. I learned some new information from both videos so I updated the old thread instead of staring a new one.

 

[American123]

I didn't watch the trial. Heck the dashcam video was not released until AFTER the trial so like most CHL holders I sided with Philando against the jumpy cop who mistakenly thought that he was pulling over an armed felon who just committed a robbery because the driver was black.

After watching the dashcam video, I thought it was a tie which goes to the house or the state in this case.

After watching the commentary from Mas, it is irrefutable that the officer was not at fault and Philando was an idiot.

What to do if you get pulled over while carrying - Critical Mas Episode 11

If you don't like Mas, you don't have to watch. I learned some new information from both videos so I updated the old thread instead of staring a new one.

I didn't really follow this at the time, but what about the dash cam video makes it irrefutable the officer was not at fault? We can hear audio, but not really see what the officer saw. One thing I noticed is that as soon as Castille said "I have a firearm" the officer started to pull his gun.

Now I am no expert, but had Castile intended to use his gun, he likely would not have calmly informed the officer that he had it.

I think the cop was jumpy, personally, based on the dash cam. In my interactions with police, I never informed them I am carrying. Haven't been shot yet…

 

[Alexx1401]

LEO does seem "jumpy" but if I had that job I would too. I have not been pulled over in decades. Have had a couple interactions where I was broke down waiting for AAA. Both times armed. Both times when an LEO pulled up I already had both licenses in my hand. Both times waved off. Assuming they had run tags already. If I get stopped I will hand both licenses together and then let the LEO decide what they want. I heard him saying "DON'T reach for it before he fired. So I have to guess the FOOL decided he needed to go for the gun he had just told the LEO he had instead of waiting to be told what to do. I could EASILY see some scum telling the LEO he had a gun hoping to get the drop on him. I Have seen enough attempted shootings of LEO's to easily see some scum who is willing to shoot one try to fool the LEO into complacence. Bottom line if you have a permit, either say NOTHING until asked or hand the permit over with license. I "hear" some states require you to tell them when they stop you. If so fine. Tell them and keep your damn mitts on the wheel, not reaching for the damn gun.

 

[American123]

LEO does seem "jumpy" but if I had that job I would too. I have not been pulled over in decades. Have had a couple interactions where I was broke down waiting for AAA. Both times armed. Both times when an LEO pulled up I already had both licenses in my hand. Both times waved off. Assuming they had run tags already. If I get stopped I will hand both licenses together and then let the LEO decide what they want. I heard him saying "DON'T reach for it before he fired. So I have to guess the FOOL decided he needed to go for the gun he had just told the LEO he had instead of waiting to be told what to do. I could EASILY see some scum telling the LEO he had a gun hoping to get the drop on him. I Have seen enough attempted shootings of LEO's to easily see some scum who is willing to shoot one try to fool the LEO into complacence. Bottom line if you have a permit, either say NOTHING until asked or hand the permit over with license. I "hear" some states require you to tell them when they stop you. If so fine. Tell them and keep your damn mitts on the wheel, not reaching for the damn gun.

I thought if the cop was going to get shot it was going to be when he leaned his face almost into the car through the window, that seemed like primetime complacency kill zone opportunity. If the intent was to use the firearm against the cop, that would have been ample opportunity because his entire body positioning was imbalanced and would have not been able to react quickly.

They seemed to have a simple enough and polite exchange about the brake lights, then when prompted for paperwork, Castile says, "I have a firearm." The cop's hand goes immediately to his gun and starts the draw process while he is shouting "don't reach for it" repeatedly. They basically just went from 1 to 100 in intensity and from something that was designed to be beneficial, not alarming.

We can't see in the car to see what happened, but from my perspective the utterance of the words "I have a firearm" seemed to put the cop in a state of unreasonable panic and it appears that he may have been influenced by that panic.

I like to apply the notion of "if this were a civilian" to these situations, and would a civilian have been justified had they been in the similar circumstance. Based on what I can see and hear, I would say. "No."

Being a policeman is not a job I would want, and I do believe that it is important, but Castile was not seemingly exhibiting signs of any hostility, only compliance and courteousness.

I believe it was his courteousness that got him killed, because had he not informed the officer of the firearm, the ensuing panicked reaction would not have occurred.

My 2c

 

[Catfishmoon]

I noticed the recent video from Massad on YouTube a few days ago and watched it...
I support law enforcement and I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and I often watch videos from Mass and find him intelligent and articulate, but my reaction after watching this video was to click the "dislike" button. I thought he appeared to be acting more as a lawyer for this police officer than being an independent observer and commenter.
Massad has a background in law enforcement, he obviously supports law enforcement officers and I felt some of his comments showed he did not maintain impartiality in this instance...
He is entitled to his own opinion, but I came away feeling this was too much of a police officer automatically excusing the questionable actions of another police officer.

 

[biggie24420]

Ya in my opinion, it was a dirty shoot. Too many bad things fell in place and I feel the cop was at fault. Not knowing where the gun was then saying the suspect was reaching for it….. multiple shots fired ….. it just didn't seem legit.
I understand that it may take several shots to stop the threat, but I think 7 shots is totally questionable.

I showed the dash cam video to my GF, she was like…. Wow! That shooting was totally questionable and didn't seem right. And she is not into guns and tactical stuff. I mean she likes guns but not an addiction like the most of us lol but I digress.

 

[American123]

Ya in my opinion, it was a dirty shoot. Too many bad things fell in place and I feel the cop was at fault. Not knowing where the gun was then saying the suspect was reaching for it….. multiple shots fired ….. it just didn't seem legit.
I understand that it may take several shots to stop the threat, but I think 7 shots is totally questionable.

I showed the dash cam video to my GF, she was like…. Wow! That shooting was totally questionable and didn't seem right. And she is not into guns and tactical stuff. I mean she likes guns but not an addiction like the most of us lol but I digress.

Typically people unfamiliar with firearms say things like, "why didn't he just shoot him in the leg." I wouldn't equate her lack of interest in guns as anything relevant to determining a good or bad shoot, but yes, it did seem "jumpy."